10 rated bg wins for challenge skin

[Shadowfury]

I m sorry about this qq post, but this requirement for a skin for an item you get from pve is just bullshit move from blizzard, other classes might not care about this particular skin but for our class it looks badass. Not gonna lie, I m average when it comes to pvp because I don't play it almost at all, last time I did some rbgs was in Cata, and with pugs when they don't ask for 2k+ rating is just plain aids most of the time to play any cooperative thing, and not just pvp. What do you guys think?

[micwini]

The artifact system is the main feature of this expansion. It spans to both PvE and PvP, so there are PvP things in there.
That would be like saying PvP transmog sets are locked behind PvPing is bad because transmog is PvE feature :/

[SinR]

you must have hated the MOP legendary grind then if this is make or break for you

What about your 1000 HK for your 4th skin on your Hidden Artifact?

[Shadowfury]

That 1k hks you get by just playing the game, not rated bgs. There is no requirement to kill mythic Gul'dan or KJ for any skin so yeah. There is an entire pvp look with 4 skins just for doing pvp, they should've stopped there imo. Or put so you can get it from normal bg wins.

edit: about mop, yeah, but it was just 2 regular bgs to win, not 10 rated

[Adoxe]

There are people who enjoy both PvP and PvE, aswell as those who only PvP. I am not one of them but I am not going to ignore their existence just because I don't like something. The world doesn't revolve around you and your preferences.

you must have hated the MOP legendary grind then if this is make or break for you

What about your 1000 HK for your 4th skin on your Hidden Artifact?

Sorry for going off topic, but calling 2 BG wins a grind is pretty stupid.

[Korkk]

10 rated bg wins is comparable to the heroic KJ kill that's required for one of the other colors. Hell, some might even consider the 10 rated bg wins easier, if you happen to find a "yolo rbg" group. Not all content/rewards are for everyone.

[nexellent]

You mean, just like all the artifact skins that require pve to do? Pvp'rs don't like that either, but put up with it.

[Raiju]

you must have hated the MOP legendary grind then if this is make or break for you

What about your 1000 HK for your 4th skin on your Hidden Artifact?

Was bugged and was granting off deaths in raids, along with being able to farm bots for the skin in about 30mins from start to finish.

[Resentless]

That 1k hks you get by just playing the game, not rated bgs. There is no requirement to kill mythic Gul'dan or KJ for any skin so yeah. There is an entire pvp look with 4 skins just for doing pvp, they should've stopped there imo. Or put so you can get it from normal bg wins.

edit: about mop, yeah, but it was just 2 regular bgs to win, not 10 rated

10 rbg wins is literally some simple shit. Easily less difficult than getting into a pug that can kill heroic KJ. I'm mad theres a heroic level skin in there, and youre mad about 10 rbg wins which you can do at any CR? dear me.

[Daan]

10 rbg wins is literally some simple shit. Easily less difficult than getting into a pug that can kill heroic KJ. I'm mad theres a heroic level skin in there, and youre mad about 10 rbg wins which you can do at any CR? dear me.

10 rbg wins are easier than a heroic raidboss kill? Come on, with 7.3 KJ heroic will be faceroll, but finding groups for the rbg wins can be hard if you play a crap spec for it. Moreover most rbg groups want achievements like 2k rating or something. It's utterly fail from Blizzard that you have to do rated pvp for a pve based skin.

[Vanyali]

10 rbg wins are easier than a heroic raidboss kill? Come on, with 7.3 KJ heroic will be faceroll, but finding groups for the rbg wins can be hard if you play a crap spec for it. Moreover most rbg groups want achievements like 2k rating or something. It's utterly fail from Blizzard that you have to do rated pvp for a pve based skin.

I'm 6/9 wins as a PVE hero that's so pvp stupid I often forget to respec after grabbing a random RBG group. Started at 0 rating, now at 1100ish. Never linked anything to a leader in my life.

If you think havoc and venge are "crappy specs" to play in pvp... lol. looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool. Any flag map is waving at you right now.

and heroic KJ isn't going to be faceroll for a few months into the tier, if it's anything like heroic gul'dan. You're not going to get into a random group that casually does it with zero pve experience, while the opposite doesn't hold true for pvp.

Ten wins are a joke. And it's a completely optional skin.

