Resto Shaman 4th golden trait.

[Gunwolf]

I think it's an incredibly boring and subpar trait as well. I was hoping for something more interesting. Just throwing some ideas out there, but how about a trait that spreads Riptide? It'd synergize well with Deluge and High Tide.

Ripple: Casting Chain Heal on a target affected by your Riptide causes your Riptide to spread to all targets affected by Chain Heal with the same remaining duration. Applying Riptide with Ripple does not refresh its duration.

If you want extra synergy, it can cast Riptide on each target hit by Chain Heal instead of simply applying the HoT of Riptide so it can benefit from Torrent. It'd make for a fun AoE healing playstyle.

That could work. I feel like we already got too many hots, and with the healing rain buff we will have good group hots (in a sense). If it gave the instant portion too that would feel more meaty, but perhaps too strong (tho I guess not much diff then 2x GotQ). Seems like something Shaman would have tho, I think Elem in the past had something like that for CL to spread flameshock so this could be healing version.

I still think if the gold trait was that the 2nd GotQ was applied as an absorb bubble instead of a heal it would be better. There would be no overheal and would apply instantly so no issue with the delay if people move out. This would be very useful for M+ or on melee groups. Only downside I can see is that you wouldn't get the double heals to charge CBT anymore. I would just like to see that absorb come back in some way..... they could also find some way for Riptide to apply an absorb, like if Riptide crits then u get an absorb (which would work well with the new tier set bonuses). Having GotQ apply absorbs seems bit better cause its guaranteed and u can apply to up to 6 people.

As for SWG... a small +healing buff would be good too along with the movement bonus. Someone mentioned that this may make it so people use it for a throughput cd.... but I think if its just a minor bonus, like 4-6% healing total for all 4 traits, then its not a huge deal and people will prob still wanna save SWG for movement stuff first anyways.

[Aleksej89]

It sucks that the Spirit Link totem seems more useful than the shaman himself.

Bringing utility cooldowns is great but it would also be nice to not suck as much in other departments.

[Deleted]

The lot of you have no clue of the value offered by the SWG trait either, it's the difference between covering one elisande ring and two. It's hugely beneficial, but not easily quantifiable until you've seen that content.

[Knockkout]

LOL to all the people saying you can't use GoTQ in M+ as a Rsham who does nothing but run M+, Sure some bosses on Tyrannical maybe you're forced to spam surges but these are few and far between. Otherwise the only reason your spamming is because someone is under geared, you have bad DPS, or someone isn't dealing with an affix/mechanic correctly. The beauty of GoTQ has little to do with the actual throughput and a lot to do with +10% HP which also stacks with Ancestral Vigor, the 4th trait extends the +10% to 9 seconds instead of just 6. You realize this means you can have +20% HP on a tank(+melee) for 10 seconds every 35 seconds ? That's a lot, on the guardian I run with it's about 1.5 Million HP, Show me another class that can do that? If used specifically for this purpose only it's worth it! Let alone the fact that it can be used in a pinch as a great AoE heal especially if you're an Orc and can amp it up with Blood Fury, also if you happen to have Velen's the healing can be distributed.

People's issue with GoTQ is that it doesn't have a clear defined use or home in a rotation, you must understand that it's Versatile and can be used in many different ways with many styles of healing, which likely will change depending on Content, Affix, and Group Composition. The days of playing a mindless Earthshield+Chain Heal Spam spec are over! I love the current rendition of RSham

[Nythiz]

LOL to all the people saying you can't use GoTQ in M+ as a Rsham who does nothing but run M+,

I don't think anyone is really saying this. It's really good if you use it at the right moments and the +10% HP is really solid as well if you know burst is coming up; but it's value is significantly lower in M+ if you look at healing throughput for a few reasons.


1) Less likely to hit everyone in 1 GotQ. A lot of times it can be done, but there are also times it can't. You'd be hard pressed to not find enough people clustered enough for a GotQ in a raid.
2) Long cast time makes it really tough to use in pressure situations.
3) The splash from the new trait is more likely to overheal, because it's hitting the same people as it did a few seconds ago. In a raid setting you're more likely to hit "fresh" people.

