Got kicked from EN Normal for being outdpsed by healer

[Arbiter]

In my defense
Jiera: who pulled ~900k dps
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...asts&source=16

vs

Felthazzar
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...asts&source=13

I got off just as many of our highest damaging abilities as this guy (annihilation in meta) the difference being that his hits for nearly double of what mine does. Again not asleep at the wheel... clearly doing what I am supposed to. My gear is shit... if it was a problem why was I invited? I don't think I would have been able to do any better.

In fact a cursory glance... I was probably more awake then the guy who pulled 900k dps. The issue is my gear... and if you're gonna raid lead... you should have a clue what your people are capable of at their max.

I'd say you think too highly of yourself if you really think you did better than he did in rotation alone. Not only are his talents better suited for the situation, but if you had done everything the way it was intended you would've came out with more dps. 18 ilvls isn't going to be the difference between opening up with 3mil+ burst window vs a less than 800K burst window.

I don't necessarily agree with kicking you for the sole reason of a 900+ lvl holy paladin out bursting a dps, but you have a serious problem of thinking that there was nothing wrong with how you played.

[CaughtUMirin]

Check out holy paladins on 5 min fights pulling 500k dps. They can end up with close to 700-800k in 1:30 min fights or less

That's nice, but if you actually look at the log you'll see the holy pally only did 380k dps

In my defense
Jiera: who pulled ~900k dps


vs

Felthazzar


I got off just as many of our highest damaging abilities as this guy (annihilation in meta) the difference being that his hits for nearly double of what mine does. Again not asleep at the wheel... clearly doing what I am supposed to. My gear is shit... if it was a problem why was I invited? I don't think I would have been able to do any better.

In fact a cursory glance... I was probably more awake then the guy who pulled 900k dps. The issue is my gear... and if you're gonna raid lead... you should have a clue what your people are capable of at their max.

The fact that a DH only 15 ilvls higher than your DH was able to do 3x the dps is not a good defense...

[Tharkkun]

It was EN normal, the guy was dick for kicking you, but bro your 877, EN Norm is tuned for like 850 I think, Your damage is very low. If you were a new player I could understand but you claim to have been playing since at least ICC. Your job is to do damage, to validate that you are actually doing damage you should have a damage meter, (which you do now, so good). Casual or not if your being eclipsed by other players and even the healers it should bother you and no one is obligated to carry you through the content.

Look at how much damage the Rogue did on the Ursoc fight, yes he's near the bottom, but it's still 500k+ and he's doing what he can, those are good numbers in accordance to his gear. BTW I haven't seen anyone here yet explain what you could be doing wrong based on your log. Stop being pricks and help the guy.

Oh yea...and get rid of Noxxic, not sure how that site is still even around.

He should ask in this thread. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...EAD-FIRST-POST

[Merkader]

In my defense
Jiera: who pulled ~900k dps
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...asts&source=16

vs

Felthazzar
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...asts&source=13

I got off just as many of our highest damaging abilities as this guy (annihilation in meta) the difference being that his hits for nearly double of what mine does. Again not asleep at the wheel... clearly doing what I am supposed to. My gear is shit... if it was a problem why was I invited? I don't think I would have been able to do any better.

In fact a cursory glance... I was probably more awake then the guy who pulled 900k dps. The issue is my gear... and if you're gonna raid lead... you should have a clue what your people are capable of at their max.

You play with the Old Momentum Build its much weaker than his Build and you did not use a single Death Sweep while he used 6.
Check out the new Single and Multitarget Builds and start to use Blade Dance/Death Sweep vs Single Target too.
You can pull out much more with your gear the only problem is a bit to much Haste but for the start its okay.

[A dot Ham]

Here is your theoretical max on a 1 minute fight with your gear. That fight was 45 seconds so your DPS could be slightly higher.

https://raidbots.com/simbot/report/ByUyIK06g (874k)

I would use this website to sim yourself. Noxxic is quite possibly the worst website for accurate information of any existing game ever.

