Reports: Sealed Indictment Issued on Donald Trump

[rosebull]

When they write the book on all this and it gets optioned as a movie (assuming modern western civilization survives) I wonder how trump supporters will be portrayed. How will these people be held accountable? The republicans have basically turned a blind eye to this and with few exceptions the conservative media has been behind trump 100%. The actual people who support trump as well really ought to know better. If this is all forgotten and these people kinda slink into the shadows wont this just happen again? You remember inglorious bastards where they carve swastikas into nazis forheads so they simple cant go home and be regular Germans again? I'm not suggesting violence by any means but the idea that the people who have vociferously supported trump at the most partisan of levels can simple say hey that wasnt me is kinda scary.

Honestly the fact you and 90% of left wingers that truly think the things you do about trump supporters say way more about you than them. You're painting half of america with a very big labeled brush, and you're in for a very big reality check when you realize the "trump supporters" aren't some sort of neo nazi women hating racists that your media consistently makes you believe.

[Bullettime]

Honestly the fact you and 90% of left wingers that truly think the things you do about trump supporters say way more about you than them. You're painting half of america with a very big labeled brush, and you're in for a very big reality check when you realize the "trump supporters" aren't some sort of neo nazi women hating racists that your media consistently makes you believe.

They aren't. Trump just has the unanimous support of that base. It also doesn't mean Trump didn't have a platform that ran heavily on xenophobia and a return to 1950s white America, even if not realistic. People don't have to be racist to support Trump, but it doesn't mean they're not complicit in electing someone pushing that sort of ideology.

Trump told people they were victims and promised working class whites of all income brackets a magic pill that would return them "their" country when everything was grand, they had all the jobs, etc and people bought it up.

[Pratt]

The stuff I've read this morning is so crazy some of it has to be true... right?

[Sormine]

Honestly the fact you and 90% of left wingers that truly think the things you do about trump supporters say way more about you than them. You're painting half of america with a very big labeled brush, and you're in for a very big reality check when you realize the "trump supporters" aren't some sort of neo nazi women hating racists that your media consistently makes you believe.

You understand how ironic you're being when you label a large majority of "left wingers" this way, right?

[Bullettime]

The stuff I've read this morning is so crazy some of it has to be true... right?

Mensch is eccentric but the claim is being backed up Schindler and Taylor who all have different sources apparently corroborating the same stuff. The trio has also been accurate, for the most part, through the past few months of shit storms. This is just definitely a case of something that won't be reported on by large outlets, even if true, until it's been triple or even quadruple checked for accuracy. This is the mother of all claims and anyone who reports it and proven wrong will have their credibility decimated.

It's worth discussing over the possibility and their track records all being true more often than wrong. But it shouldn't be taken as the gospel yet. I imagine we'll see a report on it by The Guardian before American outlets pick it up.

[Glorious Leader]

Honestly the fact you and 90% of left wingers that truly think the things you do about trump supporters say way more about you than them. You're painting half of america with a very big labeled brush, and you're in for a very big reality check when you realize the "trump supporters" aren't some sort of neo nazi women hating racists that your media consistently makes you believe.

I never said half of them were neo nazi woman hating racists or that the media consistently try to make us believe that. To be frank on some levels I don't really care why they support trump. Yea I'm sure some of them are racists and bigots and I'm sure some just genuienly didnt like hillary because shes an elite and i'm sure some of them thought trump would make their lives a whole lot better. Okay that's fine. None of them are valid enough to continue supporting this president and this administration.

[ovm33]

I'm starting to think this whole "Russian" thing is the left's version of the Birther crap.

[Bullettime]

I'm starting to think this whole "Russian" thing is the left's version of the Birther crap.

If it were, there wouldn't be two grand juries handing out indictments like Halloween candy in the last week.

That doesn't prove guilt but it does prove there's enough evidence for the courts to issue them for investigation. One of them is also a RICO case which is hard to authorize.

edit: Oh, and the grand juries that did the approval were from SDNY and EDVA which are the two most feared and no nonsense courts in the country.

[alexw]

I'm starting to think this whole "Russian" thing is the left's version of the Birther crap.

Yeah because the FBI/CIA were investigating if Obama was really a Kenyan Muslim weren't they?

[rosebull]

They aren't. Trump just has the unanimous support of that base. It also doesn't mean Trump didn't have a platform that ran heavily on xenophobia and a return to 1950s white America, even if not realistic. People don't have to be racist to support Trump, but it doesn't mean they're not complicit in electing someone pushing that sort of ideology.

Trump told people they were victims and promised working class whites of all income brackets a magic pill that would return them "their" country when everything was grand, they had all the jobs, etc and people bought it up.

People didn't "buy it up" people are actually effected by these things, that's what people on the west and east coast don't seem to understand so they resort to "explanations" on why people voted the way they did. And get out of here with that "1950s" american left wing propaganda you clearly ate up. You literally reiterate my point without even know it, you're *still* using brushes to paint people the way your media tells you to.