Granted, the new trait will have some value if you can predict damage.
If you know damage is coming up in a few seconds, you can cast this. Hit everyone with a heal + give them 10% HP and get another free heal right afterwards.

On top of that this trait is more expensive for M+ because the healing rain trait right before it doesn't sweeten the deal as much in M+ as it does for raiding resto shamans. You're better off putting points in Buffeting Waves / Tidal Chain / Pull of the Sea / Queen Ascendant first IMO.

- - - Updated - - -

The lot of you have no clue of the value offered by the SWG trait either, it's the difference between covering one elisande ring and two. It's hugely beneficial, but not easily quantifiable until you've seen that content.

People have always dismissed QoL traits as worthless. Regardless of how strong they are.
I think this is because it's so hard to quantify. It could be the best trait in there and people wouldn't know.
I've tried to argue against that, but it's hard enough to convince people with simple math; let alone something that falls into a gray area like this.

I think it also doesn't help that this trait costs 4 points. If this was the 1 point trait, and the healing rain one costs 4 points total, I think a lot of people would've been less stingy about it.

[Korban]

The lot of you have no clue of the value offered by the SWG trait either

Spec into SWG talent if you need it so much. It's not like you're gonna miss Gust of LOL or the Wind Rush totem. Druids constantly casting roars anyway.

[Leaxa]

gold trait seems good to me... double gift during AG/cloudburst during high damage. def get a lot of use in mythic

[Deleted]

Spec into SWG talent if you need it so much. It's not like you're gonna miss Gust of LOL or the Wind Rush totem. Druids constantly casting roars anyway.

The two serve two completely different purposes though

[Knockkout]

I don't think anyone is really saying this. It's really good if you use it at the right moments and the +10% HP is really solid as well if you know burst is coming up; but it's value is significantly lower in M+ if you look at healing throughput for a few reasons.


1) Less likely to hit everyone in 1 GotQ. A lot of times it can be done, but there are also times it can't. You'd be hard pressed to not find enough people clustered enough for a GotQ in a raid.
2) Long cast time makes it really tough to use in pressure situations.
3) The splash from the new trait is more likely to overheal, because it's hitting the same people as it did a few seconds ago. In a raid setting you're more likely to hit "fresh" people.

Granted, the new trait will have some value if you can predict damage.
If you know damage is coming up in a few seconds, you can cast this. Hit everyone with a heal + give them 10% HP and get another free heal right afterwards.

On top of that this trait is more expensive for M+ because the healing rain trait right before it doesn't sweeten the deal as much in M+ as it does for raiding resto shamans. You're better off putting points in Buffeting Waves / Tidal Chain / Pull of the Sea / Queen Ascendant first IMO.

People are blatantly saying this if you read through the thread.

I'm fully aware of the spells "shortcomings" and the fact that everyone is concerned with it's throughput and people are crying about this leading to overhealing, Look it's free! who cares if it's overhealing, my point is people need to focus more on the HP buff aspect of this spell. People want to cry about the cast time GoTQ yet don't bitch about the cast time of Chain Heal. Chain Heal's cast time is SHIT for the throughput it gives you in a 5 man, sure it has a place in a raiding scenario like Krosus but I'm speaking in regards to Mythic+

I'm a casual non-raider @890 ilvl(with a 885 prot warrior alt) Pre 7.2 I had no issue completing +15's. Rarely do I throw out a Chain heal and I have Jonat's Bagged because Chain heal is that shitty for 5 man's I'll swap it in and out on easy pulls just to get the buff for the rare occasion I do use it and it's ONLY if I have a Jonat stack otherwise I don't touch Chain Heal.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that Healing Rain has poor value for mythic+ I'm looking more forward to that than I am the new Golden and I'm here being a proponent for the new golden. People need to understand how situational our toolkit is for Mythic+, when you're going to heal, where you're going to heal, and how you're going to use your heals drastically change depending on group composition, affix, and Dungeon. 95% of the time I'm running an Unleash, Guidance, AV, Echo, Wellspring Build. Probably fairly uncommon but I'm not the cookie cutter type all I can say is try it and you'll love healing M+ so much more As for Legendaries I use Velen's and Uncertain Reminder the Intellect from these two pieces is all but unrivaled and Velen's is just too damn good.