[Deleted]

10 rbg wins are easier than a heroic raidboss kill? Come on, with 7.3 KJ heroic will be faceroll, but finding groups for the rbg wins can be hard if you play a crap spec for it. Moreover most rbg groups want achievements like 2k rating or something. It's utterly fail from Blizzard that you have to do rated pvp for a pve based skin.

Sorry but no. The PvPers appearance is CRAP.

It is completely acceptable ONE of the four challenge tints is PvP based, just because you think it's the best colour is subjective and unlucky.

I don't PvP but I zero problem with it.

[Leih]

As much as it's fair to have some skins be PVP based and some skins be PVE based, the Artifact Challenge things are a PVE skill-test, it seems really odd to have a tint that involves PVP be locked behind something that requires PVE skill and gear to unlock? It's not really a big complaint, but it seems like such a weird decision.

[javen]

It's the 'rated' parts that has me bummed.

I'm fine with having to win X number of BGs, especially for a cosmetic item, but having to group for them is suddenly much more of a pain

[Kevetic]

As someone who's NVER PVP'D completely only raid.. for the first time I set out to PVP for this skin. I got it in a day with several different yolo pugs and it was a fucking blast! Not to say it wasn't frustrating, but to experience PVP and take a break from PVE was awesome. After I got the skin I continued to try to climb ranking, I think I'm around 1600 now. So I don't see the issues, it was absolutely achievable.

[BrioWoW]

As much as it's fair to have some skins be PVP based and some skins be PVE based, the Artifact Challenge things are a PVE skill-test, it seems really odd to have a tint that involves PVP be locked behind something that requires PVE skill and gear to unlock? It's not really a big complaint, but it seems like such a weird decision.

Yeah, this is the strange part. It would be like if one of the skins in the pvp row required you to clear NH or something.

[javen]

It's not really that it's a PVE challenge, it was always billed as 'mastery of your spec' so it makes sense to have multiple play types showcased. Mastery of your spec in solo play for the model itself, followed by mastery of your spec in dungeons, raids and PVP. Granted some bars were set much lower than others, but that's seems to have been what they're going for.

[Extremity]

It seems interesting that they did this after the TREMENDOUS debate about "PVP for PVE content" with prior legendaries, ie the ring or the cloak (I can't remember which; maybe both?), and I'm pretty sure I recall them saying they wouldn't do it again.

Now, to be fair, this is a hidden appearance for the entire spec and it technically isn't PVE-exclusive. It has no PVE requirements in terms of raids or anything else and anybody can start/complete the challenge. On the other hand, though, the scenario is a pretty solid example of PVE content and in that sense, also as a technicality, you are obtaining the appearance specifically through PVE (which is kind of unfair to say, as anything that's not 'you fight another player' is PVE and there's no other way they could go about it).

At the end of the day, anybody can do the scenario and unlock the weapon - the only real advantage PVE players have over PVP is that they're more likely to have better gear. There are a *lot* more players sitting with an overall 890-905 item level through PVE gear than there are through PVP, and that's because PVE gear is just flat-out more abundant (and, some would say, is easier to obtain with higher item levels). Aside from that, though, there is no inherent advantage given to PVE players over PVP. You can't even really argue a skill or content-familiarity advantage; while the average PVE-only player would probably do terrible and get destroyed if they stepped foot into a relatively high-level arena match, a PVPer stepping foot into the scenario (which is our PVE equiv of a higher-level arena game) isn't going to have trouble adapting; reacting to things going on around you and adapting your strategy is something they do all day long and I highly doubt it's going to take long for them to master the oh-so-difficult PVE mechanics presented to them there.

Anyways, I'm rambling - there's been a debate regarding PVP content requirements for PVE rewards for a long time, but you can't really call this an exclusively PVE reward. There is no PVE requirement needed to obtain it and it is a reward for the spec as a whole. You could argue that PVPers already have "their" artifact appearance as one is a reward from Honor Prestige levels... but then you could also argue that PVEers have "their" artifact appearance through literally every other available option. I think one variant of the hidden artifact being available to PVPers is fair, it just sucks that it's such a cool color.

