Question: is wow population really low?

[Kakera]

"Those of us who appreciate it," as in, your tightly-knit circlejerk vocal minority of players who believe their delusional, nostalgia-soaked bedsheets are more relevant to the game's design direction than the actual developers themselves? And I'm the one who should fuck off because I enjoy the current retail game? That's the line of reasoning you're going to approach this with?

Grow the fuck up, dude. Go jerk yourself off to the greatness of Legacy WoW on a private realm and quit whining about how the game's current demographic no longer includes you.

Agreed 100%. Ignore these morons. Being addicted to nostalgia could be considered a disease because at it's core it's the inability to appreciate change and move forward. Sometimes they even disregard advancements making such ridiculous statements such as "things were so much better in the old days!" It's quite comparable to how silly older people sound when talking about current generations. Just as baseless, just a little more autistic sounding.

[Deleted]

It's probably lowest ever, large portion of the initial audience don't have the time for the AP grind and such to remain competitive and know there are other better games to play unless you go for the challenging raids or rated PVP content. The game is too horrible right now, but it's not something I and most of my friends really enjoy playing. Part of the problems have arisen due to the lower population ofc, which in many cases has been the result of burnouts due to the AP grind.

Do I miss the older expansions? Yes, because I still found things that were engaging and interesting to me. There was some exclusively 10 man content in TBC, which I'd currently really like to have. Managing a 20+ man roster is a chore, but at the same time people who I enjoy playing with and are competent rarely enjoy Normal/HC flex content. It's a stepping stone to the "proper content".

Not everyone is completely locked into WoW with no other life out there, there's no need to change and adapt to the game. If it doesn't fulfill our requirements, we unsub. That's what people have done, but people still wish they could play the game like they used to, in similarly social environment with like minded people.

Most people I know that still play it, play it out of habbit, when I talk to them about it they don't have the same kind of joy in their voice when they talk about the game. It is all riddled with cancelled raids, stress trying to maintain mythic roster and get stuff done and still feeling the need to go out and grind the ap day in and day out. I gave Legion few chances, it wasn't for me and seeing the Broken Shore hub, gosh that's some of the most bland junk I've seen in awhile.

[Deleted]

Yet I get in the fucking queue every single evening T_T

On which realm? And if you think queues where you have to wait 10 seconds, it doesn't seem real because sometimes it happens even on really early mornings.

[Vorkreist]

Triggered fanboys are triggered. Still with their heads up the ass defending the direction that takes the game into deeper shit with each exp.

[Ishayu]

Agreed 100%. Ignore these morons. Being addicted to nostalgia could be considered a disease because at it's core it's the inability to appreciate change and move forward. Sometimes they even disregard advancements making such ridiculous statements such as "things were so much better in the old days!" It's quite comparable to how silly older people sound when talking about current generations. Just as baseless, just a little more autistic sounding.

It's hilarious how often nostalgia is confused with criticism of moving in the wrong direction.

I have absolutely no desire to play vanilla because I already did. But I do have a desire to play something as good as vanilla, and for many of the same reasons.

If you think that makes me nostalgic, then you don't know what nostalgia is.

[dictainabox]

ITT: anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot. On a subjective topic. Down the rabbit hole we go.

[Kyanion]

how about stop making it worse every damn expansion.. stop catering to casuals(by casuals i dont mean ppl who play less time, but players who just arent as good as some other players).. cause the thing is THIS GAME is actually 12 years old.. what type of audience are they trying to attract? everyone who wanted to try wow already tried it..

You DO realize that the casual player is the majority in this game and has been that way since Vanilla right? Hardly anyone raided/dungeoned in Vanilla compared to later expansions. It is one of the most misleading things pro-Vanilla spout in any thread that mentions the game as it was years ago.

[Swalload]

As I said, its the only data we have. think its best to promote Warcraft Realms as a DEFINITIVE source, since it might put pressure on Blizzard to actually release the numbers again. We should want those numbers. Blizzard needs to do better here. So please embrace Warcraft Realms until they get those numbers out. Thanks.

What are you gonna do with these numbers? Manipulate your own opinion of the game, suddenly decide you hate it if the numbers are low in your biased point of view or suddenly make you enjoy the game more if there's a lot of players?

Play if you enjoy the game, quit if you don't.

[Kyanion]

Yes, it's actally quite simple. It's simply because all it involves doing is removing systems. Remove enough systems, and the underlying mechanics that still exist from vanilla will rise back up again, and everything will be fine.

Oh shit you just saved the game! Quick get to Blizz HQ and get them to change the game!

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Also, stop saying that games and gamers have changed since then. It's simply ridiculous. Not only do we have a very recent example of a private server being off-the-rails succesful, but we have tons of rants from every major outlet out there about how much WoW has been ruined - from YouTubers to publications like IGN, GameSpot, etc. and these articles receive widespread support from the readers.

I find it utterly ridiculous that anyone can actually think that the social structure of humanity has changed so much in 10 years. Sorry mate, we're still the same if you just give us a way to express that.