[Glorious Leader]

I'm starting to think this whole "Russian" thing is the left's version of the Birther crap.

One is a talking point created largely by right wing media to gin up the base

The other is a massive investigation involving grand jurys and corruption at the highest office on the land.

[Thepersona]

I'm starting to think this whole "Russian" thing is the left's version of the Birther crap.

The racist conspiracy thing, started mainly by your current president, compared to many recursals, and an ongoing investigation?
cut it off

[Glorious Leader]

People didn't "buy it up" people are actually effected by these things, that's what people on the west and east coast don't get. And get out of here with that "1950s" american left wing propaganda you clearly ate up. You literally reiterate my point without even know it, you're *still* using brushes to paint people the way your media tells you to.

Yea no they bought it alright and nothings being done about it. Trump FILLED the swamp with goldman sacs. Look I don't give a shit why you morons voted for trump I really don't. Your judgement in still continuing to support him is what's in question and why we can't simple let it be forgotten.

[Underverse]

I'd prefer to wait at least until midterms. People have short memories.

[Bullettime]

People didn't "buy it up" people are actually effected by these things, that's what people on the west and east coast don't get. And get out of here with that "1950s" american left wing propaganda you clearly ate up. You literally reiterate my point without even know it, you're *still* using brushes to paint people the way your media tells you to.

Except that was the basis of his entire campaign. He didn't discuss policy to win people over on that. He promised unrealistic magic pills to return the world to 1950s white America and people jumped on board, even if they didn't do it for outright racist reasons. His platform was massively appealing to working class whites and trying to make them feel like they were the victims of globalization and immigration.

I live in fucking Virginia, a hugely close swing state, as a 26 (then 25) year old white male registered as a Republican. I was on the receiving end of the massive propaganda campaign to see the shit they were promising first hand and it was pretty disgusting the things sent to my email, my home mailbox, sent to me by social media targeting, groups and community invites, etc.

I'm literally the voter demographic they were trying to court and in a swing state that was decided on the razor's edge. I'd argue I saw more of the campaign's efforts than many others who post here.

[Thepersona]

People didn't "buy it up" people are actually effected by these things, that's what people on the west and east coast don't seem to understand so they resort to "explanations" on why people voted the way they did. And get out of here with that "1950s" american left wing propaganda you clearly ate up. You literally reiterate my point without even know it, you're *still* using brushes to paint people the way your media tells you to.

no, they arent.
i mean, they're affected in the way that many minorities are getting the same rights (and that also goes to working right) as them. Since that happened, they're losing ground, and want that lost "territory" back (alas, the 1950s mentality). That's not going to happen, and voting for the donald would only increase their suffering, but now its well deserved, for their stupidity

[ovm33]

Five quotes in under five minutes. Think I struck a nerve. You guys are just as pathetic as the birthers with just as much proof.

[Bullettime]

Five quotes in under five minutes. Think I struck a nerve. You guys are just as pathetic as the birthers with just as much proof.

Because there's a huge difference between baseless accusations and multiple grand juries convening and determining based on testimony from the FBI's director and investigations done by the FBI and SDNY's office that indictments would be issued.

It's not plucking a nerve. It's correcting a false comparison.

[alexw]

Five quotes in under five minutes. Think I struck a nerve. You guys are just as pathetic as the birthers with just as much proof.

Nah you just posted a load of easily refutable bullshit and everyone seeing how easy it was to refute decided to pile in.

FYI can you point me in the direction of the FBI inquiry into Obama's birth place? It exists, right? Since the two are the same?

[Malfecto]

The report was corrected. And yeah I found it strange but at the same time, this was like the mother of all claims. The lawyer getting ahead of the damage wouldn't be unwarranted here given the severity of it and given the potential backlash to her career if she's wrong.

Yea the correction confused me even more. I am assuming they meant that evidence collected under FISA warrant is being used by some Federal Court in presentation to a grand jury. Ok, I can... kind of get that except:

FISA evidence purview is on foreign powers. They can't issue a FISA warrant on a US citizen. Incidental data obtained on a US citizen is protected UNLESS they are also subject to investigation, which then requires a court order. EVEN before that, any evidence that would be used thusly REQUIRES notification kind of like this:

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...ification.html

It is all covered under 50 U.S. Code § 1806 - Use of information:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1806

So yea, her lawyer is right because

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1810

Its a serious matter. Serious enough that the law explicitly says what you can and cannot do along with the penalty.

So I'm confused. He can't be under FISA warrant originally. You can't bring one of these against a United States Citizen. If his communications were incidental to the FISA warrant, they are protected UNLESS he is in an commission of a crime (even then the code states immediate harm but hey). THEN if the evidence is used in ANY WAY, such as in a Grand Jury, there are notification requirements or the prosecutor is breaking the law.

What this Mensch person is saying makes no sense.