Arms Legion Discussion

[Kelato]

. And the nerfs were not ultimately that bad, it was performing very very well in EN and TOV due to great scaling within that bracket.

I wouldn't call having back to back trys where you go from godlike to absolute horseshit due to RNG "very very well". This was especially the case if you didn't have certain legendaries. Also, if I remember correctly you were one of the more vocal guys to complain about the nerfs and arms in general.
Arms is a broken spec that did relatively well at the beginning of Legion because it was overtuned in a way that all the flaws could be somewhat compensated.

[Kitaen]

I wouldn't call having back to back trys where you go from godlike to absolute horseshit due to RNG "very very well". This was especially the case if you didn't have certain legendaries. Also, if I remember correctly you were one of the more vocal guys to complain about the nerfs and arms in general.
Arms is a broken spec that did relatively well at the beginning of Legion because it was overtuned in a way that all the flaws could be somewhat compensated.

by overtuned you mean a gazzilion dps behind shadow priests, right?

[Bigbazz]

I wouldn't call having back to back trys where you go from godlike to absolute horseshit due to RNG "very very well". This was especially the case if you didn't have certain legendaries. Also, if I remember correctly you were one of the more vocal guys to complain about the nerfs and arms in general.
Arms is a broken spec that did relatively well at the beginning of Legion because it was overtuned in a way that all the flaws could be somewhat compensated.

I was one of the most vocal guys, I was at the time in a competitive raiding guild being asked about rerolling Rogue because I didn't have good Legendaries on my Warrior and big nerfs were inc. But we saw a lot of additional tuning changes across the board and what I wasn't taking into account was how well Arms was still going to scale with gear relative to other classes with the newer balance changes.

Early on in EN it was a nightmare for Arms if you didn't have the best Legendaries, the spec swayed so much in performance that even pre-nerf you could perform really poorly, and the next pull be top damage. In the long term during that tier it was very strong, and ultimately the biggest issue was lack of Legendaries early on.

Now Legendaries are not such a big deal both since the best ones got nerfed (while bad have been buffed) and also because we have a lot more of them. Like I said in the post "the nerfs were not ultimately that bad", which is exactly true. The spec as a whole was problematic and the nerfs compounded that issue, but in the medium-long term Arms was still very competitive and the issues were largely ironed out. And while Arms isn't super competitive now, it was still very strong in the early weeks of NH before it was largely dropped for Fury, and with 7.2 everything is in the process of changing again, we're not in a static state due to the new Artifact traits and upcoming tier.

[Kelato]

by overtuned you mean a gazzilion dps behind shadow priests, right?

This has nothing to do with shadow priests being totally broken. Arms had certain overtuned aspects that made up for design flaws like being overly dependent on CS or mastery.

[Rangatira]

This has nothing to do with shadow priests being totally broken. Arms had certain overtuned aspects that made up for design flaws like being overly dependent on CS or mastery.

Uhm...dont get me wrong, but as far as i know Arms specc IS overly dependent on CS AND Mastery Ok, Haste is also okay for us, but with more Ilvl, mastery is THE stat ^^ But its possible to do good damage as Arms too, but its certainly much harder than doing good damage with some other classes / speccs.

[Kelato]

Uhm...dont get me wrong, but as far as i know Arms specc IS overly dependent on CS AND Mastery

I didn't say arms is not dependent on CS and mastery though It was meant as an example how arms is badly designed but can still perform well due to things like FS+SD+AM which are overtuned compared to other traits/talents.

[Deleted]

That's not true at all. There were many more arms players than Fury in raiding, at least. As someone pointed out, FR was nerfed from 50% --> 30% and EtW got hammered. Arms scaled much better than Fury at the start of the expac -- Arms scaled to an insane degree.

I said in general over the years not specifically on Legion. Fury has been played in a lot more fights than arms, it was just easier to swap specs back then, now its harder cause many ppl don't have the same artifact investment.

Fury received a ~4-6% net buff a few weeks after launch, and then another buff of 8% to most abilities in 7.1. Then 7.1.5 brought a suped up frothing berserker and reckless abandon, the latter being the big one. Both talents were much much better than the previous best talents in the tier. Hell, reckless abandon, aside from being a straight dps increase over old dragon roar doesn't require a global and essentially allows Fury to function with DoS -- w/o this talent Fury dps would be a lot worse and a lot clunkier.

So did most of the other specs. They said they overshoot their goal with secondaries and whatnot and most specs received those buffs, some more than warriors. That was like a "universal" buff to all. So with respect to other classes fury didn't get buffed, at best it stayed on the same spot. Now frothing/RA was talent changes cause there was no choices at all, and guess what, its still the same. Everyone is using same bottom 3 tier talents, just different than before, still no real choices.

Fury was complete trash at launch and through most of EN, and the entire time it was "easier to gear for" because sure it wasn't as bound to haste as arms is to mastery (and now with DoS haste effectively equals mastery).

Fury was never trash...It was mid pack if not on the upper pack. It was that Arms was so strong above everyoen else that ppl with good gear didn't play fury and that translated into showing lower than it was on logs. See now, things are the other way around. Most high geared warriors play fury showing arms being so far lower. That goes for every single class that got more than 2 dps specs. Ppl will play what does "5k" more dps cause a sim says so. If you look the top progress guilds they had both arms and fury warriors and did just fine.

[Deleted]

only fight were arms is really shit on myth is tichondrius, doesnt matter tho cause every scrub is padding meters on blubs. On every other boss arms can be fine, sure not as good as fury sometimes but i dont think its terrible

[Tatsujin]

My post on Blizzard Class Development. Well I'm just pretty sick with the crap:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753797657

Executioner's Precision is great, but not the answer to our CS resets and dishing out actual damage without having CS/3 FRs up, low AoE damage, very very limited choices for talents ... just too many problems.

