Fire Buff...too much, not enough. Good start.

[stevenho]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Fire was viable, although clearly not the best option even before this 6% buff. I don't even have Whispers or Belt and I was competing just fine, even on ST fights like the one linked. Yes - we are weak ST DPS, but can still be viable if played well. The 6% is going to be an added bonus.

I was 908 on my 1st augur kill, died twice cause I sucked that try.
Did 50k more DPS than you.
Fire is pure shit.

[Vexione]

So, I just did H NH. The 6% buff isn't enough, but it's better than nothing. lol at those saying "Fire for Skorp" because even frost mages now out-dps fire on Skorp (Heroic) even after the 6% buff. For other bosses, we're still a good 150k or more dps behind Frost, and this is with Belt/Bracers. I'm not a "Pro" player but I'm not a bad player either, having been Fire since EN.

[antelope591]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Fire was viable, although clearly not the best option even before this 6% buff. I don't even have Whispers or Belt and I was competing just fine, even on ST fights like the one linked. Yes - we are weak ST DPS, but can still be viable if played well. The 6% is going to be an added bonus.

That's good dps for fire on that fight not to take it away from you, but a frost mage and most melee could do that in their sleep without even having BIS legendaries. That's kinda the whole thing people have an issue with.

[Deleted]

Good buff. cannot be much more since fire is not intended to be a ST spec.
if you go +20% buff, the result is just insane in case of 4+ targets stacked.

--

It might be personal view but this buff feels like "hey, don't forget about fire spec, it will still be ok for some fights".
-> I'm putting some AP on fire weapon now just to increase AOE damages. First traits are not so expensive btw

[Manabomb]

That's good dps for fire on that fight not to take it away from you, but a frost mage and most melee could do that in their sleep without even having BIS legendaries. That's kinda the whole thing people have an issue with.

I wonder when you people will realize this is a player created problem.

[Deleted]

So, I just did H NH. The 6% buff isn't enough, but it's better than nothing. lol at those saying "Fire for Skorp" because even frost mages now out-dps fire on Skorp (Heroic) even after the 6% buff. For other bosses, we're still a good 150k or more dps behind Frost, and this is with Belt/Bracers. I'm not a "Pro" player but I'm not a bad player either, having been Fire since EN.

Your problem is that you are always comparing to frost.

Fire isnt weak at single target. It is quite strong. On first evening after buffs there are already many fire mages puöling nice numbers. On Star Augur best fire mage is 943, best elemental is 900k. I bet we will see some fire mages pulling 1m this week.

Frost is currently op so if everyone started comparong to frost mages, they would need to buff everyone but affli locks.

[FrostyButt]

Your problem is that you are always comparing to frost.

Fire isnt weak at single target. It is quite strong. On first evening after buffs there are already many fire mages puöling nice numbers. On Star Augur best fire mage is 943, best elemental is 900k. I bet we will see some fire mages pulling 1m this week.

Frost is currently op so if everyone started comparong to frost mages, they would need to buff everyone but affli locks.

I don't understand why so many people claim Frost Mage to be overpowered. We're for the most part middle of the pack. We do REALLY well on maybe 3 bosses. We do exceptionally well on Star Augur because that is pretty much our Patchwreck fight of the raid. Of course we're going to wreck face on that boss, we don't have to move around much or target switch.

No need to nerf Frost into oblivion. Buff Arcane and Fire. I don't understand why Blizzard doesn't want a pure DPS class to have all their specs viable. =/

[Deleted]

I don't understand why so many people claim Frost Mage to be overpowered. We're for the most part middle of the pack. We do REALLY well on maybe 3 bosses. We do exceptionally well on Star Augur because that is pretty much our Patchwreck fight of the raid. Of course we're going to wreck face on that boss, we don't have to move around much or target switch.

No need to nerf Frost into oblivion. Buff Arcane and Fire. I don't understand why Blizzard doesn't want a pure DPS class to have all their specs viable. =/

Perhaps because the rankings are full of frost mages and our frost mage pulled 1.1m dps on Trilliax.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...e=1&dataset=99

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=1&dataset=100

As long as frost mages pull insane dps like they currently do, you gotta live with that.

[kheath812]

Your problem is that you are always comparing to frost.

Fire isnt weak at single target. It is quite strong. On first evening after buffs there are already many fire mages puöling nice numbers. On Star Augur best fire mage is 943, best elemental is 900k. I bet we will see some fire mages pulling 1m this week.

Frost is currently op so if everyone started comparong to frost mages, they would need to buff everyone but affli locks.

anecdotal evidence doesnt mean anything when there's logs. fire single target is not strong.

- - - Updated - - -

Perhaps because the rankings are full of frost mages and our frost mage pulled 1.1m dps on Trilliax.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...e=1&dataset=99

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=1&dataset=100

As long as frost mages pull insane dps like they currently do, you gotta live with that.

lol, putting it to 99th and 100th percentile skews your point a little bit. putting it at 90th, frost is 4th, and affliction is a big tick above anything else. 4th place is hardly overpowered.

[fiestatastic]

Perhaps because the rankings are full of frost mages and our frost mage pulled 1.1m dps on Trilliax.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...e=1&dataset=99

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=1&dataset=100

As long as frost mages pull insane dps like they currently do, you gotta live with that.