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...fd30bd140f52e8
@ 1:40.

Why is yours different than mine?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...k/Jiera/simple
Has about 20 ilvls on me.

I'm just looking for a reasonable benchmark for myself. If I need to take that benchmark to my own peeps later... that's fine.

[Marrilaife]

Farm nethershards, get to 880+, buy an AOTC and then you can get in basically any pug you want

Good point, I have 2 alts I wanted to do balance of power on, 1 got decent gear from alt runs with friends / guild in normal then hc nh, that alt had no prob getting into EN pug, but my second alt is around 860-870 from WQ and has literally zero chance getting into either any high m+ that drops upgrades or EN normal I need for essences.

That's why I'm saying having access to friends / guild / alt runs helps a lot, trying to jump the gear gap without help or buying a boost is a bit of an uphill struggle.

When I pugged normal EN on that hc NH geared alt we didn't have anyone kicked except offliners, but there was drama someone pulled trash before Cenarius and because it was a person from the Russian server someone started making racist comments (as if non Russians never asspulled trash...) So yeah, pugging is cesspool.

[Arbiter]

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...fd30bd140f52e8
@ 1:40.

Why is yours different than mine?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...k/Jiera/simple
Has about 20 ilvls on me.

I'm just looking for a reasonable benchmark for myself. If I need to take that benchmark to my own peeps later... that's fine.

Because you're simming yourself at triple the length. The fight where you did under 400K was only around 45 seconds which is optimal fight time considering how long lust and meta lasts, and no he wasn't 20 ilvls above you. On that specific fight he was 895 and you were 877. Warcraft logs tracks these things.

You can either sit around and come up with bullshit sims to try and tailor to your argument and continue believing that you did everything right or you can accept the fact that no one is perfect and you have a lot of improving to do with your class. I'd suggest choosing the latter and doing some research while getting some help at the Demon Hunter forums. It'll do you some good.

[Tiyr]

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simula...fd30bd140f52e8
@ 1:40.

Why is yours different than mine?

That's a 3.5 minute fight. Your DPS will decrease on longer fights.

[Matthias]

Because you're simming yourself at twice the length. The fight where you did under 400K was only around 45 seconds which is optimal fight time considering how long lust and meta lasts, and no he wasn't 20 ilvls above you. On that specific fight he was 895 and you were 877. Warcraft logs tracks these things.

You can either sit around and come up with bullshit sims to try and tailor to your argument and continue believing that you did everything right or you can accept the fact that no one is perfect and you have a lot of improving to do with your class. I'd suggest choosing the latter and doing some research while getting some help at the Demon Hunter forums. It'll do you some good.

Harsh but, I agree. Your also measuring your self to a very geared DH, look at the other players in the run closer to your ilvl, the Rogue is 877 (like you) and did 563k, the 2 Monks that are only 881 doing 650k, and beating a Monk that's 900 somehow.

No sense comparing logs, it's clear that your playing underpar and should just figure out how to fix it. Plenty of resource out there. Just don't use Noxxic, like ever.

[Arbiter]

Harsh but, I agree. Your also measuring your self to a very geared DH, look at the other players in the run closer to your ilvl, the Rogue is 877 (like you) and did 563k, the 2 Monks that are only 881 doing 650k, and beating a Monk that's 900 somehow.

No sense comparing logs, it's clear that your playing underpar and should just figure out how to fix it. Plenty of resource out there. Just don't use Noxxic, like ever.

It might be harsh, but honestly I wasn't even really agreeing that he should have been kicked until the point in which he stated that he was "more awake" than the other DH implying that he was playing better considering not only the damage being the clear indicator, but the other DH performs at 90th+ percentile for their ilvl in Heroic NH. That's just foolish to be so self centered that you think the problem with your damage isn't your skill level and/or knowledge of the class. Especially when other DH's around his gear level we're capable of as high as ~800K on that same fight at a similar fight length. OP is clearly delusional to the truth.

[Phookah]

And if an 850 is some sort of deciding factor in the success of 890-900 folks in normal EN, then there's much larger problems going on.

