Return of the Lich King expansion leaked on reddit?

[Deleted]

I know, I remember reading that. I took it as sometime eventually The Naga/Azshara would be coming but based on the evidence we have. Warlords had no note of it, same with Mist. Legion has ramped up the Naga involvement since well forever(Maybe Cata).

No, Warlords and Mists had no hint ingame, I mentioned in the post that the reason I believed Azshara would be coming after those expansions was because of the Dark Below trademark and the fake Eye of Azshara trademark. So every expansion there was something that made a lot of players go "Azshara is gonna be next". How much credibility that had doesn't really matter. We all know that in all of these cases, Azshara didn't make it. But a lot of people believed that every expansion after Wrath was gonna be Azshara, and they at least always had some reason to believe it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

No, Warlords and Mists had no hint ingame, I mentioned in the post that the reason I believed Azshara would be coming after those expansions was because of the Dark Below trademark and the fake Eye of Azshara trademark. So every expansion there was something that made a lot of players go "Azshara is gonna be next". How much credibility that had doesn't really matter. We all know that in all of these cases, Azshara didn't make it. But a lot of people believed that every expansion after Wrath was gonna be Azshara, and they at least always had some reason to believe it.

I don't think trademarks are really part of an expansion.

[Deleted]

Serious now, anyone that plays Legion and care a bit about the lore knows that the Void is coming next xpac. Blizzard isn't even being subtle about it.

"Everybody knows that the Legion is coming next after MoP. Blizzard isn't even subtle about it."

I love how different people in this thread have different ideas for what is coming next but all are sure that they are right and that it's obvious.

"It has to be Argus, why else are we going to Argus in 7.3?"
"It has to be Voidlords, see what Star Augur is saying."
"It has to be Old Gods, see what Il'gynoth says about Odyn."
"It has to be Azshara, she said her Wrath is coming."

Hell, some people even believe it has to be South Seas, because Gallywix got a new model, even though he's not involved in anything.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think trademarks are really part of an expansion.

No, really are they not? Wow, you've just blown my mind and shit.

And? What is your point?

People believed with every new expansion coming that it would be Azshara, and they always had some reason to believe it. It doesn't matter whether it was a hint in the game, in a book, a real or a fake trademark.

Is this so hard to understand for you?

[Rhaide]

No, I base my personal attack on a) the fact that you made a personal attack at me first and b) that I know what the Lich King's creator intended because I can read his words and understand their meaning.

I commented on your ability to understand an accepted and legitimate part of the lore. You are disagreeing with fact, and you are wrong in doing so. You flung personal insults based on your dislike of my point.

The validity of our points are not in parallel. You're too invested in your desire for things to work the way you want. Sorry, but you don't get to 'disagree with the DM' so to speak.

[Hammerfest]

I commented on your ability to understand an accepted and legitimate part of the lore.

The sheer snideness of your comment...

I don't think you have a firm understanding of how official books work.

...was sufficient enough for me to regard it as an attack that warranted a counter attack. I do know how official books work, I just don't care how they work in this case. As far as I'm concerned, Metzen's take stands regardless of what the current creative regime at Blizzard wants us to think.

[Shakou]

I can't believe people are still talking about this, this isn't even a good hoax it's an absolutely horrible idea.

[Ehrenpanzer]

" Old zones completely changed"

Nope. As much as I would like this, they learned from cataclysm this isn't worth the time investment and people would be upset about losing the old version. This single line item makes this "FAKE NEWS"

You believed that crap THAT long? I called bullshit at "reddit post"

[Makorus]

"Blizzard is currently planning to announce this at a roleplaying convention in Germany later this month."

l o l

[TheRealDavidTwo]

What, are you guys even trying yet? This is totally fake. But honestly a good read.

"Grizzly Hills - Wofl Cult joins the Scourge, led by Arugal."

THIS HAS ALREADY HAPPENED ARRRRRRGHHHHHHHH

[GreenJesus]

You believed that crap THAT long? I called bullshit at "reddit post"

No. I just skimmed it and saw that.

