Homeowner arrested after shooting intruder dead in the shower

[JohnBrown1917]

I'd favor this:

a) If someone breaks in my house i may kill him (posing a thread or not)
b) if someone attacks me physically i may kill him.

Sounds drastic but hey, if people are too primitive to respect others property or health they shall pay the highest price. (Many/Most) Parents will tell their children early NEVER EVER attack somebody you might get killed. People will learn respect the hard way.

Good thing you don't make laws then.

[Vash The Stampede]

My wife had a cousin who broke into a guys apartment, was drunk and charged him with a knife ( because he was dating his daughter and he hated the guy ) The guy shot him 6 times. Killing him. He was found not guilty because of self defense.

That's different. That's seconds away from being schrodinger's cat. Also I guess daddy was right?

[Deleted]

The issue is he left the property, got a gun, returned and killed a assumed naked man. That is premeditation.

yeah that seems like solid logic, premeditation here requires intent and planning to murder. I think in this situation it'd be just as fair to assume that he got his gun to defend himself when attempting a civilian arrest. I'm sure his defense will make that case too, it's easy to captain hindsight here (defiently from the safety of our computors) but not everyone is as smart or cool under pressure. instinctively I'd weigh the fact that nothing would've happened if he hadnt broke in heavyer than the preventable gun violent escalation of the defendant.

P.S. I don't know what a castle state is I assume it has something to do with standing your ground or some such thing? I am interested however by all the sports references in your justice system; it seems rather creepy to me)

[Allybeboba]

Pretty perplexing that a thread about a single American killing another American on their own property has ~50% more posts than a terrorist action in Russia that killed many more.

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yeah that seems like solid logic, premeditation here requires intent and planning to murder. I think in this situation it'd be just as fair to assume that he got his gun to defend himself when attempting a civilian arrest. I'm sure his defense will make that case too, it's easy to captain hindsight here (defiently from the safety of our computors) but not everyone is as smart or cool under pressure. instinctively I'd weigh the fact that nothing would've happened if he hadnt broke in heavyer than the preventable gun violent escalation of the defendant.

P.S. I don't know what a castle state is I assume it has something to do with standing your ground or some such thing? I am interested however by all the sports references in your justice system; it seems rather creepy to me)

Known as the castle doctrine.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

[LMuhlen]

Pretty perplexing that a thread about a single American killing another American on their own property has ~50% more posts than a terrorist action in Russia that killed many more.

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Known as the castle doctrine.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

Is anyone defending the terrorists from the attack in Russia?

[Allybeboba]

Is anyone defending the terrorists from the attack in Russia?

Did the terrorists kill people on property they owned?

[ParanoiD84]

Im all for killing home invaders to protect your property, it's your castle after all but seeing as this guy went to grab a gun in a other house then return and kill him when he could have called the cops or just forced him on the ground or something, not much he could have done in the shower so i dont think it was justified this time.

[kail]

>be criminal
>invade home
>homeowner defends his property
>homeowner will be arrested and tried

I mean, fuck it at this point. Why even have laws?

Might want to catch up instead of just reading the headlines.

It's in the OP, so not that far.

Detectives say the homeowner went back to his home, got a gun and returned to the other house and shot the intruder multiple times.

[lockedout]

No, Washington does not have castle doctrine.

Castle doctrine, yes. No duty to retreat.

[Machismo]

Castle doctrine, yes. No duty to retreat.

Washington does not have castle doctrine in the sense that anything goes within one's property, but it does not have a duty to retreat. The only issue is that the owner already chose to retreat, then came back to shoot the guy. Since he chose to retreat, and then chose to shoot someone once he was no longer in danger, he will have a hard time saying it was self defense. He was not in any danger.

[Fahrenheit]

I need to know more, but leaving the situation to safety, and coming back armed and potentially looking for trouble when it seems no one was in imminent danger... that could easily be construed as murder.

If I were the guy, I would have just went back to my main residence and called the police. I am a gun owner too.

[lockedout]

Washington does not have castle doctrine in the sense that anything goes within one's property, but it does not have a duty to retreat. The only issue is that the owner already chose to retreat, then came back to shoot the guy. Since he chose to retreat, and then chose to shoot someone once he was no longer in danger, he will have a hard time saying it was self defense. He was not in any danger.

Copy pasted : RCW 9A.52.010 defines "entry" for the purposes of burglary as an attempt to remove property with an instrument (prying off a screen, attempting to jimmy a door, pry open a window):
RCW 9A.52.010
Definitions.

The following definitions apply in this chapter:

(1) "Premises" includes any building, dwelling, structure used for commercial aquaculture, or any real property;

(2) "Enter". The word "enter" when constituting an element or part of a crime, shall include the entrance of the person, or the insertion of any part of his body, or any instrument or weapon held in his hand and used or intended to be used to threaten or intimidate a person or to detach or remove property;
RCW 9A.52.025 establishes residential burglary as a felony:

RCW 9A.52.025
Residential burglary.

