Is the Horde weaker than the Alliance?

[Frontenac]

I'm not saying the Alliance would go to extreme length to dismantle the Horde. If things were going badly for them, they would negociate too. Because it's the reasonable thing to do.

[Mehrunes]

Well you missed the point. Each race has its own culture. There's no need to absorb that. By breaking the unity, it simply means that getting rid of the necessities needed that held them as the horde. It's not really about forcing BE to abide by human custom or things like that. It's just getting rid of the incentives for them to from the horde again.

Cultural absorption does not necessitate removal of the entire culture of those absorbed. By removing just the parts you find undesirable, like Horde identity and the like in this case, you're already engaging in cultural absorption. Of the manner that's much more likely to succeed.

By treating them well enough that it withers away the incentive to rebel over time. Don't forget that that it's about the conditions the horde would be in too. If they are strong then they obviously will rebel under any condition but if they are too weak then combine that with the relatively normal life under the new system, the decision to rebel becomes much less of an option.

"in the period before their dislike of the Alliance evolves into the Utopia". You're once again ignoring the obvious consequences at the start of this process and focus on the later parts of it when things are getting worked out already.

The Ogre and the AA are obviously different and the degree of freedom would be different.

The memory of the internment camps is going to help for sure.

I'm not saying the Alliance would go to extreme length to dismantle the Horde. If things were going badly for them, they would negociate too. Because it's the reasonable thing to do.

The reasonable thing to do was what Varian did. Going all "Hmm, these people helped us out after all. I know, let's fuck them all to death even though Stormwind economy was already suffering before the war even began and we just had to rebuild our entire fleet and after we utterly lost on multiple fronts after we opened too many of them at the start of the war (and where restarting hostilities in the Underhold without Velen and Malfurion means our deaths and the collapse of Alliance leadership)" is the antithesis of reason.

[Frontenac]

Cultural absorption does not necessitate removal of the entire culture of those absorbed. By removing just the parts you find undesirable, like Horde identity and the like in this case, you're already engaging in cultural absorption. Of the manner that's much more likely to succeed.




"in the period before their dislike of the Alliance evolves into the Utopia". You're once again ignoring the obvious consequences at the start of this process and focus on the later parts of it when things are getting worked out already.




The memory of the internment camps is going to help for sure.




The reasonable thing to do was what Varian did. Going all "Hmm, these people helped us out after all. I know, let's fuck them all to death even though Stormwind economy was already suffering before the war even began and we just had to rebuild our entire fleet and after we utterly lost on multiple fronts after we opened too many of them at the start of the war (and where restarting hostilities in the Underhold without Velen and Malfurion means our deaths and the collapse of Alliance leadership)" is the antithesis of reason.

As I said, I was not speaking about the aftermath of the siege of Orgrimmar. Yes, it was the sensible thing to do at the time.

[Wildmoon]

Cultural absorption does not necessitate removal of the entire culture of those absorbed. By removing just the parts you find undesirable, like Horde identity and the like in this case, you're already engaging in cultural absorption. Of the manner that's much more likely to succeed.

I don't really think you could combine all races of the horde and identify them with "the horde's culture". They are all different races with distinct cutlures. The BE does not operate by the horde culture and customs. They do by their own. Breaking the unity and identity of the horde just requires you to get rid of the incentive to for them to form an opposing organization.

"in the period before their dislike of the Alliance evolves into the Utopia". You're once again ignoring the obvious consequences at the start of this process and focus on the later parts of it when things are getting worked out already.

I am not ignoring. It's there in what I wrote. By treating them well included things like being tolerant of small uprising,giving them places in the discussion about resource distribution or things like that. It's all part of the process that's too hard to describe in detail without seeing the picture.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I don't really think you could combine all races of the horde and identify them with "the horde's culture". They are all different races with distinct cutlures. The BE does operate by the horde culture and customs. They do by their own. Breaking the unity and identity of the horde just requires you to get rid of the incentive to for them to form an opposing organization

Is still think this is flying above your head. You can't split things up successfully by being one of the reasons the factions formed.

I am not ignoring. It's there in what I wrote. By treating them well included things like being tolerant of small uprising,giving them places in the discussion about resource distribution or things like that. It's all part of the process that's too hard to describe in detail without seeing the picture.

Freedoms they than use to comepelty screw the alliance over the first chance they get. You can't make other nations friends by doing these actions, all you can do is make them hate you more. I think the only one that isn't seeing the bigger picture is you.

[Wildmoon]

Is still think this is flying above your head. You can't split things up successfully by being one of the reasons the factions formed.