This playerbase continues to bring the hilarity, no question.

No duh? That wasn't what was being discussed. I could have someone naked and dead in the back of the boss room in EN normal every fight and still do fine too, the point being that not everyone wants to carry people who under perform.

I agree that if the raid lead invited an undergeared person then they should expect lower performance, however it seems the person in question was doing not great for someone with 880 ilevel.

[A dot Ham]

Because you're simming yourself at triple the length. The fight where you did under 400K was only around 45 seconds which is optimal fight time considering how long lust and meta lasts, and no he wasn't 20 ilvls above you. On that specific fight he was 895 and you were 877. Warcraft logs tracks these things.

You can either sit around and come up with bullshit sims to try and tailor to your argument and continue believing that you did everything right or you can accept the fact that no one is perfect and you have a lot of improving to do with your class. I'd suggest choosing the latter and doing some research while getting some help at the Demon Hunter forums. It'll do you some good.

You really are fucking douche you know that.

I didn't make up a goddamn sim.

The ursoc sim on askmrrobot requires at least 100 secs = 1:40 to run a sim.

No one here that is disguised as being helpful, has provided a single source for a decent benchmark for my ilvl. "You should be doing more isn't helpful." Providing a sim that runs at 860k dps, for my ilvl when the top DH was only pulling 900k doesn't seem off to anybody but me? 40k dps disparity for 18 ilvls?

Clearly, CLEARLY! When I said 20 ilvls... I was using his current ilvl which has him at 903, and my current ilvl which has me at 880. Which is actually 23 ilvl difference.

In any case I am not fudging the numbers for the sake of defending my poor performance. (if it was in fact a poor performance) What is a reasonable benchmark for my ilvl and class.

Infracted

I agree that if the raid lead invited an undergeared person then they should expect lower performance, however it seems the person in question was doing not great for someone with 880 ilevel.

Which is fine?

Where are you getting this data that puts me below par for this benchmark?

That is essentially what I came here for. According to the data I have collected (while low yes) it wasn't isn't too far off from max possible.

[Tremin]

If it's EN then who cares, its filled these days with people running it for AP who do like 600k+ dps, Nighthold is a different thing but hey, bet you did like 800k dps when you had 850 and you were the star of your raid, as long as he does respectable dps his ilvl its not really an issue in there anymore, not like its progress with people doing 600+k left right and center.



Not sure which point you're trying to make, its not hard to dps on a resto druid if you take balance affinity and you're basically half a moonkin and got good gear...
Gz on the dps I guess lol

Unless they buffed starsurge since I played resto druid at the start of the expansion in 7.0, then balance affinity is pointless for dps, back then it was the same dps to just spam wrath even though you used star surge on CD in boomkin affinity. The only way to get insane dps was taking feral affinity and weaving in the dots from feral affinity and keeping the moonfire + sunfire up at the same time as spamming wrath.

[Matthias]

You really are fucking douche you know that.

I didn't make up a goddamn sim.

The ursoc sim on askmrrobot requires at least 100 secs = 1:40 to run a sim.

No one here that is disguised as being helpful, has provided a single source for a decent benchmark for my ilvl. "You should be doing more isn't helpful." Providing a sim that runs at 860k dps, for my ilvl when the top DH was only pulling 900k doesn't seem off to anybody but me? 40k dps disparity for 18 ilvls?

Clearly, CLEARLY! When I said 20 ilvls... I was using his current ilvl which has him at 903, and my current ilvl which has me at 880. Which is actually 23 ilvl difference.

In any case I am not fudging the numbers for the sake of defending my poor performance. (if it was in fact a poor performance) What is a reasonable benchmark for my ilvl and class.

- - - Updated - - -



Which is fine?

Where are you getting this data that puts me below par for this benchmark?

That is essentially what I came here for. According to the data I have collected (while low yes) it wasn't isn't too far off from max possible.