[Cathbadh]

To be followed by Deathwing Strikes back and then The Pandaren Menace

[Deleted]

yeah, i started with Mandate of Heaven, but my favorite was clearly MM VII - For Blood and Honor, it was such a Quality product, with Promotion Sub classes, like a druid could turn into either an arch druid or warlock, providing good and evil contrast choices in which spec you want to specialize from a base class. And Nighon "tauren" were either all overlords(warriors) or warlocks at least in homm3.

So still waiting for tauren locks here either as lore villain or playable character, lore villain would be enough for me. We got this kinda with the blood totem clan in Legion, though. But they seem to be a side thing. No biggie here.

Yeah in my list, favourites are 6-7-8, 9 was a dissapointment, but the two years ago released X, was quite good, i enjoyed it a lot.

[Deleted]

Arthas ain't coming back, and he definitely wouldn't be coming back as a bad guy.

Why would he come back as a good guy?

[Destinas]

They've also been building up Xavius, Gul'dan and Kil'jaeden for years and look where they ended up. Xavius and Gul'dan were tier one, Kil'jaeden is gonna be tier two. I mean I guess you still gotta have cool bosses for tier one and tier two. But what could they possibly bring in tier three, that would top that, other than Sargeras himself. Hell, even the Avatar of Sargeras is in tier two.

I beg to differ for two out of three.

Xavius was presumed dead for years, between the War of the Ancients trilogy to Stormrage - and then he was stated fully 100% dead again. He was only majorly referenced in books, and never appeared in any game before Legion. Even in World of Warcraft, there are only a couple references to him during the WotA, mostly in Cataclysm. He was never built up to be a major bad guy, and never built up to appear in WoW at all. It was a major surprise (met with confusion for many lore buffs) that he was going to be in Legion at all. Remember, that was only fueled by the fact that he's still technically a demon that can resurrect, which was a newer development from WoD with Archimonde's return. So, no he wasn't built up to be anything, ever, and he's a fitting first tier boss to randomly bring back in order to kill again.

Gul'dan was built up over one expansion, and set up to be a major bad guy right away in Legion. We fought him at the time we expected. It matches how Garrosh was set up from Cataclysm, through Pandaria, and he was killed during leveling in WoD. Likewise, we see Gul'dan from the very first moment we go into alternate Draenor, and he's set up as a background bad guy periodically until Hellfire, where he escapes. We see a lot of his influence through leveling and reputation in Legion (as well as the audio books), then he's killed at the perfect moment in Nighthold. It's not like it's our Gul'dan, and it's not like he's been set up for multiple expansions.

Azshara and N'Zoth, however, have been set up for a long time. She was referenced many times in multiple books and she's appeared personally at least 3 times in WoW. The Naga have been a major force since Warcraft 3, and we've seen their influence off and on in almost every expansion. N'Zoth has been a driving force since Cataclysm, who has melded perfectly into lore with Deathwing and Azshara that was already established. While we haven't had as many references to him as Azshara has had, he's still a pretty important lore character, and the last of the Old Gods on Azeroth. He's a much more important character than Xavius and Gul'dan, - he's Xavius, Azshara, and Deathwing's boss, and Gul'dan as well was just a pawn to the Legion. Azshara, while being another servant to N'Zoth, is also stated/shown in multiple sources to be perhaps the most powerful mage on Azeroth - even more powerful than Xavius when they were both mortal.

Isn't that exactly what people said about Legion? That it was a fanservice expansion? It had everything people wanted, class quests, artifact weapons like the Ashbringer and Doomhammer, Illidan returns, Demon Hunter hero class, Emerald Nightmare, etc.

The difference is, the Emerald Nightmare and Burning Legion were held together by Xavius, who was a product of both forces. The Naga/Old Gods, Scourge, and Ogres have very little connecting them at all. It's completely random to have Northrend be the focus, but then take players right next to the Maelstrom so we can go fight the Naga in Nazjatar for no apparent reason. Even in Cataclysm there were connections between every new zone because of the Old Gods - and people still didn't like that, because they felt there was no connection. People also disliked having the Nightmare linked in with demonic things, because they felt it could have been it's own tier/expansion.

[Deleted]

Azshara and N'Zoth, however, have been set up for a long time.

Well Azshara and N'zoth are both gonna be in this expansion if the leak is true. So I don't get your point. Are you arguing n favour of the leak?

