Fire Buff...too much, not enough. Good start.

[Magictricks]

Pulling numbers out of nowhere helps no-one.
20% buff would make fire no.1 or 2 spec on AOE and ST. Just go through the mythic raid logs and add 20% dmg increase to the average... for instance on star augur fire would be just below affliction(which lets be honest is currently broken af), that really would not be acceptable when most range specs don't excel at multiple dmg roles and would make fire a heavy outlier that can perform way to good on ST and AOE.

you mean like warlocks are?

[wizardsnz]

im pretty sure frost gain little buff caused they fuck tv now and they said they want give love to frozen touch .
with nerfing tv hands gonna lost value too

[mage21]

As others have said, not enough. My fire mage with bis bracers simming 125k below my under-AP'd and no-bis legendaries frost spec (165k below if ignoring 6% buff).

[nukie]

Couple of things on this.

1. Its a good a start. Its better then not getting anything at all until 7.2.5.
2. Some of you guys seem to be under the impression that because we got this 6% now means we wont get any other buffs in 7.2.5. Relax.
3. Some of you guys seem to be under the impression that slow mass aoe is good for anything (its not needed/meaningful on any current content).
4. Its perfectly fine for Fire and Frost to do the same ST dps as long as frost has the 2-3 target niche and Fire has the "mass aoe" people are scared of. Frost will still win on its favored fights like Botanist, and Fire on fights like Skorp. Seems balanced to me.
5. Fire needs another 10% damage buff to ST to be competitive and that should come in 7.2.5. Id be happy to give up some meaningless mass aoe to get it and just be middle of the pack.

[lockybalboa]

So are the changes live now already? Quick look at pyro damage seems to suggest it has been buffed.

[Zardam]

Fire is roughly 30% behind in ST damage. It is not good at cleave. It is not good at aoe if there are less than 10 targets. The spec is broken, the ability to do mass aoe is not useful enough in raids to warrant it being so far behind in st. Fire should do competitive st damage and have the nich of mass aoe. This 6% buff still leaves fire in the gutter.

And for all you people saying "relax, there's more on the way! Surely they can't leave fire that low!" Remember that joke of a 4% buff after 7.1.5, the last buff fire revived before this one...For months...

[nukie]

Ever asked the fire mage why?

I would be fine going frost if I had a better frost relic

Unrelated to the conversation point on relics and frost. I play fire and tried frost for a hot minute. I got a BIS arcane relic for frost (915 let it go) and put it in my frost weapon instead of upgrading my 905 arcane relic in my fire weapon. I know it was the right decision especially if i might play frost, but i still regret it lol..

[Gamer8585]

Good start. I would like to see PI buffed back up again (the nerfing from 5% to 2% per stack really hurt in conjunction with the nerfing of crit) I'm not saying it should go as high as 5% again (giving an overall 25% damage bonus if you can keep it maxed), but maybe to 3 or 4? I think UM also needs to have its consistency buffed up a 25% chance to proc is just too low 50%+ for fire would be better. Right now while UM is theoretically better for single target many fire mages don't feel like its worth the time switching from LB because the bonus damage is unreliable, and having LB ready for adds (or to power though trash) feels better.

Fire is pretty garbage on ST right now, and I hope the extra 6% helps, but I'm not sure its going to be enough on its own.

[gallamann]

I am so TIRED of this argument that our specs need to have niches. Stop with it already.

We should all be united in a common message to Blizzard, "all three specs can preform all DPS tasks equally, flavor comes via how they preform those tasks"

There is zero reason Frost couldn't AoE as well as Fire, or that Fire couldn't ST as well as Frost... etc... (and I don't mean to exclude arcane)

This expansion has made swapping spec's horrendous, if Blizzard continues with that theme in future expansions, we are all going to deeply regret re-enforcing this spec niche argument.

[Zenfoldor]

I'm not sure it's gonna put me though the moon on single target, but 6% really helps me out mentally. I'm already destroying my raid when it comes to overall damage(including trash) and that's the metric I like to tout, so I'm happy with it. Hopefully we'll get some additional ST buffs before 7.2.5

ETA: If your raid can't game trash well, that little trash pull just before spellblade, you can pop lb, combustion, rop, and the krosus trinket and hit well over 15m dps(iirc I've been at 20m there) when the shard lands at the same time the lb pops.

Is it viable and great for the end game? No. However, it sure is nice to see a huge group of adds die in a blinding flash of purple light while your raid ooos and ahhss in discord.

I also got a 99% rank for my ilvl(900ish) on h spellblade week before last using similar tricks.

[nukie]

I am so TIRED of this argument that our specs need to have niches. Stop with it already.

We should all be united in a common message to Blizzard, "all three specs can preform all DPS tasks equally, flavor comes via how they preform those tasks"

There is zero reason Frost couldn't AoE as well as Fire, or that Fire couldn't ST as well as Frost... etc... (and I don't mean to exclude arcane)

This expansion has made swapping spec's horrendous, if Blizzard continues with that theme in future expansions, we are all going to deeply regret re-enforcing this spec niche argument.