Oh yes the random youtuber rant means oh so much. Man they sure had a lot of change happened when they spent 10 min shitting out a video and then moving on to the next thing to get clicks. I mean if the topic was so important you'd think they'd keep talking about it and not stop after a video or two, but guess what happened...

And sorry a free private server getting less than 1mil players on it means what exactly? That people like free WoW?

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Yes I did read what you said. And it's completely incorrect. You have no evidence whatsoever that people were doing the hardest content just because it was hard. When WoW came out, one of its defining qualities was the endless amounts of variety between locations and how everything you did would change every few levels (i.e. as you progressed) and this aspect of the game just kept going until you were all the way in the late end-game, by which point you had grown so attached to the world and the people within it, that you'd eagerly await the next piece of content, whether you were hardcore or not.

Some people didn't get to see everything, but there was still a good amount of things they hadn't done yet, because a lot of was still hard - and because the game world and exploration elements had been so compelling up until that point, it kept them going - especially with all the friends they'd made along the way.

Now, they aren't compelled in that way, and they probably made no friends along the way either.

Also, no, timegates didn't exist in vanilla besides the Ahn'Qiraj war effort. They were all skill-gates. (as in get to a certain level of gear and skill before you can proceed)

Again, MOST people in Vanilla did NOT hit end game. It wasn't "some" it was MOST. They did not raid. They did not do a majority of dungeons. Did you even play back in Vanilla or are your facts coming from PSers? Not everyone got magically attached to the game as you claim. They still had people quit playing in Vanilla, TBC and WotLK but they got replaced by new players. Remember over 100 million people have played this game over 12 years so there have been people leaving ALL THE TIME.

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It's simple, as long as blizzard does not directly report the amount of active accounts, always assume that it is decreasing, since if it was not, they'd rub that in their investor's faces firsthand.
So yes, current wow population is probably lowest ever.

Right because people totally didn't come back for Legion after WoD being such a poor expansion with a long dead period. So they gained subs in Legion and yet still didn't tell people what the subs are. They don't need to rub sub numbers in anyone's faces be it great news or bad news. All that matters is the money that comes in.

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Look at the numbers. The amount of people doing the hardest content has not changed really at all. If anything it's gone up if you look at it relatively.

You must not have gotten attuned to anything in vanilla or BC. Time gating has been around in various forms since inception.

Like I said it seems like Ishayu bases his Vanilla experience off of PS where more people raid and do dungeons than what really happened 12 years ago.

[ItachiZaku]

It's low, but I wouldn't say really low. I have no problems doing world bosses or world quests, LFR, random BGs, leveling queues are quick.

[Evilmoo]

Right because people totally didn't come back for Legion after WoD being such a poor expansion with a long dead period. So they gained subs in Legion and yet still didn't tell people what the subs are. They don't need to rub sub numbers in anyone's faces be it great news or bad news. All that matters is the money that comes in.

So you think there is no correlation between sub amount and "money that comes in"?
really?
really?

[Gimlix]

The number of current subscriptions gamewide has exactly zero to do with you as an individual player. Blizzard doesn't NEED to do anything except report the most relevant metrics to its shareholders. And using wrong data because it's all you have doesn't make your conclusions any more valid.

If there are 8 million people or 8000 people playing this game, it makes no difference to you as long as you're having fun. If you're not having fun, it doesn't matter if 8 billion people are playing.

That is so bullshit, Of course it matters. The more populated and active ur game is, how more activity you find in everything.
The lesser people, the less things to do.

Example = World PvP. The amount of people that decreased over the years is also a big decrease in WPvP activities happening.
When was last time people raided capital cities. like forever ago maybe once. When it used to be almost daily.

WoW is not in a good state when it comes to active players. This is just known by everyone.

[Raven]

Yes they are low for World of warcraft numbers, No they are not low vs other mmo´s numbers.

[Deathquoi]

That is so bullshit, Of course it matters. The more populated and active ur game is, how more activity you find in everything.
The lesser people, the less things to do.

Example = World PvP. The amount of people that decreased over the years is also a big decrease in WPvP activities happening.
When was last time people raided capital cities. like forever ago maybe once. When it used to be almost daily.

WoW is not in a good state when it comes to active players. This is just known by everyone.

No, it's not bullshit, you just can't fucking read. If you're having fun it doesn't matter. I never fucking said there was no correlation between population and enjoyment. What I said was that the number of OVERALL subscriptions means nothing to you. That is 100% true.

Also, you seem to think that the plural of anecdote is data.

[Craaazyyy]

You DO realize that the casual player is the majority in this game and has been that way since Vanilla right? Hardly anyone raided/dungeoned in Vanilla compared to later expansions. It is one of the most misleading things pro-Vanilla spout in any thread that mentions the game as it was years ago.

i dont think so bro..

again im not talking about casuals like they're someone who dont play alot, im more talking about gameplay wise, class design wise ppl would like if classes had more buttons, were more fun to play... the game had more customization like it used to.. also pvp used to be super popular, now its like the worst ever

[Akka]

Please stop using Warcraft Realms as a source. It requires an addon to collect data, and it only collects so much.

Please educate yourself about statistics.

Except Blizzard themselves have said that subs are cyclical and are hardly ever connected to a specific change.