The difference is, the Emerald Nightmare and Burning Legion were held together by Xavius, who was a product of both forces. The Naga/Old Gods, Scourge, and Ogres have very little connecting them at all.

Actually there have been strong hints in Wrath that Arthas was empowered by Yogg-Saron. Remember the faceless ones beneath Icecrown Citadel? Didn't Arthas kill a faceless one in WC3 TFT? Isn't Icecrown made out of Saronite, which is called the Black Blood of Yogg-Saron? There is also that quest in Icecrown with the miners that mine Saronite and go crazy. So there's always been some connection between Arthas and the Old Gods. The theory being that the God of Death, Yogg-Saron, empowered the Lich King with necromantic powers.

Wasn't there even a scene in the Yogg fight, where it was suggested that Yogg was responsible for Arthas actions?

From WoWwiki

During the encounter with the Old God in the Ulduar raid, three visions are shown to players which represent key moments in the history of Azeroth; strongly implying Yogg-Saron can be directly linked to these events somehow. These visions include the creation of the Dragon Soul by Neltharion and the Dragon Aspects during the War of the Ancients (which resulted in the Sundering of the world), King Llane's assassination by Garona Halforcen (which caused the fall of Stormwind at the end of the First War), and a vision of the Lich King torturing Bolvar Fordragon (the man who would become the new Lich King after Arthas Menethil's death).

And the Naga have ties to the Old Gods. So if Arthas is working with the Old Gods, that throws the Scourge, the Old Gods and the Naga into one group. The leak said that the Twilight's Hammer are trying to resurrect Yogg-Saron. So maybe the Cult of the Damned is working together with the Twilight's Hammer? Would it be that far-fetched? These two groups are very similar.

[Mister Cheese]

Hoooly shit how is this thread still going. There's two things in the OP that debunk this immediately.

1. Artifacts and Class halls will not carry over. Blizzard has said this already. Multiple times. https://www.polygon.com/2016/8/15/12...next-expansion I know, polygon but it's better than no source and it has the interview with Kosak.

2. Blizzard will not invest time in revamping old zones. As there is no point. Nobody goes back to them, nobody levels through them as leveling is so fast now. They would rather people just use boosts. They regret doing this with Cataclysm because they spent too many resources making it so you can fly around in Azeroth, gave nearly every zone a new quest chain, and they had to cut so much content from the endgame because of this. A raid was cut. Dragon Soul was extremely lackluster. All that time could have been spent not revamping those zones, most people would rather spend their time on end-game.

Another point I'd like to make is that there's not gonna be another new class put into the game right after Demon Hunters. Seems pointless to just throw in another one. We already have death knights. Warlock players are already pissed that they lost some of their flavor to make demon hunters more unique. You want the same to happen to unholy Death Knights?

Also. Really? Arthas as a Villain again? Would Blizzard be so desperate as to re-use a previous expansion villain as the main bad buy?

[Krothar]

As much as I enjoyed Wrath, I don't want to play it beat for beat again. If this turns out to be true (Which I doubt) why would I want to fight Arthas again, other than nostalgia. Such a weak premise.

[Master Guns]

"Order halls carry over"
"New quest to get new skin"
LOL?

[Deleted]

1. Artifacts and Class halls will not carry over. Blizzard has said this already. Multiple times. https://www.polygon.com/2016/8/15/12...next-expansion I know, polygon but it's better than no source and it has the interview with Kosak.

Dave Kosak, a developer that worked on Lore for WoW and has been working on Hearthstone for months now, had an interview two weeks before the launch of Legion, in which he didn't even clearly state that Order Halls and Artifact weapons wouldn't carry over.

People are putting way too much importance on this.

This was prior to the launch of Legion. They can't even know how popular Class Halls and Artifact weapons are gonna be before the launch of Legion. If they turn out to be really popular, do you really think they would stick to something they said prior to launch?

He never even says that they won't carry over into the next expansion. And do you expect us to just abandon weapons like the Ashbringer and the Doomhammer? Or places like Acherus? What are Death Knights gonna do, they'll still have to go there.

[Venziir]

Ner'Zhul hasn't been a part of The Lich King since the Arthas book, which predates WotLK.

The "Arthas" book was released in 2009, Wotlk came out in 2008.