Freedoms they than use to comepelty screw the alliance over the first chance they get. You can't make other nations friends by doing these actions, all you can do is make them hate you more. I think the only one that isn't seeing the bigger picture is you.

You are arguing from the perspective of the world governed exclusively by ideals, so anything that conflict the said ideals just go above your head. We will not go anywhere with this. I get it that you are fiercly loyal to the horde. You don't need to tell me anymore of it.

[Friendlyimmolation]

You are arguing from the perspective of the world governed exclusively by ideals, so anything that conflict the said ideals just go above your head. We will not go anywhere with this. I get it that you are fiercly loyal to the horde. You don't need to tell me anymore of it.

Or, perhaps its the fact that you aren't as good at coming up with political scenarios as you think you are. You don't need to be loyal to a faction to realize none of the things you described actually would work that way.

[shrunken]

13 pages of arguing over particularly poor fiction.

I see...

[Wildmoon]

Or, perhaps its the fact that you aren't as good at coming up with political scenarios as you think you are. You don't need to be loyal to a faction to realize none of the things you described actually would work that way.

Sure lol. :P

[Friendlyimmolation]

Sure lol. :P

filling in your argument like madlib with negotiate and benefits is not actually good reasoning.

[Unholyground]

The Horde were always seen as the underdogs but has the gap between the Horde and the Alliance grown so large that the Horde has little chance of winning an all out war?

Siege of Orgrimmar took a heavy toll on the Horde and especially the orcs, the former backbone of the Horde.
The Blood Elves' loyalties aren't what they used to be.
The trolls lost their only real leader.
The Forsaken, while a powerful faction, are doomed to stagnation and inevitable decay thanks to Genn.

Does the Horde have any hope should they become enemies with the Alliance once again?

Considering in an expansion or 2 the faction boundaries will likely be gone I doubt it will be an issue.

[Wildmoon]

filling in your argument like madlib with negotiate and benefits is not actually good reasoning.

Believe what you will. You are still thinking the whole thing is based on negotiation in essence. You simply don't understand.

[Aoyi]

As far as lore is concerned, yes. The Horde is much weaker than the Alliance after the events of Siege of Orgrimmar (arguably before that too). As far as game play is concerned, I don't know if that's reflected.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Believe what you will. You are still thinking the whole thing is based on negotiation in essence. You simply don't understand.

You're right I simply don't understand how you honestly think the scenario you came up with has any base to stand on. repeating gains and benefits means shit to a people that hate you and the more freedom you give them the more opportunity they have to ruin you. They wont fall in line like a pet.

[Tripzzz]

Nothing the horde has even comes close to a fully functional Exodar. It transcends dimensions and warps time. The Alliance could sneak up on any horde city in an instant with an entire city full of troops and supplies and escape just as​ quickly. I doubt it will be used that way but the possiblity is there.

[Combatbutler]

Nothing the horde has even comes close to a fully functional Exodar. It transcends dimensions and warps time. The Alliance could sneak up on any horde city in an instant with an entire city full of troops and supplies and escape just as​ quickly. I doubt it will be used that way but the possiblity is there.

Not anymore really, it is naaru tech and only Naaru can properly operate it, without a Naaru pilot it is severely limited, sometimes to the point of being nonfunctional, as history has shown, otherwise the Draenei wouldn't have remained on Draenor.

Not to mention even these fortresses can be hijacked if you know how, which is why the exodar crashed on Azeroth to begin with.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Nothing the horde has even comes close to a fully functional Exodar. It transcends dimensions and warps time. The Alliance could sneak up on any horde city in an instant with an entire city full of troops and supplies and escape just as​ quickly. I doubt it will be used that way but the possiblity is there.

Exodar's driver is dead though.

[Tripzzz]

Not anymore really, it is naaru tech and only Naaru can properly operate it, without a Naaru pilot it is severely limited, sometimes to the point of being nonfunctional, as history has shown, otherwise the Draenei wouldn't have remained on Draenor.

Not to mention even these fortresses can be hijacked if you know how, which is why the exodar crashed on Azeroth to begin with.

It's not like all the Naaru have been wiped out. Velen has many Naaru friends I'm sure.

[Friendlyimmolation]

It's not like all the Naaru have been wiped out. Velen has many Naaru friends I'm sure.

The Naruu, let alone Velen wouldn't accept that use of the exodar though, even if it did work the way its being assumed it does.

[Tripzzz]

Exodar's driver is dead though.

They can get another driver.Or else how does Velen expect the Draenei to go home?