Legion - Assassination Discussion

[Generical]

It's okay if you design a class like garbage. Now they have the % auras to fall back on.

[shaunika123]

It's okay if you design a class like garbage. Now they have the % auras to fall back on.

then again, numbers got nothing to do with gameplay

or are you saying that AP was fun to play with?

[iky43210]

they will make it balanced.. just fucking wait for release..

omg

Yeah I'm sure Blizzard have never botched on number tuning before. /s

[scarfdeath]

And how do you know that is all they gonna do ? what if the dmg we lose from AP gets baked into deadly poison ? Its way to early to start doomsday theories on the class after just one small change in a ptr that aint halfways done.

this is what they did now and is not good, if they change it in the future thats when i will check again.

That's not what i said at all. I did not say "HURR DURR ITS JUST PTR" I brought to attention the fact that all these idiots are whining about a gameplay change during the part of the ptr cycle where they are doing zero numbers tuning.

They could make it do 10000% weapon damage and add 100% crit and you idiots would still whine as soon as you see it if you felt it was less than AP on live.

The design is good enough, but the damage lost from losing AP will be added elsewhere when they begin tuning.

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it's 40% increased crit chance for ALL NATURE DAMAGE, including nature damage from DP and procced by fok. So yes, it's a talent that affects both aoe and ST.

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All nature damage. So everything except bleeds, melee hits and mutilate.

against the target

How the fuck are you guys reading that this does anything at all for AoE?

FoK got a buff in damage that makes it do the same damage as it did with AP. big whoop.

[Todesbote]

It seems they actually are replacing AP with a new talent "Toxic Blade". Even though they already said it I didn't think they would do it in 7.2.5 because this destroys Assa. At least now we know that Outlaw will be the go to spec.
It Has been fun. R.I.P Assassination.

[Deleted]

It seems they actually are replacing AP with a new talent "Toxic Blade". Even though they already said it I didn't think they would do it in 7.2.5 because this destroys Assa. At least now we know that Outlaw will be the go to spec.
It Has been fun. R.I.P Assassination.

its a fucking talent, dont use it then? in emerald we were all bleed spec, did you use AP then?

stfu your fucking kid

Infracted.

[Creamz]

It seems they actually are replacing AP with a new talent "Toxic Blade". Even though they already said it I didn't think they would do it in 7.2.5 because this destroys Assa. At least now we know that Outlaw will be the go to spec.
It Has been fun. R.I.P Assassination.

This is just a first shot. Chill.

[nocturnus]

its a fucking talent, dont use it then? in emerald we were all bleed spec, did you use AP then?

stfu your fucking kid

Wow. How about you relax a bit.

[StayTuned]

Yea don't like that Toxic Blade thing that much, It's a burst alright but it doesn't help our AOE problems and also doesn't really seem to mix well with Shoulder leggy


Funny thing is... people say "chill, it's just PTR, numbers will be fixed b4 it goes live".

Toxic Blade already went from 50% to 40%.

On Sub Shuriken Combo went from 50% to 10%!!

Blizz seems to have a habit of going big on PTR and then scaling downwards.

If anything, I believe that it will hit live with a bonus of 25% crit and they'll call it a day.

[Souichirou]

Toxic Blade already went from 50% to 40%.



Blizz seems to have a habit of going big on PTR and then scaling downwards.

If anything, I believe that it will hit live with a bonus of 25% crit and they'll call it a day.

They also reduced the CD by more than half a small dip from 50 to 40% crit isnt that big a deal when most rogues are already running around with 30%~ and factor in they will adjust a few things here and there but the raw fact still remains that its going to be an ability tied to kingsbane and forcing us to use deadly will only increase the proc of applying a deadly poison which ramps the crap out of KB and reduces the CD via Sinister Circulation IF anything its just shifting a few things around which increases our raw poison damage since our tier seems to be bleed heavy.

[nocturnus]

Yea don't like that Toxic Blade thing that much, It's a burst alright but it doesn't help our AOE problems and also doesn't really seem to mix well with Shoulder leggy


Funny thing is... people say "chill, it's just PTR, numbers will be fixed b4 it goes live".

Toxic Blade already went from 50% to 40%.

On Sub Shuriken Combo went from 50% to 10%!!

Blizz seems to have a habit of going big on PTR and then scaling downwards.

If anything, I believe that it will hit live with a bonus of 25% crit and they'll call it a day.

