Top End guilds quitting

[Deleted]

The guilds (correct me if i missed anyone)

Exorsus going casual
From Scratch going casual
Danish terrace stopped raiding
Serenity disbanded
Piecies
Midwinter
Danish Terrace stopped raiding

I think you missed Ðanish Terrace.

[Xofa]

So what.. I say it again: So FUCKING what?!

[Tradu]

Guilds are like bands and likely to fly apart at any time. Personally I don't believe that well-known guilds breaking up and quitting has much of an effect on the raiding community at all. People do what they do. It's none of Blizzard's affair to try and keep top end guilds together if they don't want to be together any longer.

You're right that top guilds disbanding doesn't directly impact the rest of the raiding community, but the reasons for the top guilds disbanding/going casual are the same ones that have caused a lot of issues for guilds at all levels. Essentially it's not the top guilds causing it, but they're just more obvious examples of issues that exist in Legion raiding in general.

[Gaidax]

No, they are obviously quitting because of WoW token, store mounts, flying prequest and Black Temple LFR.

The usual thread, take a thing I don't like and tie it to a guild disbanding and fuck all the facts.

[Tradu]

No, they are obviously quitting because of WoW token, store mounts, flying prequest and Black Temple LFR.

The usual thread, take a thing I don't like and tie it to a guild disbanding and fuck all the facts.

With the slight difference that plenty of top raiders have said that they dislike the Legion grind fiesta, so it's likely it at least played a part in the guilds disbanding (Exorsus straight up said the insane amount of effort isn't worth it)

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Meh. Why do we care? Those people have a right to spend their time in ways they enjoy just like we do. I've never planned to play WoW forever, so it makes perfect sense that they would also move on to other passions. No matter how good you are or how much you enjoy it, at the end of the day it's just a game. The world is bigger than any one game, any one hobby.

[NatePsy]

You mention loot being an issue.. Have you actually raided Mythic? To me it feels more like the fact you need to have a consistent roster of 20 players every single week. No less. That's what's proving a challenge for the guild I'm in, despite numerous recruiting. Just shut up with the WF and TF, sounds like a personal issue with the system, I raid all difficulties and I have no issue with how it works.

[Puri]

The first part of what you said makes absolutely no sense. Streaming revenue is much higher now than in the past, hence why more people do it. here have never been any rewards/profits from competing for world first, it's just prestige

For wow streams? I think you might be mistaken. It is much easier to get the said increased revenue by streaming currently more popular games like overwatch or lol.
Starting from Paragons Alienware giveaways people in the high end guild always were sponsored.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

You're right that top guilds disbanding doesn't directly impact the rest of the raiding community, but the reasons for the top guilds disbanding/going casual are the same ones that have caused a lot of issues for guilds at all levels. Essentially it's not the top guilds causing it, but they're just more obvious examples of issues that exist in Legion raiding in general.

Seems to me there is a continuum between play style A and B, where:

• A has a favorite character and wants to always have some way to advance that character anytime they decide to log on.
• B wants to have several alts min-maxed for cutting edge mythic progression.

The two can never be 100% compatible and Blizz will always have to decide where on that continuum to turn the dial. Sure, there are also a lot of other play styles, but the conundrum for high end raiders seems (to me) to stem from this dichotomy.

[kamuimac]

The guilds (correct me if i missed anyone)

Exorsus going casual
From Scratch going casual
Danish terrace stopped raiding
Serenity disbanded
Piecies
Midwinter
Ðanish Terrace stopped raiding

Since Serenity is a hot topic right now i wonder what is the most common confirmed issue from those players/guilds that made them go casual or stop in general.

Is it the AP/Legendary system grind for mains, alts (switching alt to the main because better legendary has dropped.)
Which causes general burnout while chasing ap/leg goals and feeling behind and under pressure more then ever because its a race. Compared to previous exp if u play less.

Or is it the feeling of being unrewarded for doing more content and not being in control like someone who did 500 dungeons and 8 legendaries collected not having BiS legendary while some newbie getting it as his 1st one. And of course feeling unrewarded from doing mythic which only provides 900-905 gear and 910 from Guldan. While u can get 905 from weekly chest. And a much higher chance of TitanForge from spamming m+.

Or maybe the most unfair thing people getting 925 Titanforges from LFR, NM etc with 0 effort, while mythic raiders spend countless hours progressing bosses and getting lesser reward.

