Mythic Guldan Questions

[Tojara]

Seeds really aren't that big of a deal. Honestly just grip the adds immediately so that your melee can pile onto the big add as soon as possible. Some of the timings are bad to which the tank baiting flame crashes won't be able to pick it up immediately, so your tank who is on the Demon within should pick it up momentarily after the grip.

We never had wipes due to seed casts, even with people being bad and getting hit multiple times. You're more likely to wipe due to the add being up too long though.

[Deleted]

After triple soaking demonic essence and interrupting visions of the dark titan there is an orb that dies slowly by himself. Is is possible to kill add, soak demonic essence->bubble? Will then illidan have 200% increased damage taken and this debuff will refresh?

[dsqdzd]

After triple soaking demonic essence and interrupting visions of the dark titan there is an orb that dies slowly by himself. Is is possible to kill add, soak demonic essence->bubble? Will then illidan have 200% increased damage taken and this debuff will refresh?

It is possible, few guilds were doing it that way (and maybe still are) but with the nerfs/more gear you can just kill it with 3 stacks before the debuff expires.

[Tojara]

It's possible but I don't see any reason to do it. It just adds an extra layer that you have to learn on a 10+ minute boss that could potentially wipe you. On your first kill (unless you have people dead) the boss is going to be around 40% or lower when he comes out of the 30 second debuff, which means you only have to CC upwards of 4 adds. Depending on your DPS you can just flat out kill him or come pretty close to killing him when the debuff expires. The past reset for us using 4 healers, we had the boss around 10% after the the 30 second debuff expired.

[Deleted]

we totally f'd up the end of our first kill.

We only charged 2 of the 3 essences. Still managed it fine (although a bit panicky) so don't worry if something like that happens. Just execute the rest of the fight properly with CCs. We were around 908-9 ilvl on the kill

[Squishei]

It is possible, few guilds were doing it that way (and maybe still are) but with the nerfs/more gear you can just kill it with 3 stacks before the debuff expires.

Yup, it was a way pre 7.2 to turn the overall P3 DPS check into a 15 second burst DPS check (which was easy with large cooldowns like Draught/Sindy) since it turns turns the buff from 150% bonus damage for 30 seconds to 200% bonus damage for 60 seconds. There's really no reason to do it now at all post 7.2 since there's no risk of wiping to third visions.

[Deleted]

On which bonds are you using heal extra action buttons in p1 ?

[MarshallX]

How the hell do we get the eye that spawns right after the storm (first of the double) to not spawn in fucking China and/or how do we control it better? I'm looking at replays and the eyes spawn and immediately move to the boss and are cleaved. Ours is legit always right on the edge of the platform and doesn't move for shit.

is it a proximity thing? We can taunt and sorta control it but we lose so much damage having our melee run all the way over there to kill it with the bit of ranged we have in that we can't meet the dps check in p2 to phase him before Eye+Storm combo of doom.

[Emancptr]

The Eye spawns in the direction that Gul'dan was facing when he started the Storm of the Destroyer. This means if you have him facing towards the outside of the platform (i.e. haven't turned him around to face the well) you will spawn the Eye 20+ yards further away.

Other than that have someone (preferably Monk for the speed increase) taunt the eye. The taunt needs to happen before the cast starts (difficult but doable if you're very quick) or after the cast has finished and the eye has started channeling. Otherwise the eye will effectively ignore the taunt while it casts.

[Nitros14]

All empowered bonds, you usually only get 3 empowered, but with lower p1 dps you may get 4.

We were getting five empowered because we are bad, so we skipped scattering on first empowered. You underestimate how bad the dps is for guilds getting to the fight now.

[Creraria]

The Eye spawns in the direction that Gul'dan was facing when he started the Storm of the Destroyer. This means if you have him facing towards the outside of the platform (i.e. haven't turned him around to face the well) you will spawn the Eye 20+ yards further away.

Other than that have someone (preferably Monk for the speed increase) taunt the eye. The taunt needs to happen before the cast starts (difficult but doable if you're very quick) or after the cast has finished and the eye has started channeling. Otherwise the eye will effectively ignore the taunt while it casts.

The Taunt is the other way around, if you taunt it before the cast it wont move to you, during the cast it will.
Source: main taunter

[Dracodraco]

The Taunt is the other way around, if you taunt it before the cast it wont move to you, during the cast it will.
Source: main taunter

I think you might be misunderstanding the difference between cast and channel. There's 3 states to the eye:

1: Just spawned, not casted yet. Super fast taunt will work.
2: Winding up CAST, taunt won't work.
3: CHANNELING beams, taunt will work.