Blizzard started saying that from WoD. Which is kinda humorous. It's trying to frame a recent issue as something that was supposedly "always there".

Data-points we have:

- Blizzard, in their 2017 yearly investor briefing announced that Legion is slightly ahead of WoD. Precisely, which time of WoD to they refer to? Are they refering to a fixed time after release? Is 8 months into Legion better than the 8 months into Warlords? We can just assume this is what they mean.

They wrote "Y/Y" in the report. It means from the previous year to the current one. So basically they compared the last year of WoD to the first year of Legion.

[Ishayu]

Oh shit you just saved the game! Quick get to Blizz HQ and get them to change the game!

Cute sarcasm. Obviously I'm not going to quit my job, leave my family, and go halfway across the world just to save World of Warcraft.

I do work in the games industry though, and I've got my hand on quite a few big franchises.

Oh yes the random youtuber rant means oh so much. Man they sure had a lot of change happened when they spent 10 min shitting out a video and then moving on to the next thing to get clicks. I mean if the topic was so important you'd think they'd keep talking about it and not stop after a video or two, but guess what happened...

And sorry a free private server getting less than 1mil players on it means what exactly? That people like free WoW?

This argument is so tired. If people wanted free WoW, do you think they'd try to emulate a version more like the current one or the old one? It's completely possible to emulate some of the latest content patches, but there is no market for that. One word: Trinity. Compatible with 7.2 already. I've said enough. No, I haven't tested it.

Live WoW is basically up by virtue of the fact that the social bonds forged in the early days of this game are hard to break - and even then, it's happening.

Again, MOST people in Vanilla did NOT hit end game. It wasn't "some" it was MOST. They did not raid. They did not do a majority of dungeons. Did you even play back in Vanilla or are your facts coming from PSers? Not everyone got magically attached to the game as you claim. They still had people quit playing in Vanilla, TBC and WotLK but they got replaced by new players. Remember over 100 million people have played this game over 12 years so there have been people leaving ALL THE TIME.

This is entirely true. Most people didn't hit the end-game, but most people weren't bored or running out of content.

What I'm saying is not that it didn't happen, what I'm saying is that it's a good thing.

Also, the sheer accessibility and instant fun of vanilla, tBC and WotLK was a significant factor in why the game was gaining players. Nowadays you get something that can only be described as "beyond hilariously shit". Basically you get one class, and if you find out you rolled the wrong one you're completely wrecked and have to either pay for a new boost or run through 100 levels of content that is made so utterly trivial that there is no point to it being there. It's not like in vanilla where the mobs actually posed a challenge and you had to navigate the world and understand the space. Now you just follow the arrow and 1-shot entire packs of mobs at once.

And of course you only figure that out if you somehow manage to get over the fact that the game throws 25+ abilities on your bars plus 10 passive effects within the span of 20 minutes. Game's got a ****ed up learning curve and difficulty curve, is what I'm saying.

Right because people totally didn't come back for Legion after WoD being such a poor expansion with a long dead period. So they gained subs in Legion and yet still didn't tell people what the subs are. They don't need to rub sub numbers in anyone's faces be it great news or bad news. All that matters is the money that comes in.

I don't know how many subs they got when Legion launched, but WoD got a ton. And then they all quit again, both times.

The game has become cyclical - that is the whole thing is frontloaded easy content followed by endless, boring repetition and grinding. Hence, everyone flocks to it for a few months, and then everybody leaves again. That's not healthy for the social fabric of an MMORPG.

And, as someone pointed out just above, it's a recent thing. This wasn't happening even as recently as MoP. It's entirely a WoD/Legion phenomenon.

Like I said it seems like Ishayu bases his Vanilla experience off of PS where more people raid and do dungeons than what really happened 12 years ago.

I did play vanilla. Also, saying that the number of people who are doing the hardest content has stayed the same is friggin' hilarious. It's not even remotely true. You tell me to go look at the numbers - how about you do it?

[Deadite]

You can say it has 100k players or 1,000,000,000,000 players and no one can prove you wrong since Blizz ain't talking.

[Kyanion]

I did play vanilla. Also, saying that the number of people who are doing the hardest content has stayed the same is friggin' hilarious. It's not even remotely true. You tell me to go look at the numbers - how about you do it?

That isn't what I was saying at all. What I am saying is that on a PS more people do dungeons and raiding than they did 12 years ago. I'm not saying the amount of people doing end game content has stayed the same for 12 years in retail. PS are not a true representation of how it was 12 years ago. As I've said times have changed and you can see how that is reflected in a PS as well.

[Ishayu]

That isn't what I was saying at all. What I am saying is that on a PS more people do dungeons and raiding than they did 12 years ago. I'm not saying the amount of people doing end game content has stayed the same for 12 years in retail. PS are not a true representation of how it was 12 years ago. As I've said times have changed and you can see how that is reflected in a PS as well.

Obviously a PS is tainted by a very large portion knowing everything about the game already. It's easier to find guides and play your class effectively because you don't have to figure it all out on your own.

Obviously a modern WoW with many of the same core gameplay elements but with different content and class design wouldn't suffer from that problem.