Let's look at it from their perspective; you see and fall in love with the "Flame Glaive" appearance, but there isn't the RBG-related variant for it. You have no desire to do PVE content and honestly don't really have the time for it; you don't raid because the limited time you're able to spend on WoW is used for arenas and RBGs and such. You already have to complete a challenge scenario that is pretty much the DEFINITION of "PVE" just to get the default appearance, but can now never unlock another color for it by playing the game the way you want to play it. Think about how the other appearances look (in terms of methods of obtainment) to a PVPer; having to kill EVERY SINGLE dungeon boss? Having to kill the end-boss of the next raid tier on something higher than LFR or Normal? These are things that they dislike doing JUST as much as you dislike participating in group PVP, except that EVERY SINGLE option requires it.

PVP isn't the "side quest" of WoW anymore. WoW isn't as much a "PVE game that also has PVP on the side" like it was years ago. Playing solely for PVP is something many players do at this point and is a normal, accepted avenue of gameplay. They have their own talent trees and now they literally have their own entirely unique stat sheets for PVP-specific balancing. It's an integral part of the game at this point and it's pretty reasonable to let them have *one* color for the appearance that they can obtain by playing the game the way they want to play it.

But, there was a much better way Blizzard could have gone about this.
The problem with Blizzard is that they make the same mistake time and time again; putting up this invisible barrier between PVE and PVP with things like this, elements of the game (aesthetic or not) that say "this is for you if you PVP, this is for you if you don't". It isolates people from portions of content and basically says "if you happen to want something the other guys get, you've got to do something you don't enjoy doing" -- which, in a game, is the worst thing a player could ever hear; they're playing to have FUN! They want to do the things that THEY want to do.

All they had to do was give appearances dual-requirements, or at least give it to SOME of them. Why couldn't they simply have an appearance that said:

Purple Flame Glaive Variant
"Defeat every Legion dungeon boss *or* complete 10 rated battlegrounds while wearing this artifact appearance."

DONE. Problem solved. Give the purple variant another requirement instead of the RBG one. EVERYBODY is happy, and you can add PVP requirements to EVEN MORE colors to allow PVPers to obtain them without feeling like they're forced to do something they dislike (and also without PVEers complaining about having to PVP).

There are simple solutions to so many "problems" (I quote the word because this specific example is more "poor design habits") like this and it's always been totally confusing to me why Blizzard doesn't ever think of or implement them. I wish I had some sort of presidential emergency red phone that connected directly to the dev team, so I could pass tidbits of wisdom to them and prevent avoidable oversights like this.

[Snegovik]

Heroic KJ kill > 10 rbg wins, the latter you can just spam and EVENTUALLY you will win (which is damn easy at low cr, you can even win 8v10 pretty easy at low cr, where ppl run yollo without any exp/skill)

However, killing H KJ for a pvper, who does not have a PvE guild would be much harder than spamming 10 yolo RBG wins.

So my advise, suck it up and spam ur ques, its easy. Go Meme build and ull do just fine

[Resentless]

10 rbg wins are easier than a heroic raidboss kill? Come on, with 7.3 KJ heroic will be faceroll, but finding groups for the rbg wins can be hard if you play a crap spec for it. Moreover most rbg groups want achievements like 2k rating or something. It's utterly fail from Blizzard that you have to do rated pvp for a pve based skin.

How is it a pve based skin? Cause it's one pve mob? They can be CCD like in PvP, have DRs on cc like in PvP, have a PvP template (my nemesis only lasts 15 seconds)... That is pretty clearly not entirely a 'pve based' challenge. It's about mastering your class. And to truly master your class and unlock all skins you must be good at all things in wow. Pve and PvP both.

Also no, most groups actually just want the daily win or have low cr, unless they are pushing for rating none want 2k achieve. Unlike trying to do HC anything atm, 'MUST HAVE CURVE MULTIKILL 920 ILVL OR NO INV'. You can get into a 2k group with like 1800 and a good attitude/traits/ILVL and have the 1800 achieve to show. I can't show them im 9/10 NH hc, there's no achieve for that.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not really that it's a PVE challenge, it was always billed as 'mastery of your spec' so it makes sense to have multiple play types showcased. Mastery of your spec in solo play for the model itself, followed by mastery of your spec in dungeons, raids and PVP. Granted some bars were set much lower than others, but that's seems to have been what they're going for.

This all the way

- - - Updated - - -

It seems interesting that they did this after the TREMENDOUS debate about "PVP for PVE content" with prior legendaries, ie the ring or the cloak (I can't remember which; maybe both?), and I'm pretty sure I recall them saying they wouldn't do it again.