Regardless, it feels like utter shit. Another debuff to track? Really? Where's our fucking Poison Bomb finisher?

For Christ's sake, they could've replaced AP with a PB talent and just buffed DP to make up for the loss of AP. But no, they had to go full retard, as usual.

[StayTuned]

They also reduced the CD by more than half a small dip from 50 to 40% crit isnt that big a deal when most rogues are already running around with 30%~ and factor in they will adjust a few things here and there but the raw fact still remains that its going to be an ability tied to kingsbane and forcing us to use deadly will only increase the proc of applying a deadly poison which ramps the crap out of KB and reduces the CD via Sinister Circulation IF anything its just shifting a few things around which increases our raw poison damage since our tier seems to be bleed heavy.

I just don't see any changes in DPS for now. I wonder how you can tune a ST skill to the point it's a buff.

Getting the feeling as if Assa was never supposed to get a buff, but rather just a switch in game play away from AP but with approximately the same DPS.

Which means it's just another annoyance to keep track of. It's not even as if our CDs line up nicely. Is Blizzard expecting every player to have the BiS gear to make it work smoothly?

[Souichirou]

I just don't see any changes in DPS for now. I wonder how you can tune a ST skill to the point it's a buff.

Getting the feeling as if Assa was never supposed to get a buff, but rather just a switch in game play away from AP but with approximately the same DPS.

Which means it's just another annoyance to keep track of. It's not even as if our CDs line up nicely. Is Blizzard expecting every player to have the BiS gear to make it work smoothly?

Well in theory with the increased application rate of poisons using deadly over current AP kingsbane should come off CD or line up as toxic blades comes back up. ONLY thing thats hard to line up with is vendetta and that was already a nightmare with the gold trait Sinister Circulation as it KB comes off cd and you either use it on CD or hold it for vendetta. But with this KB becomes an even stronger artifact ability than it was to begin with.

[Deleted]

The numbers on this new talent don't bother me. I do wish however that it offered something else than Exsanguinate. As it is now, the usage of Exsanguinate and Toxic Blades will be fundamentally very similar, while offering slightly different gameplay in that you have to handle them differently. They're both dps cooldowns that do a lot of damage within a short time, both are on the current target, and neither will be synchronized with Vendetta/Kingsbane (unless you're running without the boots/ma relics/CoF). Exsanguinate and AP worked differently, with the former being great for bursting and add switching, and the latter encourages tunneling/cleave. Now we will have two talents that fundamentally work the same way.

I'd rather see Toxic Blade just giving a buff to oneself that does the same thing, but affects all targets. This gives us the opportunity to decide between AoE and single target/burst, where Alacrity serves as a middle ground. This is also probably the needed AoE boost that Assassination wants (needs?). As an example, I would probably choose Toxic Blade (if it was the AoE talent I suggested) for Lower Karazhan, while using Exsanguinate in Upper Karazhan and Alacrity in a Darkheart Thicket, where the likelihood that it falls off is low.

I just don't see its worth compared to Exsanguinate (not counting whichever is a bigger dps increase of course) in its current interation. Am I missing something?

[cfStatic]

Hopped on the PTR last night to fool around with Poison Blades.

It feels clunky. I'd really like to get some design insight on it, where they thought it was going to end up in the rotation, how they envisioned it being used. As it is now, I wish the CD was longer so it lined up with KB more cleanly. I'll be interested to find out if using it for the last 8 seconds of KB is better than just popping it at the same time.

[DakonBlackblade]

? if a spell that do 100 has 20% crit then you will do on average 120 of damage and when you have 21% crit the average will be 121.
if you apply the talent then you have 60% and 61% crit, then you will have average 160 and 161 damages. still a 1 of improvement.
this is because, differently than mutilate fok and seal fate, these crits dont have other interation than duplicate the damage.

and if we go to watch the variance on the damage, the fact that with +40% we will go baseline al lot over 50% guarantees us that every point of crit will decrease it

If you crit the exact average amount of times you will crit 61 envenoms out of 100 x 60 envenoms out of 100, meaning that if you have 10 envenoms on your crit window per fight you will only ever have 1 extra crit every 10 fights, so in 9 fights you wasted those stats. You are basicaly getting your crits trough the skill and not trough your stats thats why it devalues crit, and my example used the exact average, you never actualy proc the exact average of times, in reality 1% crit matters even less when you have a 40% buf cause every crit you get is an independent event.

Hopped on the PTR last night to fool around with Poison Blades.