Could not agree more.

To be honest and expand on this, as long as single target damage is equal among the three specs, i could not care less what they do/dont do with "niche" dps situations.

[Armourboy]

I am so TIRED of this argument that our specs need to have niches. Stop with it already.

We should all be united in a common message to Blizzard, "all three specs can preform all DPS tasks equally, flavor comes via how they preform those tasks"

There is zero reason Frost couldn't AoE as well as Fire, or that Fire couldn't ST as well as Frost... etc... (and I don't mean to exclude arcane)

This expansion has made swapping spec's horrendous, if Blizzard continues with that theme in future expansions, we are all going to deeply regret re-enforcing this spec niche argument.

So true, especially when you have multiple specs of other classes that can do it all with just a talent swap. That is the biggie. Talents for each spec should be set up so that you have a multi-target option and a ST option. The difference in the specs should come in look and feel, but the numbers should be roughly the same for all 3 specs.

Frost and Arcane should be able to compete with Fire on AOE if the talents are there. Fire and Arcane should compete with Frost on ST as long as the talents are there. The problem isn't the specs, it's that Blizzard isn't really using talents they way they should be imo.

We should all be on the same side on this deal. If you like Arcane more than Fire, then that's what you should be able to play, and neither should be forced to play Frost just because the Devs can't balance things and build talents correctly. On the other hand, those that really do like Frost shouldn't feel the need to constantly defend the spec in fear that they are going to get nerfs.

No one should be fighting anyone else over this, we should all be in Blizzards face over this mess, especially with how they did Legendaries and Artifacts.

[Deleted]

Yes buff fire so he has same st dps as frost! But ofc leave aoe!... guys please u can't have everything

The way you think makes me cry. Everyone should be good at everything. The issue here is that Fire Mages are good at only one thing yet in certain situations can still be worse off and then just bad at the other thing. If everyone was good at everything then what matters would be the player and the playstyle of the class/spec. This just isn't the case with Mages at all.

[Alvito]

The problem is an extreme imbalance between single target and aoe, this is nice but doesn't really fix the issue. Waiting on 7.2.5 with 6% more damage than we used to have is welcome though.

Yeah, for fights that fire was already good they just got a nice boost. On the fights they were weak they are still a shitty option.

[Afflik]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Fire was viable, although clearly not the best option even before this 6% buff. I don't even have Whispers or Belt and I was competing just fine, even on ST fights like the one linked. Yes - we are weak ST DPS, but can still be viable if played well. The 6% is going to be an added bonus.

[Sam the Wiser]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Fire was viable, although clearly not the best option even before this 6% buff. I don't even have Whispers or Belt and I was competing just fine, even on ST fights like the one linked. Yes - we are weak ST DPS, but can still be viable if played well. The 6% is going to be an added bonus.

Dude half your DPS are legit bad, lul. Anyhow, fire still is shit.

[Afflik]

Dude half your DPS are legit bad, lul. Anyhow, fire still is shit.

TONS of useful information there. What a thoughtful post.

[metroidgirl]

Fire was viable, although clearly not the best option even before this 6% buff. I don't even have Whispers or Belt and I was competing just fine, even on ST fights like the one linked. Yes - we are weak ST DPS, but can still be viable if played well. The 6% is going to be an added bonus.

You see that 908 hunter that is out-DPSing you with 67%perf compered to your 91%? That's what people are upset about. Obviously affl locks are broken so I'm not going to get started on that, but there's no good reason for the disparity to be that high for someone lower ilvl than you.

You are also ilvl 911. For those in the 902ish range whose guilds are still on Krosus, we feel pretty damn useless. MProgression is important, MFarm is not.

[metroidgirl]

Fire was viable, although clearly not the best option even before this 6% buff. I don't even have Whispers or Belt and I was competing just fine, even on ST fights like the one linked. Yes - we are weak ST DPS, but can still be viable if played well. The 6% is going to be an added bonus.

You see that 908 hunter that is out-DPSing you with 67%perf compared to your 91%? That's what people are upset about. Obviously affl locks are broken so I'm not going to get started on that.

You are also ilvl 911. For those in the 902ish range whose guilds are still on Krosus, we feel pretty damn useless. MProgression is important, MFarm is not.

You ALSO have two very strong legendaries for fire, and that hunter has poop.

[mage21]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Fire was viable, although clearly not the best option even before this 6% buff. I don't even have Whispers or Belt and I was competing just fine, even on ST fights like the one linked. Yes - we are weak ST DPS, but can still be viable if played well. The 6% is going to be an added bonus.

I mean, you do have the bis bracers and an upper-crust ilvl of 911. I'm not taking anything away from your accomplishment, you clearly played well, but I really don't think that's a good example of fire mages being just fine.