8.0 What should be left behind

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Trim some of the RNG. Not all RNG related things but some of it.

[Maorin]

Hearthstones are not needed - use inkeeper daughter instead or any other toy, simply set hs by speaking with inkeeper, throw away (delete) hs and use toy

[Tradu]

Only thing they need to leave behind in next expac is Artifact weapons and legendaries. Titanforging might not be the best, but it give you a reason to keep playing.

I do however want the old talent system back. More freedom. Current give hardly any customization and its way to easy to find a cookie cutter and go with it.

Titanforging is also a reason to quit because you get repeatedly fucked and fall behind on gear. And old talents were WAY more cookie-cutter than current ones. The current ones are only cookie-cutter for some specs, for most specs there's a bunch of optimization you can do on a fight to fight basis.

[Alvito]

Modern MMORPGs just have grouping up as option.

How well are those modern mmos doing and why aren't we being flooded with this new exciting solo game play?

[Deleted]

How well are those modern mmos doing and why aren't we being flooded with this new exciting solo game play?

They are doing really well. As like SWTOR and TESO.

[TheLimonTree]

Immersion cooking? Really?

Tell me about the immersion of mining without pickaxe

I'm pretty sure it's implied you have one on hand if you're a trained miner, kind of like how you don't need flint and tinder to make a fire anymore. Not having to place a fire would be more akin to just auto looting a vein when you walk up to it.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure it's implied you have one on hand if you're a trained miner, kind of like how you don't need flint and tinder to make a fire anymore. Not having to place a fire would be more akin to just auto looting a vein when you walk up to it.

That's almost the case. I remember when we had to mine a vein repeatedly to get all the stuff. Now it's just one click. And you needed firewood for the cooking fire.
See, that's what I mean. Most of these are relics of more complex systems. Time to go into one direction. I'd go with the old style if possible, but if Blizzard wants to go the casual role, do it properly. No point in half measures.

[melodramocracy]

Ditch everything that's been leading this game towards the direction of "arpg" and start over. What this game has always lacked is any risk, and any negative to a specific element's upside.

Talents are brought up. People argue that talents right now are an 'illusion' of choice (which is a misused term to be honest). One of the issues is that there's no downside in picking the most optimal talents for a given situation, and because of that there's generally one *best* way, at a given item level or gear situation, to use those talents. Same goes for now-defunct stats like hit. Hit wasn't a bad stat, the problem was that it had a soft cap, and players did not have to worry about balancing it with anything else past a certain point.

The OP mentions flight paths, and this is another great example. There's no player involvement in using one, and in fact I still use them most of the time simply because I can alt-tab out. More interesting would be to make these things have some sort of involvement, for example, having to deal with weather elements in some fashion, or enemies trying to dismount you. The solution isn't to put in fast travel, which frankly sucks in every implementation I've ever tried.

[threads]

the whole class design team.

[Alvito]

They are doing really well. As like SWTOR and TESO.

Not nearly as well as WoW. SWTOR is doing so well they are still having people run the original opps instead of making new things. Hate it or love it WoW is still the goliath in the industry. Parting with feature people play it for is a horrible idea.

[Deleted]

Hate it or love it WoW is still the goliath in the industry. Parting with feature people play it for is a horrible idea.

Probably it would be bigger if it wouldnt adress mainly those who like to group up.

You know, there is no single player RPG in the world of warcraft. As long there isnt, the best chance to address RPG players would be to allow a lot of solo experience in the already existing MMORPG, with a shift towards content distribution among everyone no matter if he wishes to group up.

Actually, WoW always was meant to be a broad audience game. There is a very large audience of solo rpg players.

While i play the game for close to 12 years already, it never fully adressed my preference of playing mainly solo.

[Reckoniize]

Well it is that time again. Fake leaks are comming and we will most likely get an expansion announcement at Gamescom. I mean we probably won't have more than one major content patch after Argus, and the new expansion will need to be beta tested as well.

TL;DR: It is time to look towards the future. I will make separate threads about what will most likely be in the new expansion. Here I want to talk about what shouldn't be.

Of course this is just my opinion. I know I don't speak for the entire community. Probably not even the majority. So feel free to disagree. As long as you can phrase and support your arguments properly.

Also, this is more of a wishlist than a cheklist. Not all of them have to be met, but I would prefer to see most of them happen.

Also also a very extensive rework is always a possible answer. They don't really need to remove anything. Just their current version.