If you taunt before the channel (so during the cast), it'll just ignore you. If you taunt after the cast but during the channel, it'll move (your own kill video shows this as well, eye stands still untill it starts doing beams).

[meroko]

The buff doesn't last that long.

I believe it lasts 1 min if you get it to 200%

[Sonqopura]

Quick question here. We have roughly 50 pulls so far and have made it to ph2 8-10 times, 3 of which were good tries i.e. everyone was alive and we did not have to use any CR thus far. When would it be optimal to use hero, at the start of phase 1 to try and skip the 2nd add or at the end of phase 2? We did some tries with hero on phase 1 and we still had the 2nd add up (which is pretty much a waste of hero)but we were skipping the hellfires for the most part and the bonds.

What would be the best course of action for the first kill? I keep telling the group that using hero in phase 1 is a waste as it is much easier than phase 2 and the 2nd add does not really do anything. These are the logs from our previous attempts so that you can also see the raid damage. I cannot post links so I am just including the report id: /reports/DMCkLP94Y6y1Gc3f

[Tojara]

Basically if you can't do P1 in ~2:57 seconds (I think), you're better off not lusting in P1 and drawing out the phase roughly another minute. There is a semi hard combo shortly after the second add spawns, but you should be entering P2 cleanly and no add up. Personally for learning I think trying to beat that timer and lusting in P1 is the correct course of action, but if you're hopelessly behind or don't push that timing consistently, you might very well run into DPS problems in P2 (unless you have a great execute comp.

With a sub 3 minute P1 healers can actually contribute quite a bit of damage and you can just used the healer bubble on every single empowered bonds (thus limiting movement for your range).

Both P1/P2 are pretty easy if you can skip the timings after the second big add in P1, and have the DPS to push the boss to P3 without the 5th eye spawning. Well, 'easy' is relative, but you can skip a lot of the harder parts of the encounter now.

[kaib]

You can use bloodlust in 3 spots:
A) phase 1 to skip second add
B) beginning of phase 2 to shorten the phase and skip the not-soaked harvest into storm combo
C) phase 2 on 15% to make the push to 0% before phase 3 starts

Just forget about option C. you don't need it. you likely don't even need dps potions and/or cooldowns if you have 20 alive. We used 2 tanks/4 healers and used nothing and made that push. Our raid's dps is okay but nothing to get excited about. if you have problems, just use the second potion here. don't keep lust for this.

B) certainly works but most guilds that do that still push phase 1 before the second add. that's typically nothing you do on your first kill. it's overall probably the best and most efficient way as it means you can kill the boss in 10 minutes as you don't have to hold dps during the storm/harvest combo.

A) is what I strongly suggest to anyone working on Guldan right now. Phase 1 is a lot about people learning correct movement and maximizing their dps. Just use lust and zerg it. Note that bloodlust and the encounter haste buff stack but they don't stack all that well as the encounter buff reduces uptime on cooldowns and bloodlust itself:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...6&ability=2825

you can see there that people that stack the encounter buff with lust only get around 37s duration. it's likely still fine for some classes and certainly the lazy approach. I prefer using the time dilation extra action button after the second liquid hellfire, around 1:15m into the fight. the only problem is that there are bonds happening and if you get those bonds yourself, it breaks.

Anyway, using lust phase 1 means you should comfortably skip the second add and only get 3 empowered bonds total, which means you'll have healer bubbles to break all of them and the range don't have to run and soak. It makes phase 1 a lot easier and phase 1 is the most complicated part of the fight.

If you lust in phase 1, you won't be able to skip the not-soaked harvest/storm combo late in phase 2. that hardly matters though - unless your only goal is to have a high dps ranking. just get dragged to the south by the winds, drop some healing CDs (spirit link, darkness). not a big deal at all. the boss should be between 12-15% at this point. after the storm/harvest ends, use as little personals/potions as you need to push him to 0% before phase 3 starts. your dps has to figure out how much they have to use there.

welcome to phase 3. ignore boss dps. totally pointless. make sure people understand parasites BEFORE getting to phase 3. 10 min wipes to someone asking 'i was supposed to run where with that?' isn't fun. Overall there's nothing super complicated going on. People with parasites run in. zerg parasites. mage tanks the orb. the orbs damage themself. don't go nuts on them. you want to kill them when the timer for 'world devouring force' (i think that's the name at least) is between 0 and -5. ideally just on zero. if you kill it 2-3s before that timer hits 0, the time zone will disappear too early and you're dead. try again.

you just kill the second nightorb, thta one is not used for anything. the 3rd nightorb lines up with the 4th big add. those have to be focused down - but there is a parasite spawn at that time too, make sure melee dps isn't stupid, they have to kill that of course. Again, the nightorb should die just after the big boom timer hits 0. soak the 3 essences, step in and congrats, you've won.
Seriously, if you get this done with 18+ pepole alive, there's not much you can wipe to other than ignoring parasites. And again, before this damage done to the boss really doesn't matter. This is when you do damage to the boss and you don't need to do much before that to still be able to kill it.