Now, to be fair, this is a hidden appearance for the entire spec and it technically isn't PVE-exclusive. It has no PVE requirements in terms of raids or anything else and anybody can start/complete the challenge. On the other hand, though, the scenario is a pretty solid example of PVE content and in that sense, also as a technicality, you are obtaining the appearance specifically through PVE (which is kind of unfair to say, as anything that's not 'you fight another player' is PVE and there's no other way they could go about it).

At the end of the day, anybody can do the scenario and unlock the weapon - the only real advantage PVE players have over PVP is that they're more likely to have better gear. There are a *lot* more players sitting with an overall 890-905 item level through PVE gear than there are through PVP, and that's because PVE gear is just flat-out more abundant (and, some would say, is easier to obtain with higher item levels). Aside from that, though, there is no inherent advantage given to PVE players over PVP. You can't even really argue a skill or content-familiarity advantage; while the average PVE-only player would probably do terrible and get destroyed if they stepped foot into a relatively high-level arena match, a PVPer stepping foot into the scenario (which is our PVE equiv of a higher-level arena game) isn't going to have trouble adapting; reacting to things going on around you and adapting your strategy is something they do all day long and I highly doubt it's going to take long for them to master the oh-so-difficult PVE mechanics presented to them there.

Anyways, I'm rambling - there's been a debate regarding PVP content requirements for PVE rewards for a long time, but you can't really call this an exclusively PVE reward. There is no PVE requirement needed to obtain it and it is a reward for the spec as a whole. You could argue that PVPers already have "their" artifact appearance as one is a reward from Honor Prestige levels... but then you could also argue that PVEers have "their" artifact appearance through literally every other available option. I think one variant of the hidden artifact being available to PVPers is fair, it just sucks that it's such a cool color.

Let's look at it from their perspective; you see and fall in love with the "Flame Glaive" appearance, but there isn't the RBG-related variant for it. You have no desire to do PVE content and honestly don't really have the time for it; you don't raid because the limited time you're able to spend on WoW is used for arenas and RBGs and such. You already have to complete a challenge scenario that is pretty much the DEFINITION of "PVE" just to get the default appearance, but can now never unlock another color for it by playing the game the way you want to play it. Think about how the other appearances look (in terms of methods of obtainment) to a PVPer; having to kill EVERY SINGLE dungeon boss? Having to kill the end-boss of the next raid tier on something higher than LFR or Normal? These are things that they dislike doing JUST as much as you dislike participating in group PVP, except that EVERY SINGLE option requires it.

PVP isn't the "side quest" of WoW anymore. WoW isn't as much a "PVE game that also has PVP on the side" like it was years ago. Playing solely for PVP is something many players do at this point and is a normal, accepted avenue of gameplay. They have their own talent trees and now they literally have their own entirely unique stat sheets for PVP-specific balancing. It's an integral part of the game at this point and it's pretty reasonable to let them have *one* color for the appearance that they can obtain by playing the game the way they want to play it.

But, there was a much better way Blizzard could have gone about this.
The problem with Blizzard is that they make the same mistake time and time again; putting up this invisible barrier between PVE and PVP with things like this, elements of the game (aesthetic or not) that say "this is for you if you PVP, this is for you if you don't". It isolates people from portions of content and basically says "if you happen to want something the other guys get, you've got to do something you don't enjoy doing" -- which, in a game, is the worst thing a player could ever hear; they're playing to have FUN! They want to do the things that THEY want to do.

All they had to do was give appearances dual-requirements, or at least give it to SOME of them. Why couldn't they simply have an appearance that said:

Purple Flame Glaive Variant
"Defeat every Legion dungeon boss *or* complete 10 rated battlegrounds while wearing this artifact appearance."

DONE. Problem solved. Give the purple variant another requirement instead of the RBG one. EVERYBODY is happy, and you can add PVP requirements to EVEN MORE colors to allow PVPers to obtain them without feeling like they're forced to do something they dislike (and also without PVEers complaining about having to PVP).

There are simple solutions to so many "problems" (I quote the word because this specific example is more "poor design habits") like this and it's always been totally confusing to me why Blizzard doesn't ever think of or implement them. I wish I had some sort of presidential emergency red phone that connected directly to the dev team, so I could pass tidbits of wisdom to them and prevent avoidable oversights like this.

Oh and this. This is even better as it as a solution to the 'problem' while also showing you the other side. Thank you intelligent and objective based demon hunters.