Bro look at the numbers the other people in the raid pulled that are closer to your ilvl, that's all you should need to see. A rogue your same level did nearly 600k, the 2 Monks who are only slightly higher did 650k. It's not rocket science, DHs burst like crazy and for you to do only 350k on such a short fight is bad. Just try to improve, the resources have been provided.

[Morglheim]

You really are fucking douche you know that.

I didn't make up a goddamn sim.

The ursoc sim on askmrrobot requires at least 100 secs = 1:40 to run a sim.

No one here that is disguised as being helpful, has provided a single source for a decent benchmark for my ilvl. "You should be doing more isn't helpful." Providing a sim that runs at 860k dps, for my ilvl when the top DH was only pulling 900k doesn't seem off to anybody but me? 40k dps disparity for 18 ilvls?

Clearly, CLEARLY! When I said 20 ilvls... I was using his current ilvl which has him at 903, and my current ilvl which has me at 880. Which is actually 23 ilvl difference.

In any case I am not fudging the numbers for the sake of defending my poor performance. (if it was in fact a poor performance) What is a reasonable benchmark for my ilvl and class.

- - - Updated - - -



Which is fine?

Where are you getting this data that puts me below par for this benchmark?

That is essentially what I came here for. According to the data I have collected (while low yes) it wasn't isn't too far off from max possible.

Had to make this throwaway just to make this point--- I think you're autistic and need to step back from the game. Clearly you have mental issues that go very deep.

It's a game and you suck at it, why are you going mental over it? Regardless of the fact that havoc is a 2 button (6 with cds) spec that any braindead child should be able to play at 95%+ capabillity and you're clearly failing at it, why do you have to be a complete monkey in regards to finding other dipshits to compare yourself to?

Just my .02, good banter all around here today lads

edit: it's all over a damn NORMAL EN top kek very good banter lads real serious gamers all around

Infracted

[Phookah]

You really are fucking douche you know that.

I didn't make up a goddamn sim.

The ursoc sim on askmrrobot requires at least 100 secs = 1:40 to run a sim.

No one here that is disguised as being helpful, has provided a single source for a decent benchmark for my ilvl. "You should be doing more isn't helpful." Providing a sim that runs at 860k dps, for my ilvl when the top DH was only pulling 900k doesn't seem off to anybody but me? 40k dps disparity for 18 ilvls?

Clearly, CLEARLY! When I said 20 ilvls... I was using his current ilvl which has him at 903, and my current ilvl which has me at 880. Which is actually 23 ilvl difference.

In any case I am not fudging the numbers for the sake of defending my poor performance. (if it was in fact a poor performance) What is a reasonable benchmark for my ilvl and class.

- - - Updated - - -



Which is fine?

Where are you getting this data that puts me below par for this benchmark?

That is essentially what I came here for. According to the data I have collected (while low yes) it wasn't isn't too far off from max possible.

You're asking for something that's incredibly hard to quantify. Trinkets/2-4 set/fight length/getting picked for X mechanic at the start of a fight all have an extremely adverse effect on your dps.

Completely anecdotal but I usually see around 400-450k for 880 ilevel assuming normal fight length (3-5 minutes).
Your fight was considerably shorter, which should lead to much higher dps, i.e my 886 DH regularly bursts 1.4 million in the opener and then steadily falls as meta and hero fall off.

[Ghazan Julio]

So yeah... title... read it.

I'm just now bothering with EN normal (mainly to complete quests and artifact skin) and this happened.

Now I don't run recount these days (or wasn't) because the most I do is LFR.

But this really bothered me. I don't consider myself a bad player, I used to top the meters back in ICC days.

So I downloaded recount, and I ran some sims for my character. Gonna do something no one does... out myself...
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...thazzar/simple

When I ran the sims I was still at 877. Which gave me ~480K dps

According to this website at 865 average is ~373K DPS
http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankin...865-fight-max/

and at 885 ~500k dps
http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankin...885-fight-max/

Last night in raids and dungeons I was pulling ~510K dps max.