My biggest complaint is that Healing Rain has a cooldown, it would be much less frustrating if it behaved like Efflorescence in that it would be able to be recast at will.

[Gunwolf]

I wouldn't be so quick to say that Healing Rain has poor value for mythic+ I'm looking more forward to that than I am the new Golden and I'm here being a proponent for the new golden. People need to understand how situational our toolkit is for Mythic+, when you're going to heal, where you're going to heal, and how you're going to use your heals drastically change depending on group composition, affix, and Dungeon. 95% of the time I'm running an Unleash, Guidance, AV, Echo, Wellspring Build. Probably fairly uncommon but I'm not the cookie cutter type all I can say is try it and you'll love healing M+ so much more As for Legendaries I use Velen's and Uncertain Reminder the Intellect from these two pieces is all but unrivaled and Velen's is just too damn good.

My biggest complaint is that Healing Rain has a cooldown, it would be much less frustrating if it behaved like Efflorescence in that it would be able to be recast at will.

Interesting, you use unleash and wellspring? I usually use undulation and ascendance. I assume you pair unleash with wellspring? What have your experiences with it been like so far, what are pros and cons and stuff, do u miss ascendace? It does seem like an interesting build, may have to try it out today.

As for GotQ... that is a good point about the HP buff. Will it extend the duration to 9sec or 12 sec? The 6 sec duration has always felt short to me. I also don't use CHL much at all in M+, tho I will use HR sometimes esp early on in a fight but don't always refresh if the fight is gettin crazy and I gotta focus on heals. The buff to HR may make it more useful in 5mans, its typical healing is pretty minor but with this buff it might be more impactful. It is true that the new traits seem more aoe healing focused, but luckily our main artifact traits have several good buffs to our primary heals like tidal chains or buffeting waves. I do still really wish we had gotten some version of an absorb trait (like making that 2nd heal for GotQ be an absorb instead of direct heal).... we got a pretty great and diverse toolkit, but no absorbs yet which isn't a big deal honestly but would be cool.

[Knockkout]

Interesting, you use unleash and wellspring? I usually use undulation and ascendance. I assume you pair unleash with wellspring? What have your experiences with it been like so far, what are pros and cons and stuff, do u miss ascendace? It does seem like an interesting build, may have to try it out today.

As for GotQ... that is a good point about the HP buff. Will it extend the duration to 9sec or 12 sec? The 6 sec duration has always felt short to me. I also don't use CHL much at all in M+, tho I will use HR sometimes esp early on in a fight but don't always refresh if the fight is gettin crazy and I gotta focus on heals. The buff to HR may make it more useful in 5mans, its typical healing is pretty minor but with this buff it might be more impactful. It is true that the new traits seem more aoe healing focused, but luckily our main artifact traits have several good buffs to our primary heals like tidal chains or buffeting waves. I do still really wish we had gotten some version of an absorb trait (like making that 2nd heal for GotQ be an absorb instead of direct heal).... we got a pretty great and diverse toolkit, but no absorbs yet which isn't a big deal honestly but would be cool.

All in all it feels amazing to me, I literally NEVER have to drink. Also, I feel like Unleash just further adds to our flexibility and really can be catered to the scenario. Generally I Unleash Riptide the tank, IF I know some crazy AoE is coming, Scorpion Packs in NL, Lightning Guys in MoS then I'll stack Velen's Blood Fury and Wellspring and it hit's like an absolute truck. Occasionally I'll unleash on a HS to save someone or Tyrannical Dark Slash/Arching Bolt, mostly feel's best as amped up tide's. I will say that I almost always run with people I know, Pug ranged aren't used to standing in-front of anyone so this can be a little tricky sometimes but i've found that people pick it up quickly, another beauty of wellspring is it's insane coverage and range. 90% of the time it'll hit Ranged and Melee unless someone is just at a silly max range again running with a consistent group makes it killer!

So to answer your question, no I don't miss ascendance I think Guidance is plenty good enough and has a decent enough CD when you still have Tide and Link, why do we really need another ? I see a lot of RSham blow mutliple CD's like this it's not needed in M+ Tide and Guidance stacking is awesome for a raid, but in M+ it's overkill. Oh shit moment 1 = Guidance, Oh shit Moment 2= Link, Oh shit moment 3= Tide if you're having the need for a 4th oh shit moments in 2/3 minutes something else is wrong.

