Chaos Blades changes

[xGLxAnubis]

Haste/Vers didn't become more valuable, mastery just became less valuable.

Crit is once again far and away the best secondary (Mastery has been close to crit), with all the other secondaries being effectively worthless in comparison.

[chematus]

CB worked like that since launch

I like these changes. No more double cheese on mastery, free BD with first blood...

At least it was scaling before...

[Occar]

CB worked like that since launch

I like these changes. No more double cheese on mastery, free BD with first blood...

plus ring to allow us to get CC and first blood.

[Fordprefect]

haste is far more important with these changes. it effects our BD cooldown, more auto attacks more DB procs causing more felblade procs, and it effects felblade cooldown, it effects throw glaive CD. with new ring we will have BD baseline and either bloodlet or chaos cleave as second talent in that row and haste will buff both (more CS with more haste as we will likely have infinite fury) it seems we will have a haste cap and then start to stack versa or mastery with crit after we get to that haste cap.

[Soulfròst]

haste is far more important with these changes. it effects our BD cooldown, more auto attacks more DB procs causing more felblade procs, and it effects felblade cooldown, it effects throw glaive CD. with new ring we will have BD baseline and either bloodlet or chaos cleave as second talent in that row and haste will buff both (more CS with more haste as we will likely have infinite fury) it seems we will have a haste cap and then start to stack versa or mastery with crit after we get to that haste cap.

This sounds the most accurate to me, at least from my first impression of the changes. I'm all for actually using haste now, instead of being pigeonholed into just crit and mastery. I think having more haste, given the changes, will spruce up the rotation a bit, given all it interacts with now.

[Deix-EU]

I actually had the intuition at VERY FIRST sigh of DH this class could and should be in favor of haste more. Everything converges to it.
Now my intuition is starting to come true.

[Krille]

haste is far more important with these changes. it effects our BD cooldown, more auto attacks more DB procs causing more felblade procs, and it effects felblade cooldown, it effects throw glaive CD. with new ring we will have BD baseline and either bloodlet or chaos cleave as second talent in that row and haste will buff both (more CS with more haste as we will likely have infinite fury) it seems we will have a haste cap and then start to stack versa or mastery with crit after we get to that haste cap.

No. Haste is still going to be shit (our worst stat actually). It barely affects your attack speed and it has minimal effect on BD/DS. Nobody knows for sure now but Vers and Mastery will both still be stronger than Haste. But this CB change is a buff to anyone that didnt have Dinner Bell or over 45% mastery.

The increased duration on CB is equivalent to having 45% mastery passive right now and the 6 extra seconds of 150% more dmg on AA's is a buff to most people.

- - - Updated - - -

I actually had the intuition at VERY FIRST sigh of DH this class could and should be in favor of haste more. Everything converges to it.
Now my intuition is starting to come true.

No it's not.

- - - Updated - - -

So are we considering this a nerf or what? Only a nerf with current stat weights?

It's a buff to anyone not running Dinner Bell.

[Zasriel]

The CoS/Arc set I assume is worthless with these changes, now?

[BrioWoW]

Yeah, assuming you have higher ilvl piece to replace.

[Krille]

The CoS/Arc I assume is worthless with these changes, now?

Nobody actually know atm. From people stating haste is going to be best to me saying it's not. It's all based on feelcrafting. There's no "real" theorycrafting being done by the usual guys since it's bound to be more changes and it's worthless doing these things right now as it might all be rubbish closer to patch release.

[Deleted]

The CoS/Arc I assume is worthless with these changes, now?

Why should it be worthless?
A mastery proc during CB was nice if it happened, but that wasn't the only reason for using Jacins set. And for procs outside of CB nothing has changed. A 3000 mastery proc with ~25% uptime is still good and both pieces have nice stats with high crit rating.

[Enentari]

It's a buff to anyone not running Dinner Bell.

Nobody will run DB in 7.2.5, it's random now. So it's basically a buff for all (unless pple with 45+ mastery^^).

[Hctaz]

Yep. Really not excited about these changes.

This is the demonhunter expansion and we're just a lukewarm melee with flashy moves and a one button rotation while maintaining pretty crappy generation.

Even if our fury generation was decent we would still be just tapping out our one or two button rotation that is completely crap for pay off outside of meta and the demonlogy build which I am actually enjoying if it weren't for how terrible it is at anything less than 5 mob pulls.

This is the warlock/warrior expansion if anything.

Just because your class came out in this expansion doesn't mean it has to be overpowered. That's really silly logic.

[Krille]

Nobody will run DB in 7.2.5, it's random now. So it's basically a buff for all (unless pple with 45+ mastery^^).

Yea but there are people playing with DB now. So if you're simming at like 1 mil dps atm you'll lose quite alot of dps with these changes. But for people like me that never surrendered to the cheese (pun intended), it's going to be a flat out buff.

[Sylvaeres]

Yep. Really not excited about these changes.

This is the demonhunter expansion and we're just a lukewarm melee with flashy moves and a one button rotation while maintaining pretty crappy generation.

Even if our fury generation was decent we would still be just tapping out our one or two button rotation that is completely crap for pay off outside of meta and the demonlogy build which I am actually enjoying if it weren't for how terrible it is at anything less than 5 mob pulls.

This is the warlock/warrior expansion if anything.

Lmao you are beyond delusional. The stupidity that just came from your post is beyond astonishing

[Shamed]

No. Haste is still going to be shit (our worst stat actually). It barely affects your attack speed and it has minimal effect on BD/DS. Nobody knows for sure now but Vers and Mastery will both still be stronger than Haste. But this CB change is a buff to anyone that didnt have Dinner Bell or over 45% mastery.

The increased duration on CB is equivalent to having 45% mastery passive right now and the 6 extra seconds of 150% more dmg on AA's is a buff to most people.