(1) A person is guilty of residential burglary if, with intent to commit a crime against a person or property therein, the person enters or remains unlawfully in a dwelling other than a vehicle.

(2) Residential burglary is a class B felony.
RCW 9A.16.050 justifies homicide in the case of a person defending themselves against a felony which may be imminent.

RCW 9A.16.050
Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.

Those three statutes together clearly establish castle doctrine in Washington state. They were revised to their current wording as quoted in 2011, so maybe castle doctrine was more clearly established in Washington state this year.

[Machismo]

Copy pasted : RCW 9A.52.010 defines "entry" for the purposes of burglary as an attempt to remove property with an instrument (prying off a screen, attempting to jimmy a door, pry open a window):
RCW 9A.52.010
Definitions.

The following definitions apply in this chapter:

(1) "Premises" includes any building, dwelling, structure used for commercial aquaculture, or any real property;

(2) "Enter". The word "enter" when constituting an element or part of a crime, shall include the entrance of the person, or the insertion of any part of his body, or any instrument or weapon held in his hand and used or intended to be used to threaten or intimidate a person or to detach or remove property;
RCW 9A.52.025 establishes residential burglary as a felony:

RCW 9A.52.025
Residential burglary.

(1) A person is guilty of residential burglary if, with intent to commit a crime against a person or property therein, the person enters or remains unlawfully in a dwelling other than a vehicle.

(2) Residential burglary is a class B felony.
RCW 9A.16.050 justifies homicide in the case of a person defending themselves against a felony which may be imminent.

RCW 9A.16.050
Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.

Those three statutes together clearly establish castle doctrine in Washington state. They were revised to their current wording as quoted in 2011, so maybe castle doctrine was more clearly established in Washington state this year.

And yet, that's still not grounds to justify this shooting in the eyes of the law.

"In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished;"

The issue is that he left, and came back... and did not wait for the police. There were no humans present, so he removed himself from the equation.

[Powerogue]

Fair point that the intruder wasn't an immediate threat so this was a good situation to just call the police in. Preferably while either blocking him in the bathroom with something heavy or hanging outside the door with a gun. Or perhaps nab the intruder's clothes so he's both disarmed (assuming he was carrying any weapons on his person) and would be forced to flee naked if he tried to make off before the police showed up.

So many better options.

[jimboa24]

Ok, yeah, he's definitely on the hook for second degree murder. First degree is a bit of a stretch, but the case could be made. The guy called the cops AFTER shooting the guy, made no attempt to de-escalate the situation, did not, as far as I can see from the facts, fear for his life nor have any reason to, came back after retrieving a weapon and shot the man with no warning...

Yeah, I waited till the facts came out to form an opinion, and now there's no question in my mind. This guy's going to be spending the better part of the next decade or two at least in prison.

[Celista]

Please, if you live in the US and aren't sure what you are or are not legally allowed to do in situations like this, click on the link and scroll down to your state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle...h_a_castle_law

Also, http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal...ound-laws.html

[Hammerfest]

A naked man in your Workplace shower...

Which is in a home that you own? It's not like the guy broke into an IBM facility and took a shower. The home owner found him in a home that he owns. Try again.

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Or just...call the police.

And wait 12-24 hours or longer? I think not.

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I'm pretty dangerous when I am naked.

Yeah, me too.

[Torgent]

>be criminal
>invade home
>homeowner defends his property
>homeowner will be arrested and tried

I mean, fuck it at this point. Why even have laws?

The guy who broke in is a criminal. Yes. The guy who shot him is a criminal as well. If we were to rank them in terms of severity, the breaking and entering is extremely low on the list.

[Ilikegreenfire]

Which is in a home that you own? It's not like the guy broke into an IBM facility and took a shower. The home owner found him in a home that he owns. Try again.

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And wait 12-24 hours or longer? I think not.

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Yeah, me too.

Its still his business not his home, that matters in the eyes of the law. He saw the guy in his business, left, got a gun came back, and shot the dude while he was still showering. Remember the dude was still in the shower when shot, had he gotten out of the shower and rushed the guy it would have been a justified shoot, but its not.

If two teens broke into your pool house to shag and you got your gun and shot them in bed it would be the same thing, if the teens got out of bed and charged you they would be an active threat.

What he should have done is call the cops and held the dude in the shower at gunpoint. If the guy rushes him kill him so be it.

Also your idea of a response time is silly. If you tell the cops you have and active intruder they will come with in minutes, if you come home and the break in that already happened ya it would take longer, and active intruder tho? that shit is immediate

[lockedout]

And yet, that's still not grounds to justify this shooting in the eyes of the law.

I never said it was.