Healing Rain while it seems like it heals for a small amount, it's perfect for the basic splash damage out there, it also is great for the big AoE dmg by healing just enough to give you time to rip off some bigger heals. The 30% is absolutely HUGE it's going to help our AoE healing drastically. Since you didn't comment on Echo I'm assuming you're already used to having Healing Stream up at all times. Healing Stream and Healing Rain Combined is pretty strong grasping this concept took me a while and until I made sure my uptimes on these were a high priority I'd loose people fairly regularly earlier in the Expansion. You just have to trust them it's not as fast at picking up a party as Wild Growth for example but uptime can be 100% on both these spells.

With regards to GoTQ I didn't test this on PTR if it adds to the existing duration then it's realllly damn good, I'm assuming it'll overwrite though which makes me wish it would trigger again in 5 seconds but then that significantly changes the throughput aspect of the ability. The absorb concept is interesting for sure, but just doesn't seem very "shaman" to me.

I can't stress enough the importance of understanding the situational aspects of Rsham toolkit. There have been plenty of times I've cast Healing Rain and GoTQ on ranged and Riptides on Melee Scorpion Packs in NL for example in some scenario's ranged may stack with melee but this is something that certain Affix's really discourage. So people just need to realize that you don't always put the riptide or GoTQ or Healing Rain on the same person or in the same place all the time you have to be open minded.

[ItsTiddles]

So to answer your question, no I don't miss ascendance I think Guidance is plenty good enough and has a decent enough CD when you still have Tide and Link, why do we really need another ? I see a lot of RSham blow mutliple CD's like this it's not needed in M+ Tide and Guidance stacking is awesome for a raid, but in M+ it's overkill. Oh shit moment 1 = Guidance, Oh shit Moment 2= Link, Oh shit moment 3= Tide if you're having the need for a 4th oh shit moments in 2/3 minutes something else is wrong.

To be fair, sometimes it's intentional and not "wrong". For instance, with the way we pull trash, having ascendance is almost necessary. Sure, we could pull smaller groups or go slower, but why would we when we don't have to? It can also be helpful on higher tyrannical bosses, especially after some of the changes. Obviously it's not for everyone, but just pointing out that having a place to use it isn't necessarily a bad thing on you or your groups part.

[jayheals]

Pitter patter and our 4th golden trait demonstrate their strength best on a fight like Krosus, and here's one of the top r-shammy logs for krosus w/ both traits

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...aling&source=9

healing rain top heal above chain heal, GOTQ also doing a ton of healing. New traits are amazing for stacked fights

[Gunwolf]

All in all it feels amazing to me, I literally NEVER have to drink. Also, I feel like Unleash just further adds to our flexibility and really can be catered to the scenario. Generally I Unleash Riptide the tank, IF I know some crazy AoE is coming, Scorpion Packs in NL, Lightning Guys in MoS then I'll stack Velen's Blood Fury and Wellspring and it hit's like an absolute truck. Occasionally I'll unleash on a HS to save someone or Tyrannical Dark Slash/Arching Bolt, mostly feel's best as amped up tide's. I will say that I almost always run with people I know, Pug ranged aren't used to standing in-front of anyone so this can be a little tricky sometimes but i've found that people pick it up quickly, another beauty of wellspring is it's insane coverage and range. 90% of the time it'll hit Ranged and Melee unless someone is just at a silly max range again running with a consistent group makes it killer!

So to answer your question, no I don't miss ascendance I think Guidance is plenty good enough and has a decent enough CD when you still have Tide and Link, why do we really need another ? I see a lot of RSham blow mutliple CD's like this it's not needed in M+ Tide and Guidance stacking is awesome for a raid, but in M+ it's overkill. Oh shit moment 1 = Guidance, Oh shit Moment 2= Link, Oh shit moment 3= Tide if you're having the need for a 4th oh shit moments in 2/3 minutes something else is wrong.

