Blizz, are you insane, drunk or do you just want to kill all wws?

[Deleted]

Mhm when I look at the logs it's rather something like:

FoF 20% overall damage - 20% nerf means 4% less damage overall
5% on Blackout Kick, Tiger Palm and Rising Sun Kick is 30%+(0.05x30)=31.5% - 1.5% buff overall

In the end it's a 2.5% damage nerf for WW in ST (and even more in AoE). I don't think our artifact skill will see it's damage increased, neither for Whirling Dragon Punch.

Right, feel free to correct Babylonius over at Peakofserenity. No offence intended towards you, but i'll usually take the theorycrafting and number crunching from Babylonius over a randomer on here. I think the difference is that you're assuming that the 5.5% buff is not applying to over half of our attacks, which doesn't marry up with the wording whatsoever.

It's pretty hard to tune ST DPS without buffing AE DPS when they both rely upon the same primary ability; having an AE be our biggest damage source in ST as well is rather ridiculous.Just got to hope that they finish the job in another PTR update. nothing wrong with FoF being useful in ST, but it's too big a chunk for anything reasonable, IMO.

[Nyel]

I don't need to correct anybody, we just have different ways of approaching the nerf / buff. The wording says “most of...“, doesn't it? That's why I doubt they'll increase talents or the artifact skill. For me it seems to be reasonable to buff our usual toolkit except talents and the artifact. I might be wrong (I hope so when this nerf actually goes live) but as a Monk I am not really hopeful about abything Blizzard does.

It would be pretty easy to buff ST DPS - increase BoK and TP damage. Or just let FoF hit 20, 30% harder when it only hits one target (so nerf the AoE damage by 20% but keep it as it is for ST). It's not that hard to balance our DPS but Blizzard just seems unwilling to do so (same issue for Mistweavers).

[Deleted]

Hey, let's draw conclusions from a half-baked initial PTR build for 7.2.5. That always works out.

Might aswell draw them because it's 7.2 nerfs all over again. Blizzard just doesn't listen to the smallest class community in the game.

[Deleted]

like i said earlier.
the numbers i used are from may last krosus mythic fight and i said in a later post i think, that i didnt exclude cleave from sotw and fists.
given that and the fact, that sotw is ready when the first adds arrive, it was in that particular situation and fight a 1.6% dmg increase.

in a pure ST fight, it wont be that high, but tbh: i didnt want to do the complete math right now, since it is a very early stage on the ptr.
i didnt check peakofserenity yet, but that we may deal less damage can be highly possible and i never said anything against that

@Nyel i was thinking of the same buff.
just make fof hit harder if it hits just one target. same with rsk, bk and tp.
that would solve the problem with absolutly bad st dmg in seconds...

but i assume blizz has to do some fancy stuff to make people believe they actually think, before they apply a change ...

[Lycanoth]

Hey, let's draw conclusions from a half-baked initial PTR build for 7.2.5. That always works out.

With how many terrible changes across several classes including monk that have went live from previous PTRs do you really blame people for freaking out?

Now I can agree that it is the first cycle and some more changes could come but it is never a bad thing to show some concern early. I would honestly go ahead and say not caring because it is early PTR is causing more potential harm than good with the way Blizzard handles things.

This so called "Improved Communication" would be great here. If blizzard made a post saying we are doing X because of Y and Z it would alleviate some of the anger. People would still be upset regardless but at least then that anger would have a direction of Why? Instead of people trying to figure out Blizzards logic through zero context.

[Deleted]

With how many terrible changes across several classes including monk that have went live from previous PTRs do you really blame people for freaking out?

Now I can agree that it is the first cycle and some more changes could come but it is never a bad thing to show some concern early. I would honestly go ahead and say not caring because it is early PTR is causing more potential harm than good with the way Blizzard handles things.

This so called "Improved Communication" would be great here. If blizzard made a post saying we are doing X because of Y and Z it would alleviate some of the anger. People would still be upset regardless but at least then that anger would have a direction of Why? Instead of people trying to figure out Blizzards logic through zero context.

Can't blame you for being worried; I'm worried, but it's got to be preparation for other changes. That's the only logic I can see. Sure, they could up other numbers, but hey. All i can see is that a negligible change to our ST damage implies they're looking at moving damage of spells around and disassociating ST/AE, maybe upping burst or something.

"Improved communication", WWs. Those two do not go together, and blizz have treated us, as a class, like dirt so far wrt communication. Serenity, FFS? Stealth bugfix to make it trash, promised a buff that never arrived? Half a year before our signature spell got fixed to be usable - and it started out as a DPS CD that REDUCED our DPS! Genius!

[Saverem]

If you don't ever want to stress about being bottom tier, roll a Pally or Druid, ever since vanilla they've had at least one spec that was either best or second best in game.

Right now Druids dominate tanking and healing and all 3 Paladin specs are top tier.