It feels clunky. I'd really like to get some design insight on it, where they thought it was going to end up in the rotation, how they envisioned it being used. As it is now, I wish the CD was longer so it lined up with KB more cleanly. I'll be interested to find out if using it for the last 8 seconds of KB is better than just popping it at the same time.

There are other probles too, like the fact that if your rupture is sub 8 secs you need to spend cps to refresh rup, then build up to 5 cps again , then pool energy to cast this thing and have a full cp envenom upfront right after the cast, and that can potentialy delay everythign even further. This talent should be changed to something that increases poison damage by 40%-50% for 8 secs rather than increasing crit chance and should either have the same cd as KB and be affected by Sinister Circulation like KB is, or have KBs effect roled into it and substitute KB.

it also affects kingsbane which you'll try to sync with.
i think getting as much crit as we can without sacrificing too much mastery, is gonna be the way to go and trying to get as many 4 CP muts in those windows as possible
with proper pooling with both cps and energy we will usually be able to get 3-4 envenoms
it lasts 8 seconds, in what universe would you only get to 4 cp once in 8 seconds?
and that's without starting with 5 cps and instead going TB+KB+envenom


i mean we take the shoulders over anything for 4 guaranteed crit envenoms every 2 minutes, why would something that gives roughly half of that value every 25 seconds be that terrible?

dont get me wrong, i'm not over the moon with it, it could use some polishing, and isnt at all what i expected, but it's still way better and much less restricting than AP is(assuming we get a flat damage buff that is)

Mutilate costs a fucktom of energy, on top of that this talent also costs energy and so does KB, the only reason we get 4 envenoms with the shoulders is because we only mut 1x per envenom, if we had to mut 2x wed barely get 2 envenoms (3 with the initial 5 cp one after pooling energy) and the shoulders also have the massive advantage of making your garrotes and ruptures ticks also crit, wich provides massive DPs gain. Not to mention this talent does not guarantee an envenom crit, if it does not crit itll hurt very badly, and considering AP is gone, Surge of Toxins matter a lot less and the envenom damage itself is much lower, meaning the envenom crit is less important anyway, and on top of that we will not have 4p T19 on Tomb anymore wich further devalues envenom crits. This talent is garbage, Id be amazed if its anywhere near as good as runing Alacricity or Exang.

[ymirsson]

Why does everyone wants our CDs to line up "nicely"? I'd rather have us designed and tuned to the fact that all CDs are not neccessarily synchronous(but not necessairly all desynched either) and be better if by chance they do. So we still can have WTF boom boom logs for the mentally deranged and less hassle with all those buttons to line up if we don't want to suck.

P.s. I want a skill to release a poison bomb.

[davesignal]

Because stacking CDs is how you do a shitload of damage.

[ymirsson]

Because stacking CDs is how you do a shitload of damage.

Thanks for that hint. I was talking about a world where that is not a necessity but a lucky coincidence.

[cfStatic]

There are other probles too, like the fact that if your rupture is sub 8 secs you need to spend cps to refresh rup, then build up to 5 cps again , then pool energy to cast this thing and have a full cp envenom upfront right after the cast, and that can potentialy delay everythign even further. This talent should be changed to something that increases poison damage by 40%-50% for 8 secs rather than increasing crit chance and should either have the same cd as KB and be affected by Sinister Circulation like KB is, or have KBs effect roled into it and substitute KB.

I agree for the most part. Nature damage would've been the way to go over crit%. IMO even a poison version of Shadow Blades would be good - turn everything into nature damage and either have it scale with mastery or +damage% for the duration. +damage feels a little samey to Vendetta, but if it was a self buff it'd make for nice burst aoe on demand and it wouldn't be wildly out of whack for ST.

Why does everyone wants our CDs to line up "nicely"? I'd rather have us designed and tuned to the fact that all CDs are not neccessarily synchronous(but not necessairly all desynched either) and be better if by chance they do. So we still can have WTF boom boom logs for the mentally deranged and less hassle with all those buttons to line up if we don't want to suck.

P.s. I want a skill to release a poison bomb.

For me, it's more to do with the fluidity of the rotation than it is big damage. It's "fine" if you just pool energy, pop PB, and try and envenom spam. But then you're turning around right away with Vendetta and KB coming off CD when it ends and you have to delay them for energy, etc. It's clunky.


Edit: As things stand now, whats everyones opinion on 2pc+4pc and dropping shoulders for bracers/boots for ToS?