Bottom line is, whether I have pugged EN Normal, or am just doing a LFR I'm never asleep at the wheel. Now the raid leader that kicked me didn't whisper the logs. But regardless of what dps a/the healer was able to dish out, if I was in this ballpark would you have kicked me? I can't force something that isn't there and I'm actually performing better than sims... not sure what else I could have done. Now I am inclined to write the guy off as an elitest jerk and call it a day. I don't think the problem is/was me. If I'm wrong and you see room for improvement (beyond the "lulz get better gear") then please let me know.

You wouldn't have made it into my raid to start with.

[A dot Ham]

It might be harsh, but honestly I wasn't even really agreeing that he should have been kicked until the point in which he stated that he was "more awake" than the other DH implying that he was playing better considering not only the damage being the clear indicator, but the other DH performs at 90th+ percentile for their ilvl in Heroic NH. That's just foolish to be so self centered that you think the problem with your damage isn't your skill level and/or knowledge of the class. Especially when other DH's around his gear level we're capable of as high as ~800K on that same fight at a similar fight length. OP is clearly delusional to the truth.

The point... is/was that I wasn't asleep at the wheel and was doing everything according to the momentum spec requires. Had I not been... I wouldn't have had the same number of casts, nor the same number of annihilates.

It is entirely possible I am doing something wrong or my spec is wrong... the point was I wasn't NOT contributing. I wasn't playing with my dick while everyone else was participating. Which is the general tone when I was summarily removed.

[Arbiter]

You really are fucking douche you know that.

I didn't make up a goddamn sim.

The ursoc sim on askmrrobot requires at least 100 secs = 1:40 to run a sim.

No one here that is disguised as being helpful, has provided a single source for a decent benchmark for my ilvl. "You should be doing more isn't helpful." Providing a sim that runs at 860k dps, for my ilvl when the top DH was only pulling 900k doesn't seem off to anybody but me? 40k dps disparity for 18 ilvls?

Clearly, CLEARLY! When I said 20 ilvls... I was using his current ilvl which has him at 903, and my current ilvl which has me at 880. Which is actually 23 ilvl difference.

In any case I am not fudging the numbers for the sake of defending my poor performance. (if it was in fact a poor performance) What is a reasonable benchmark for my ilvl and class.

I'm a douche? You flat out admitted that you felt like you did better than the other DH.

I didn't say you made up a sim. I said you're using bullshit sims to try and tailor your argument. I don't really care what the minimum is, you can't try and base your damage of a ~45 second fight on a sim for a 210 second fight.

You want a decent source? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=6
Here. 875 ilvl. 47 second fight on the same boss. He also doesn't have any tier pieces so that can't even be an excuse.

His current ilvl is irrelevant just like yours is. The only relevant information is the ilvl the both of you were during the fight and the talents/gear used.

This kind of information is easily available and people shouldn't have to do the work for you just because you're not willing to consider the maybe the problem with the damage is yourself. Anyone's biggest problem when it comes to finding a problem in raids is assuming that they themselves can't possible be the issue. You clearly know how how to use warcraft logs and nothing was stopping you from checking the other DH's performance percentile to see where he stands versus you (yours is pretty low on the only fight recorded). Now I'm not going to pretend that the other DH did everything right in that fight (others his ilvl have ranked much higher) but it certainly a much better attempt than yours and no one should have to show you the obvious.

[A dot Ham]

Had to make this throwaway just to make this point--- I think you're autistic and need to step back from the game. Clearly you have mental issues that go very deep.

It's a game and you suck at it, why are you going mental over it? Regardless of the fact that havoc is a 2 button (6 with cds) spec that any braindead child should be able to play at 95%+ capabillity and you're clearly failing at it, why do you have to be a complete monkey in regards to finding other dipshits to compare yourself to?

Just my .02, good banter all around here today lads

edit: it's all over a damn NORMAL EN top kek very good banter lads real serious gamers all around

Arbiter no doubt. I feel so humbled that your one and only post was in this thread. Food for thought... they can see your IP. If you think that somehow protects you from a ban/infraction your wrong.