This is probably because they're the top 2 most played classes and thus ALWAYS get representations. When their community cries, Blizz listens. Monk community has like 3 people in it and Blizz ignores them.

[Lycanoth]

If you don't ever want to stress about being bottom tier, roll a Pally or Druid, ever since vanilla they've had at least one spec that was either best or second best in game.

Right now Druids dominate tanking and healing and all 3 Paladin specs are top tier.

This is probably because they're the top 2 most played classes and thus ALWAYS get representations. When their community cries, Blizz listens. Monk community has like 3 people in it and Blizz ignores them.

As someone who re-rolled from druid to monk I can not disagree with you more. Yes Their tank and healing specs are doing amazing right now but the 2 dps specs are not doing so well and we have been asking for changes since legion alpha and have 100% been ignored with the occasional aura buffs when blizzard had to do something to keep the 2 specs somewhat playable. The grass is not greener on the other side.

My biggest concern right now is not necessarily low dps numbers but a complete overhaul on the specs play style. I am honestly getting tired of having to re-learn the same spec every patch because Blizzard suddenly wants you to play that way instead. Pretty much the main reasons why I went from Blood DK to Feral and now WW Monk.

[thesmall001]

This will shift some damage away from our cleave and into our ST whilst improving the usability of our cleave. I really don't see the issue.

[Saverem]

As someone who re-rolled from druid to monk I can not disagree with you more. Yes Their tank and healing specs are doing amazing right now but the 2 dps specs are not doing so well

So rerolling to WW was your second mistake, lol. I think Boomkins are in a better place than WWs right now. They rival them in AoE, plus they have the advantage of being ranged in a melee-heavy world and they have the utility advantage. Can't tell you how many times Innervate helped me (MW) out in Mythic raiding.

[Deleted]

Did they just gut monk AoE?

[Nerovar]

Reading this thread I'd really like to know what mmo-champs think of Legion Windwalker in general (meaning class design). Is it just me or did they completely tear apart a spec that was completely healthy and fun to play in WoD and MoP?

[Deleted]

Well... the spec was quite hard to play optimally, but had some awesome comboes that made it fun to play. (ie. aerial chi torpedo for aoe burst)

Now it's easy to play, but has nothing interesting going on aside don't press same ability twice in a row.

[Ustabil]

Little confused what blizzard is aiming towards with these changes.

Ok our AoE is decent with SeF, and FoF is a lot of that dmg, but if they wanna push more of our dmg towards the ST-spells why not just make Touch of Death a interesting spell again. It is a 2 min CD that does less dmg than FoF and SotW, Buffing ToD to 75% Max HP for PvE will make both our ST some better and the Glove legendaries would also then compete with the others. Also feel like just upping the BoK and TP dmg would be nice as well. But just small buffs to TP , BOK and RSK dont rly help much when nerfing FoF that much. Guess it just goes to show, that blizzard still dont know how to balance even after gutting how SEF works =/

[Vzz]

1.5% overall buff? I take it anytime.

[Shibito]

This is why i skipped my ww this expansion was the same in mop and wod when i played ww we WILL be nerfed

[ReD-EyeD]

1.5% overall buff? I take it anytime.

It's not. Well, not exactly. It's a very slight buff on single target IF and ONLY IF they've buffed all abilities, but they said "most". And its a nerf on aoe.

[Oziemaster]

If they don't want our AoE spells to be really good for single target then buff tiger palm, chi wave, rising sun kick, black out kick, crackling jade lightning, and xuen. The damage that blackout kick, chi wave, and tiger palm do is pathetic. Buff the damage from these spells to give us consistency in single target. Even an energy reduction cost on tiger palm would go a long way but that could be too strong for AoE.

[Ustabil]

Kinda feel like they made a huge miste WoD -> Legion where they could do huge changes. SeF clearly cant be fully balanced, but the current one isnt to bad, very easy for new players to pick up and very forgiving comapared to old SEF. Would not mind this new SEF at all if it hadnt ment that we lost tigereye brew as offensive CD (a CD that was very interesting)

They should have just made SEF a talent, Make us choose between RJW, SEF, Hit Combo
- Give us Xuen as our baseline Offensive CD instead
- Make our class fantasy more about Xuen than this Storm Earth Fire
- Make haste reduce the GCD on all abillities more and give more energy regen (to not make the class super energy starved)
- Maybe make mastery not affect every spell, but TP gives next BoK a buff, BoK gives next RSK buff, RSK gives next FoF a buff and FoF gives next TP a buff, and these buff might be something more interesting than just flat %

8.0 The dream =/

[sharteel]

This will shift some damage away from our cleave and into our ST whilst improving the usability of our cleave. I really don't see the issue.

This will shift some damage away from our cleave (like, 1% increase in ST?) whist DECREASING the usability of our cleave.