Cool, thanks for the info. Forgot to try it out yest but def gonna see how it plays today. ULE is certainly versatile... I haven't used it much at all but have heard it is popular in some CHL raid builds to buff CHL. Using ULE with Riptide for single target or Wellspring for aoe seems like good versatile uses for it.

As for Ascendance, I suppose that is true. Its always nice to have more cd's tho, esp one as strong as Ascendance.... but I can live without it esp if wellspring can pick up the slack.

Healing Rain while it seems like it heals for a small amount, it's perfect for the basic splash damage out there, it also is great for the big AoE dmg by healing just enough to give you time to rip off some bigger heals. The 30% is absolutely HUGE it's going to help our AoE healing drastically. Since you didn't comment on Echo I'm assuming you're already used to having Healing Stream up at all times. Healing Stream and Healing Rain Combined is pretty strong grasping this concept took me a while and until I made sure my uptimes on these were a high priority I'd loose people fairly regularly earlier in the Expansion. You just have to trust them it's not as fast at picking up a party as Wild Growth for example but uptime can be 100% on both these spells.

With regards to GoTQ I didn't test this on PTR if it adds to the existing duration then it's realllly damn good, I'm assuming it'll overwrite though which makes me wish it would trigger again in 5 seconds but then that significantly changes the throughput aspect of the ability. The absorb concept is interesting for sure, but just doesn't seem very "shaman" to me.

Yea, both HR and HST are useful. HR is small consistent hot, didn't feel super important or useful in 5mans but usually easy to drop so I did anyways but with the artifact buff it will def be used on CD now. HST I like cause its a smartish heal so will always be useful.

I am just assuming that the duration of the buff will extend, which would be awesome since I think the normal 6sec duration is super short. Just wishful thinking tho, we will see.

Now that I am thinking about it tho.... kinda wish the new SWG trait would also increase the GotQ buff's duration by 4 sec total (1 sec for each point). That brings the HP buff up from 6 to 10 sec. Would make that trait feel a bit more useful to take.

[Yoda11]

Pitter patter and our 4th golden trait demonstrate their strength best on a fight like Krosus, and here's one of the top r-shammy logs for krosus w/ both traits

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...aling&source=9

healing rain top heal above chain heal, GOTQ also doing a ton of healing. New traits are amazing for stacked fights

They pretty much double down on our stacked healing capacity with pitter patter. new golden, and new tier bonus. Hopefully there are some good fights in ToS that let us shine base on that

[Deleted]

As predicted, these traits make RShaman a fucking monster at any consistent stack healing and also dealing with mobility.

[Nythiz]

People are blatantly saying this if you read through the thread.

There is only one guy spouting that nonsense on page 1 and he was quickly put in his place by half a dozen people. So "all the people" is just 1 banned forum troll.
There are more people saying it's not as flexible to use in M+ as in raids. Which is exactly what I explained.

I'm fully aware of the spells "shortcomings" and the fact that everyone is concerned with it's throughput and people are crying about this leading to overhealing, Look it's free! who cares if it's overhealing, my point is people need to focus more on the HP buff aspect of this spell. People want to cry about the cast time GoTQ yet don't bitch about the cast time of Chain Heal. Chain Heal's cast time is SHIT for the throughput it gives you in a 5 man, sure it has a place in a raiding scenario like Krosus but I'm speaking in regards to Mythic+

I'm a casual non-raider @890 ilvl(with a 885 prot warrior alt) Pre 7.2 I had no issue completing +15's. Rarely do I throw out a Chain heal and I have Jonat's Bagged because Chain heal is that shitty for 5 man's I'll swap it in and out on easy pulls just to get the buff for the rare occasion I do use it and it's ONLY if I have a Jonat stack otherwise I don't touch Chain Heal.

Mana free is hardly a metric for M+ healing though, it's not a concern when you can drink in between pulls.
The overhealing flag I'm raising is mostly because it's another reason why the new golden trait doesn't perform as well in a 5 man as it would in a raid.
The cast time is an issue when in M+ a large metric for what spell you plan to use is HPS and HPCT; and GotQ might be free and might do quite a lot of healing, it also has a really long cast time. Which can be an issue.