The rankings aren't full of frost mages. Frost has an incredibly high ceiling with perfect gear, insane rng, played in melee while ignoring ranged mechanics, and gamed double ice lancing. You literally linked perfect or nearly perfect parses only.

This is what frost really looks like: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...e=1&dataset=50 For most people. You can choose any other percentile that isn't right at the top for similar results.

[antelope591]

The rankings aren't full of frost mages. Frost has an incredibly high ceiling with perfect gear, insane rng, played in melee while ignoring ranged mechanics, and gamed double ice lancing. You literally linked perfect or nearly perfect parses only.

This is what frost really looks like: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...e=1&dataset=50 For most people. You can choose any other percentile that isn't right at the top for similar results.

Your realize people made this exact same argument for S2M and that got nerfed to the ground...hell fire got nerfed to the ground because people were cheesing Xavius tenacles ffs. Blizz doesn't care about any of this shit, their mantra is to nerf the class on top of logs if they dominate the majority of fights. Its that simple.

[FrostyButt]

Perhaps because the rankings are full of frost mages and our frost mage pulled 1.1m dps on Trilliax.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...e=1&dataset=99

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=1&dataset=100

As long as frost mages pull insane dps like they currently do, you gotta live with that.

Dude.

The only way you're hitting 99 to 100 percentile in mythic is with flawless play and GOD-LIKE RNG. Frost lives or dies by their RNG. If you get horrible FoF/BF procs, you are going to be getting smashed by pretty much everyone else. BUT.. If you get that god-like RNG.. Watch the fuck out because you will be killing it on the DPS meters.

It's actually funny.. The other frost mage in my guild always jokes about it with me.. Like when he is in the top 3 and I'm in the bottom 3, he's like "Bad RNG huh?" and then the very next pull we will swap places.. I will be in the top 3 and he will be in the bottom 3..

[kheath812]

Dude.

The only way you're hitting 99 to 100 percentile in mythic is with flawless play and GOD-LIKE RNG. lol

and also completely ignore mechanics. frost suffers heavily if you ever have to leave range of the boss, to, you know, do your job.

[D3athsting]

Fire on skopryron is only good when ppl fail at knockback and pull 1000.000 scorpions or you deliberately pull them for padding, anyway this can be quite problematic in mythic

[Deleted]

anecdotal evidence doesnt mean anything when there's logs. fire single target is not strong.

- - - Updated - - -



lol, putting it to 99th and 100th percentile skews your point a little bit. putting it at 90th, frost is 4th, and affliction is a big tick above anything else. 4th place is hardly overpowered.

There was no point but to show what insane potential frost has and why people keep telling how strong frost is.

I can tell you that no elememtal shaman cam pull 1.2m on Trilliax. And every top elemental got their top log by ignoring mechanics.

They just dont have the same insane dmg potential.

If double IL is the problem they gotta fix it and they probably will.

[Imaskar]

Why are you bringing 100th percentile? Yes, frost can go out of control on very high gear. But most people play in 33-95th percentile. And in that range frost is only 4th, under demo locks for example. This is what matters, not some cheesing.

[kheath812]

There was no point but to show what insane potential frost has and why people keep telling how strong frost is.

I can tell you that no elememtal shaman cam pull 1.2m on Trilliax. And every top elemental got their top log by ignoring mechanics.

They just dont have the same insane dmg potential.

If double IL is the problem they gotta fix it and they probably will.

elemental's role is much closer to fire than it is to frost. their aoe damage is insane. of course they dont compare to frost's single target.

[Deleted]

elemental's role is much closer to fire than it is to frost. their aoe damage is insane. of course they dont compare to frost's single target.

That was my point. Fire is absolutely in line with other caster specs.

It looks only bad compared to frost but every caster looks bad compared to frost right now. Our frost mage is topping metres on every boss. 1.2m yesterday on Trilliax, 100k ahead of affli locks and 250k ahead of the 3rd place... 450k ahead of our worst dpd that didnt die.

They cant go with this screwed balancing into TOS.

[stevenho]

Our frost mage is topping metres on every boss. 1.2m yesterday on Trilliax, 100k ahead of affli locks and 250k ahead of the 3rd place... 450k ahead of our worst dpd that didnt die.

Looks like your mage is the only one that doesn't suck at the game.

[Deleted]

That was my point. Fire is absolutely in line with other caster specs.

It looks only bad compared to frost but every caster looks bad compared to frost right now. Our frost mage is topping metres on every boss. 1.2m yesterday on Trilliax, 100k ahead of affli locks and 250k ahead of the 3rd place... 450k ahead of our worst dpd that didnt die.

They cant go with this screwed balancing into TOS.

Consdiering this argument has been going on since first page.
Is this about:
1. its justified to nerf frost?
or
2. Tv change is justified?
3. or what?

Because if it's about point 1 i think your being a bit obtuse. Maybe others are as well. Since both sides of the argument linked data. And again at 99%+ it's too strong but 90% and below it's fine.

99% is such a small fraction. And another important factor is that frost TV desires to extremely tunnelvision ignore tactics.
Question is than should such a spec:Frost TV, Frost DK and S2M 7.1 priest excist . Is it acceptable they deal more dmg than other specs when they are allowed to tunnel. (say 3%-5%?)

Since i suspect your so focused on nerf is justfified, could you agree with this statement:
On 99%+ Frost could use a nerf but their on a good in 75-90%
(ignoring the fact that the 99% players skews lower % higher)