Nerfs from 50% to 30% to FR, nerfs to CS resets and relics for Tactician ... no idea how to play this game, 4 more months and I'm done. Already unsubscribed -shrugs- whatever at this point. Destiny 2 and other games are coming out soon so I'll go enjoy my time over there.

[Teaon]

My post on Blizzard Class Development. Well I'm just pretty sick with the crap:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753797657

Executioner's Precision is great, but not the answer to our CS resets and dishing out actual damage without having CS/3 FRs up, low AoE damage, very very limited choices for talents ... just too many problems.

Nerfs from 50% to 30% to FR, nerfs to CS resets and relics for Tactician ... no idea how to play this game, 4 more months and I'm done. Already unsubscribed -shrugs- whatever at this point. Destiny 2 and other games are coming out soon so I'll go enjoy my time over there.

could have censored my 18+ words : D

but thank you good sir.

[Tatsujin]

could have censored my 18+ words : D

but thank you good sir.

You made some good points so I left it as is. To be honest, Blizzard won't look or reply to it. :/ Anyways, gonna play other games, been doing that for 3 weeks now.

[Deemerbob]

You made some good points so I left it as is. To be honest, Blizzard won't look or reply to it. :/ Anyways, gonna play other games, been doing that for 3 weeks now.

They're not going to reply because nothing in that post is constructive. There are no suggestions on what to do with the spec, just complaining that it was nerfed and now it's broken, needs buffs, and more people play fury than arms.

I agree that arms could use some love, but that's not the way to be heard by blizzard employees.

[Bigbazz]

I think Blizzard have already made changes to vastly improve Arms with the new artifact traits and the T20 set bonuses. They probably don't want to jump too much into messing with things now when they haven't properly assessed how those changes will pan out. On the subject of playstyle I like Arms personally, and RNG aside I've always liked it, the RNG made it brutally painful early on but it's not such a big deal now in T19 with much higher gear levels.

For sure Arms has weaknesses and its scaling has levelled off a lot (due in part to not amazing stat optimisation in NH, and the AOE/cleave centric nature of most fights), but some of these changes directly address them, the Bladestorm damage in the new traits and the T20 set bonus, + the new Golden Trait which has incredible potential. Come TOS Arms could genuinely be a really strong contender again, without recieving any further changes. We just don't know yet.

[Rangatira]

They're not going to reply because nothing in that post is constructive. There are no suggestions on what to do with the spec, just complaining that it was nerfed and now it's broken, needs buffs, and more people play fury than arms.

So, one constructive point could be, that they should increase the value of our base stat strength. atm crit is the worst, than strength directly after it. Blizzard also told in an earlier post that secondary stats are too strong (like our godlike Mastery). They could tune the main stat strength for us, so its gets worthier and scales better. That could also flat out our big problem that we have with mastery and its huge importance. A higher ilvl gear (aftera buff for strength and so its scaling for us) could be then better although it has lower mastery and something like crit on it...isnt that an idea?! Overall it would be a good but not too heavy buff for us. It would give us more flexibility in gearing and increase ou damage output.

[LazyCoding]

EtW from 30% to 12% and the relics from 10% to 4%

I didin't know about this nerf. It seems very unnecary . CS should reset much more often because when it does it is just a buffed MS nothing else. Just a single ability(with some buffs) and then you wait for reset again.

Now that I found out Arms was intentionly killed I lost all my desire to ever respec.
See you in another xpac Arms.

[Teaon]

one of the main reasons of why arms scale so bad is strength


its so bad for us, its the 2nd worst stat, other specs benefits so hard from main stats, we dont, that we dont even take a item with 70 ilvl without mastery

[Tatsujin]

They're not going to reply because nothing in that post is constructive. There are no suggestions on what to do with the spec, just complaining that it was nerfed and now it's broken, needs buffs, and more people play fury than arms.

I agree that arms could use some love, but that's not the way to be heard by blizzard employees.

You're right, here is a more constructive post that I built and NO replies were made to it:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...3065193#post-1

1st version, read a bit and see how constructive it is.

And from others:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...ort=time&dir=d

There are dozens of constructive posts about suggestions, ideas and changes to Arms and no replies from Blizzard. So in short, they don't give a shit if you make constructive or non-constructive. That thread is pure facts infused with frustration and emotions. What else can we do, more constructive posts? Their answer "well, you can join a more casual guild! ... or someone who can" put up with your bullshit spec. They literally posted similar words like this not too long ago, 1-2 months ago.

It is frustrating to see a developer not pay any attention to this spec.

My apologizes for the frustration and anger ... ;/

[Rangatira]

Lawl...i think that nobody did read what i wrote^^everybody just telling the same what i mentioned xD but yeah, however, i am glad to see that the rest of you feel the same: Buff strength!

[Rangatira]

OMG
...
i cant believe that i would experience it for the ret of my life
...
WE
GOT
A
BUUUUUFFFFFFFFFF (Executioner Stacks 75%!!)

WOOOHOOOO!

xD

[Deleted]

OMG
...
i cant believe that i would experience it for the ret of my life
...
WE
GOT
A
BUUUUUFFFFFFFFFF (Executioner Stacks 75%!!)

WOOOHOOOO!

xD

Pretty annoying with a buff that is more rewarding for people that have been blessed by RNGesus and have the ring, but atleast a buff so I'll take it.