What are you basing this on? Do you have a source? Currently on my 913 Demon Hunters stat values are weighing Crit, Haste and Mastery above agility when my base stats are 40% crit, 13% haste and 33% mastery. Crit is a fair bit ahead of everything else due to the 41st and 2nd traits, but then haste and mastery are equal. This CB change literally takes away all the point of mastery stacking, it goes from an amazing stat to a just ok stat. Vers is also, just an ok stat. That leaves us with crit and haste. With the new ToS 2 set and BD buffs, every little bit of haste is going to count, no matter how little the cd reduction is. The lower the cd on BD the faster you generate fury, therefore the quantity of chaos strikes you get out is going to be far greater than the quality you get from mastery. Not to mention 100% DB chance I still haven't added in yet. Mastery does not effect the damage of DB, nor BD, the two things they seem to be pushing in ToS with this ptr nerfs, so I struggle to see your point in calling haste a bad stat? Blizzard is obviously trying to push crit haste, not crit mastery with these changes.

In conclusion, do I think Haste will be better than crit? Probably not; will it be better than versatility and mastery? Most definitely. Going over logs, on average, you get 10 hits on chaos blades outside of lust, and meta. With meta you get 12-14. With Lust and meta you get 14-16. Now if you have say 20%~ haste that's an extra 2 autos in that window, plus the 6 seconds they've added on which is even more autos. So the haste increase on autos is better than what you think. Because you are then also generating fury on every one of those autos. Plus a Meta/Lust opener with DB and extra haste, the fury generation is going to be nuts. This is all assuming crit is still higher value than haste (which i think it will be). So don't write of haste like that just yet. Mastery is only gonna buff one ability ST besides Chaos Blades autos lol.

[Krille]

What are you basing this on? Do you have a source? Currently on my 913 Demon Hunters stat values are weighing Crit, Haste and Mastery above agility when my base stats are 40% crit, 13% haste and 33% mastery. Crit is a fair bit ahead of everything else due to the 41st and 2nd traits, but then haste and mastery are equal. This CB change literally takes away all the point of mastery stacking, it goes from an amazing stat to a just ok stat. Vers is also, just an ok stat. That leaves us with crit and haste. With the new ToS 2 set and BD buffs, every little bit of haste is going to count, no matter how little the cd reduction is. The lower the cd on BD the faster you generate fury, therefore the quantity of chaos strikes you get out is going to be far greater than the quality you get from mastery. Not to mention 100% DB chance I still haven't added in yet. Mastery does not effect the damage of DB, nor BD, the two things they seem to be pushing in ToS with this ptr nerfs, so I struggle to see your point in calling haste a bad stat? Blizzard is obviously trying to push crit haste, not crit mastery with these changes.

In conclusion, do I think Haste will be better than crit? Probably not; will it be better than versatility and mastery? Most definitely. Going over logs, on average, you get 10 hits on chaos blades outside of lust, and meta. With meta you get 12-14. With Lust and meta you get 14-16. Now if you have say 20%~ haste that's an extra 2 autos in that window, plus the 6 seconds they've added on which is even more autos. So the haste increase on autos is better than what you think. Because you are then also generating fury on every one of those autos. Plus a Meta/Lust opener with DB and extra haste, the fury generation is going to be nuts. This is all assuming crit is still higher value than haste (which i think it will be). So don't write of haste like that just yet. Mastery is only gonna buff one ability ST besides Chaos Blades autos lol.

And that "only one ability" happens to be like 40%+ of our dmg so go figure (mastery is really strong in demonic too). To the rest of the text, you do what you must. If you are happier with haste being a better stat then stack it. Just don't go around telling others that it's going to be the best when you know really nothing about it. Everytime a change happens to DH you've got a bunch of people claiming haste is the best stat now, it never is.

[Shamed]

And that "only one ability" happens to be like 40%+ of our dmg so go figure (mastery is really strong in demonic too). To the rest of the text, you do what you must. If you are happier with haste being a better stat then stack it. Just don't go around telling others that it's going to be the best when you know really nothing about it. Everytime a change happens to DH you've got a bunch of people claiming haste is the best stat now, it never is.

I think you are misunderstanding/haven't actually tested the ptr with the new 4set? It's only 40% of our damage currently due to chaos blades and mastery. That is going to change. I did not say haste will be the best stat. I said crit would be, as it always has been. You also have refused to give me anything to back up your claim besides saying nah you're wrong haha. I'm happy to be wrong but I think it should be you who should reconsider going around telling people haste is trash when it's not. It isn't even trash now, just mastery and crit have higher values. Mastery value is going to change with this CB change. Simple maths man.

[Krille]

I think you are misunderstanding/haven't actually tested the ptr with the new 4set? It's only 40% of our damage currently due to chaos blades and mastery. That is going to change. I did not say haste will be the best stat. I said crit would be, as it always has been. You also have refused to give me anything to back up your claim besides saying nah you're wrong haha. I'm happy to be wrong but I think it should be you who should reconsider going around telling people haste is trash when it's not. It isn't even trash now, just mastery and crit have higher values. Mastery value is going to change with this CB change. Simple maths man.

Because i've never claimed any stat to be better in 7.2.5 than now. Because i don't fucking know, and neither do you. So i would stop trying to tell people that haste is going to be shit when you literally have no clue. Also whatever changes that are on the PTR now is bound to change/more stuff getting changed. So any kind of napkin math is a wasted napkin. The only thing that is certain is that mastery will drop some in value, but how much? Nobody knows.

[aGit]

So are we considering this a nerf or what? Only a nerf with current stat weights?

without actually reading anything about it or testing on PTR, this will at least kill dinner bell build, which is not all that bad imo.