Chain heal's cast time is indeed shit for M+; not sure what point you are trying to make here,
So the point your making here is not really making any sense in reply to my quote. IF anything you double down on my point: Long cast time heals (such as chain heal and GotQ) have a more restricted (restricted, not the same as unusable) use in mythic+.
Nobody is bitching about GotQ, it's a good spell. Nobody is bitching about CH it's a good spell. Just less so for M+ than for raids; which is fine. HS is better for m+ than for raids.

The only thing people might bitch about is how the new trait talents are very much focused on raiding as the 2x 1 point traits focus on 2 spells that have the best applications in raid scenarios.

I wouldn't be so quick to say that Healing Rain has poor value for mythic+ I'm looking more forward to that than I am the new Golden and I'm here being a proponent for the new golden. People need to understand how situational our toolkit is for Mythic+, when you're going to heal, where you're going to heal, and how you're going to use your heals drastically change depending on group composition, affix, and Dungeon. 95% of the time I'm running an Unleash, Guidance, AV, Echo, Wellspring Build. Probably fairly uncommon but I'm not the cookie cutter type all I can say is try it and you'll love healing M+ so much more As for Legendaries I use Velen's and Uncertain Reminder the Intellect from these two pieces is all but unrivaled and Velen's is just too damn good.

I haven't at any point said it has poor value in mythic+.
I use it quite often, there are a lot of static fights and putting HR down at a point where the fight isn't taxing on the healing only benefits me later on as it's basically free extra healing at that point (in a HPS/HPCT way; not a HPM way)

But you can't disagree that it doesn't hold the value in mythic+ as much as it does in raids. Which is exactly what I'm saying.

The point I was making is that both traits both new 1-point traits are really much better than a lot of people think they are. But for both PvP and Mythic+ they don't really do enough to warrant them over the other traits (assuming you do nothing other than that type of content).

[Deleted]

But you can't disagree that it doesn't hold the value in mythic+ as much as it does in raids. Which is exactly what I'm saying.

This is a garbled sentence, but given I've been playing with these for the last week or so I completely disagree. SWG is still strong in M+, that's a PEBCAK issue, it's an ability that is as powerful as you make it.

HR/GotQ buffs directly influence your ability to survive in small group content against overwhelming AoE, best example is chain pulling Mariners which is typically not very fun for Shaman unless you have multiple CDs available. Even in that case if you had bad luck with the affixes etc. you're in for a bad time. This has been completely deleted with the new traits, you can handle pulls like this with complete ease which is the only part a traditional M+ build had trouble with.

---

PS - Please stop with the Wellspring nonsense... UL and WS? UL doesn't even buff Wellspring as it is not a direct heal.

[Gunwolf]

But you can't disagree that it doesn't hold the value in mythic+ as much as it does in raids. Which is exactly what I'm saying.

The point I was making is that both traits both new 1-point traits are really much better than a lot of people think they are. But for both PvP and Mythic+ they don't really do enough to warrant them over the other traits (assuming you do nothing other than that type of content).

This is prob true.... the new traits are basically aoe/raid heals so if you are just doing M+ or pvp then you will be more focus on single target heals and the type of builds that work better with hw/hs and riptide. In that case, putting points in atleast buffeting waves, tidal chains, and queen ascendant (mebbe pull of sea too) is prob worth it first, and then maybe move onto the new traits. The HR trait is pretty good, will def make it more useful to cast in 5mans... tho I can agree with how useful GotQ trait will be.

I would love to see this:

SWG trait = +8sec duration to SWG, and +4sec duration to GotQ HP buff (bringing it up to 10sec).

GotQ triat = applies absorb shield on up to 6 party members for 100% of the GotQ heal.


That 6 sec duration on the HP buff is really low imo, so bringing it up to 10 sec would be great. And instead of 2xGotQ if we get an absorb for 2nd heal instead that would be way better, gives the absorb back and no overheal the bubble will always be useful. Only downside is you don't get the double dip to charge CBT anymore but thats okay with me.

[Deleted]

People not seeing the potential for the new golden trait in m+ is just not thinking straight, if at all.
I'm looking forward using it for high level tyrannical Melandrus in CoS, fortified lightning dudes in maw, fortified mini boss in votw etc etc.

People are underestimating our kit in m+ and the new golden trait will make it even better, also I think the healing rain trait will be interesting aswell.