P.S. Do you think the fact that top guilds are quitting (and this is a blow to wow raiding community) will be a wake up call for Blizzard that their system has some serious flaws or are they just going to ignore that since this is only top end guilds problems who make 0.0001% of player base.

yes lets hope this will wake blizzard up so they remove usless mode that mythic raids are and focus on real content that 95 % of playerbase wants.

[Shammyrock]

To be honest I can't imagine going to levels of commitment to a video game these guys do even for one tier. That's probably the biggest reason, and it's a personal one.

[Tradu]

Seems to me there is a continuum between play style A and B, where:

• A has a favorite character and wants to always have some way to advance that character anytime they decide to log on.
• B wants to have several alts min-maxed for cutting edge mythic progression.

The two can never be 100% compatible and Blizz will always have to decide where on that continuum to turn the dial. Sure, there are also a lot of other play styles, but the conundrum for high end raiders seems (to me) to stem from this dichotomy.

The initial Legion systems were way too far in one direction, though. 7.2 is much more reasonable(still don't necessarily like it, but definitely better than before), which is why at least Exorsus is considering maybe "taking a look" at ToS.

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For wow streams? I think you might be mistaken. It is much easier to get the said increased revenue by streaming currently more popular games like overwatch or lol.
Starting from Paragons Alienware giveaways people in the high end guild always were sponsored.

Obviously there's better games for streaming, but WoW has definitely gotten more profitable than in the past(otherwise there wouldn't be so many people doing it essentially full-time).
And the players don't get paid, they might get a mousepad or something every so often, that's about where it ends.

[Gaidax]

With the slight difference that plenty of top raiders have said that they dislike the Legion grind fiesta, so it's likely it at least played a part in the guilds disbanding (Exorsus straight up said the insane amount of effort isn't worth it)

Oh lol, you are one of those guys who buys into what they say officially? Cute.

This is all about money and key members being spineless shits with incompetent management.

In casey of Serenity, you literally had key members go back to Method because Serenity did not play out. If they'd burn out they would quit the game but they didn't, so OPs BS does not fly and it does not matter what Failrenity GM said in official message - fact is people quit to go to another WF capable guild, not quit the game.

Serenity simply failed because it banked on being carried by big names, they were not much of a guild, but a gathering of individuals with their own agendas.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

The AP system forces you to play every day. Not only play every day, but to do the same boring crap every time. It's also there to give people the illusion of content, Legion has actually had less content than all the other expansions except WoD.

[Emerald Archer]

In Serenity yes, and I am aware that guilds just fall apart due to human factor and leadership/communication problems, someone just quit due to IRL.

But do you really think that is the only reason this time around and Blizzards system has nothing to do with it. That it is all just a coincidence that top end guilds who have been together for 5-10 yeah consistently worlds best just fell apart due to human factor.

Raiders themselves reported that it is harder to compete in race for world 1st just due the ap/leg system and feeling behind others if u grind less.

Sure some will stay and reform but the fact that so many raiders declined the grind system necessary to compete in the race means nothing?

You asked about Serenity, it wasn't to do with anything Blizzard related, it was in house issues. You can jump on other guilds going casual/disbanding (in these guilds though, a huge portion of players still competitively raid, nearly all, just some went to guilds that only require 1 raiding character, etc and aren't so hard ass, still full clearing new raids in the first month) But that's old news.

As far as I'm concerned, this thread is just a necro of an old topic. Nothing new that's relevant.

More raiders that quit their guilds, still raid, than don't. Most of their guilds (and they've said this) fell apart because the LEADERSHIP (3-6ish people) got burnt out. And the players that did, a lot had to keep 4 or so characters raid ready, and just went to guilds that require just 1 or 2.

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No, they don't need to just suck it up. They have every right to complain about a system they think is bullshit, and even quit over it if they want.

It's a stupid issue to have, who cares if some pleb gets a few high ilvl pieces, it doesn't make them good. And top raiders are still going to get excellent gear.

[Tradu]

Oh lol, you are one of those guys who buys into what they say officially? Cute.

This is all about money and key members being spineless shits with incompetent management.

In casey of Serenity, you literally had key members go back to Method because Serenity did not play out. If they'd burn out they would quit the game but they didn't, so OPs BS does not fly and it does not matter what Failrenity GM said in official message - fact is people quit to go to another WF capable guild, not quit the game.