Spawn stuff for varius things in phase 3:



orange = flames of azzinoth spawn
skull = flames of azzinoth kill spot
gem = nightorb spawn spot
kill first flames close to where nightorb 3 spawns, use 2nd flames to charge nightorb 1
cleave down/don't use nightorb, just tank and ignore nightorb 4
kill flames 1,3 and 4 next to nightorb 3
CC the 3 flames 5,6,7

[Brokeback]

You can use bloodlust in 3 spots:
A) phase 1 to skip second add
B) beginning of phase 2 to shorten the phase and skip the not-soaked harvest into storm combo
C) phase 2 on 15% to make the push to 0% before phase 3 starts

Just forget about option C. you don't need it. you likely don't even need dps potions and/or cooldowns if you have 20 alive. We used 2 tanks/4 healers and used nothing and made that push. Our raid's dps is okay but nothing to get excited about. if you have problems, just use the second potion here. don't keep lust for this.

B) certainly works but most guilds that do that still push phase 1 before the second add. that's typically nothing you do on your first kill. it's overall probably the best and most efficient way as it means you can kill the boss in 10 minutes as you don't have to hold dps during the storm/harvest combo.

A) is what I strongly suggest to anyone working on Guldan right now. Phase 1 is a lot about people learning correct movement and maximizing their dps. Just use lust and zerg it. Note that bloodlust and the encounter haste buff stack but they don't stack all that well as the encounter buff reduces uptime on cooldowns and bloodlust itself:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...6&ability=2825

This comes down to class comp/executes/CD timing. You can easily beat the Fel Lord spawn without hero/pots if your raid can also legitimately take him from 15->0 before Eye/Storm without overreliance on execute classes.

But starting with Hero in phase 1 is good to see P2 more. Eventually you may decide you won't need it for P1 anymore and can start using it for P2, so you can start seeing P3 more.

[kaib]

This comes down to class comp/executes/CD timing. You can easily beat the Fel Lord spawn without hero/pots if your raid can also legitimately take him from 15->0 before Eye/Storm without overreliance on execute classes.

But starting with Hero in phase 1 is good to see P2 more. Eventually you may decide you won't need it for P1 anymore and can start using it for P2, so you can start seeing P3 more.

there's no reason to lust in phase 2 outside of wanting to parse high. if you get with 20 to phase 2, you'll get to phase 3 soon enough. and to do high dps in phase 1, you actually have to play well as range dps as its a lot about moving correctly. the push from 15% to 0% not a single ability outside of flames of sargeras happens. anyone can press 1234 in the correct order to do decent dps while standing still for forty seconds. I really don't see a point in using lust in phase 2 on progress.

[Deleted]

there's no reason to lust in phase 2 outside of wanting to parse high. if you get with 20 to phase 2, you'll get to phase 3 soon enough. and to do high dps in phase 1, you actually have to play well as range dps as its a lot about moving correctly. the push from 15% to 0% not a single ability outside of flames of sargeras happens. anyone can press 1234 in the correct order to do decent dps while standing still for forty seconds. I really don't see a point in using lust in phase 2 on progress.

Some people lust p2 simply because they can't push him before 5th eye without it. Yes you are correct, if the boss is at 15% after 3rd harvest then most guilds will easily push him without lust. But many guilds progressing don't manage that 15% and have the boss higher, so they need lust to push there.

The answer to when to lust simply depends on your progress state. If you have decided you push p1 before Fel Lord and you can do that consistently without lust then great, use it on the last part of p2. If half of your tries are wipes cos you couldn't push p1 on time then just hero in p1 and make sure you get to p2 often so you can practice it.

For us, the p2 check was easier than p1 (we did have a lot of execute tho) so we ended up using hero on pull (and on p3 which also means the boss dies 30 seconds after 2nd visions) and 2nd pot on p2 @ 15%.

[Nitros14]

there's no reason to lust in phase 2 outside of wanting to parse high. if you get with 20 to phase 2, you'll get to phase 3 soon enough. and to do high dps in phase 1, you actually have to play well as range dps as its a lot about moving correctly. the push from 15% to 0% not a single ability outside of flames of sargeras happens. anyone can press 1234 in the correct order to do decent dps while standing still for forty seconds. I really don't see a point in using lust in phase 2 on progress.

Our dps is bad so we lust p2 to skip Eye 5.