Serenity simply failed because it banked on being carried by big names, they were not much of a guild, but a gathering of individuals with their own agendas.

No, I buy into what a bunch of them say in "private" on discord.

[Tradu]

You asked about Serenity, it wasn't to do with anything Blizzard related, it was in house issues. You can jump on other guilds going casual/disbanding (in these guilds though, a huge portion of players still competitively raid, nearly all, just some went to guilds that only require 1 raiding character, etc and aren't so hard ass, still full clearing new raids in the first month) But that's old news.

As far as I'm concerned, this thread is just a necro of an old topic. Nothing new that's relevant.

More raiders that quit their guilds, still raid, than don't. Most of their guilds (and they've said this) fell apart because the LEADERSHIP (3-6ish people) got burnt out. And the players that did, a lot had to keep 4 or so characters raid ready, and just went to guilds that require just 1 or 2.

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It's a stupid issue to have, who cares if some pleb gets a few high ilvl pieces, it doesn't make them good. And top raiders are still going to get excellent gear.

Nobody gives a fuck what gear random LFR plebs have, that's not the issue. The issue is that it completely breaks the gear/reward system for everybody, which does include allowing LFR to give max titanforged gear, but by no means is that the main problem with it.

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If I read the article correctly, some of them (who were also absolute core people) quit due to RL reasons? Also guilds usually write the reasons why they quit into their blogs / articles - and THEN forum people come in, make a thread and second guess how in the end it was all Blizzard doing it after all.

Case in point, why does the system have a serious flaw if, like you said, it only affects 0,0001% of the player base?

Also, you forgot that Death and Taxes and Nihilum / Ensidia as well as Paragon quit. Who are them you say? Well...guilds from ye olden days which goes to show: Top guilds have always quit.

The issues with Legion systems don't just affect 0.0001% of the playerbase, it breaks the reward structure for everybody(which some people might find COOL and EXCITING, but I know a lot of people, including very casual players, who don't)

[PowerOfTwo]

You can still raid Mythic and clear the raid in good time with just a bit more effort than clearing heroic.

Eeeeeeh not realy. The "average" non world / server first competing mythic guild will clear HC in a week, 2 AT MOST , and still take 3-5 months to clear Mythic (depending on tier ofc, EN was a push over, NH... not so much). There is also the problem that without alot of cutting edge guilds throwing shit at the wall , bug fixes , nerfs and tactics take longer to trickle down.

You mention loot being an issue.. Have you actually raided Mythic? To me it feels more like the fact you need to have a consistent roster of 20 players every single week. No less. That's what's proving a challenge for the guild I'm in, despite numerous recruiting. Just shut up with the WF and TF, sounds like a personal issue with the system, I raid all difficulties and I have no issue with how it works.

Me Me Me. Well we're a 9/10 mythic guild and we have to bench 3-5 ranged for gul'dan every week, and you know wich of the ranged are benched? the ones with lower AP / Legendaries / TF.

[Alexeht]

Not many cared about Serenity seasonal guild anyway lol

[Nephcyte]

You mention loot being an issue.. Have you actually raided Mythic? To me it feels more like the fact you need to have a consistent roster of 20 players every single week. No less. That's what's proving a challenge for the guild I'm in, despite numerous recruiting. Just shut up with the WF and TF, sounds like a personal issue with the system, I raid all difficulties and I have no issue with how it works.

In the post i emphasize on Legion. Getting 20 players together for a guild has been an issue since vanilla so your argument is irrelevant. Yes i have raided mythic and killed guldan a few weeks ago. There are plenty of people who feel that Nighthold loot is unrewarding 905-910 gear for amount of effort it takes to gather players and progress bosses.

People raid for rewards and those just don't feel rewarding enough compared to someone who does m+ 10 weekly and gets 905 every week. Which takes like 20 minutes and 0 effort. Or blast trough NM/HC Nighthold pug and get 925 TtitanForged loot while guilds spending month gathering right people and progressing Nighthold finally killing a Elisande a get 910 baseline for all that effort.

Honestly you would get much more 915-925 gear if you just spam mythics 10+ and it would be so much more time efficient then mythic raiding. The only exception is Tier and trinkets.

People getting better rewards for doing easier content is unfair imo.