So let's jump in! This is going to be long:

Old models

This one is obvious. The game is old. The graphics are old. An engine update is long overdue. But that can't happen in a simple expansion. What can be done is to update all the NPC , gear and monster models that haven't been updated in the recent expansions. You might not think it is a big deal that kids still look like the way they did in Vanilla for example, but it totally is. Also, throw out the cataclysm leveling gear. Ditching all the unique looking equipment in favour of generic stuff that don't fit any racial or class aesthetics was a mistake. Let's take the engine as far as possible.

Bags

Let's be honest. Bags suck. As far as gear go they are pointless. They don't make our characters look different and they don't give stat bonuses. They just limit our inventory. There is a reason why every MMO uses simply an inventory that is far larger than our backpack and can be extended later for money. We could do the same if the code allows it. To make sure tailors don't lose revenue, let's make bags consumables that increase the inventory size. This would be much simpler than emptying a bag, putting it in the inventory and putting a bigger bag in its place.

Hearthstones

Don't get me wrong. Hearthstones are awesome. We get a return spell. Cool. We need that. But do we really need that to occupy a slot in our inventory? Why can't it be an ability? Or an icon on the interface? Sure it is just one slot, but still. There really isn't a reason for it.

Cooking fire

Not much of a hassle, I admit. Just two clicks before you can cook. But still, why? We can mine without mining picks and skin animals without a knife. Hell, we pull mounts out of thin air. Can't we just imagine a cooking fire being present and simply craft?

Forge and anvil requirements

Again, this is stupid. The game has no problem letting us hammer things without a hammer, but an imaginary anvil is too much. Either go back to the old system where you need to equip tools be in the right place to level professons, or throw away all these silly requirements.

Flight paths

Yes, quick travel is important. But it isn't really quick, is it? Do we need to see the entire flight? How about we use flight masters as instant travel points?

The current talent system

AKA the only thing I really disliked about MoP. Hey, we threw out the old talent system because there was a "correct way" to allocate talent points and we want to avoid that. Well news flash. That's still a thing. Also we don't get talents at the same intervals. For non hero classes it's mostly every 15 levels with the last comming after 10. But for Death Knights it is a total clusterfuck. 56, 57, 58, 60, 75, 90, 100. Let's try again, shall we? Or if they really don't want correct and incorrect ways, let's just forget about talents.

Classes and specs

A rather complicated issue. First thing first: The Legion class design isn't the best. The specs need rework. Also thanks to order halls and demon hunters, there is not much the devs can do if the want to add things. A new non-hero class? That needs a new order hall with storylines, followers and at least two artifact weapons. A fourth spec for classes? Druid already has a fourth and demon hunter doesn't even have a third. Also, new artifact weapons. Triple spec? No point. We can change specs basically any time we are not in combat. But honestly sometimes I'm not even sure we need some of these specs. Does rogue need three melee DPS specs for example? Why can't one be an evasion and/or parry based tank? Tanking mage with shields and teleport? Why not? I know removing specs would be problematic but sometimes it feels like a class has more specs because it is expected to have more. (Warlock and rogue especially).

Weapon requirements for abilities

No, I don't want to decapitate mobs with arrows, but when every warrior skill needs a two handed weapon, but all quest rewards are one handed I start to get irritated. Let's forget about this nonsense and just go with melee weapon, ranged weapon, dual wield and shield.

Class trainers

You know. All the NPCs that are still present but have absolutely no use. It would be nice to give them class quest that reward core abilities or gear. If not, remove them.

Epic mounts

Put down the pitchfork. This is not what you think. I'm not saying we should remove the models for them. But at this point there is nothing equip left about them. There was a time when having epic mounts meant something. You could only get them at the level cap, they were expensive and they were faster than the regular mounts. Now you get epic ground mounts at 40 (the level cap is 110), mount speed is dependant on the riding skill, and they are also account bound. They are no longer status symbols. So why do we need normal looking and slightly better looking mount at the same time if they are functionally the same? Why not just keep the epic mount models and have them available at 20? Or give them something extra?

Heirlooms

My least favorite thing in wow. I understand why they were implemented. To help alts. But it is mostly used to prance around in low level zones and challenge people to duels. Good for you. You have an indestructible magic item in a gear slot that won't be filled for the next 20 levels if you stick to normal gear. You got it to level up faster so stop wasting time with people that don't provide a challenge when duelled.
I might be just salty, but still. I'm sure there is a better way to make the game more alt friendly.

copper and silver coins

A small thing, but I think having gold is more tan enough. Especially since that would avoid eyeroll inducing things like a huge chunk of gold ore being worth five silver coins. Really?

Bloodles, limbless, featherless quest mobs

You know these types of quests. Get ten wolf paws. Okay. But only every third wolf has a paw and even they have only one. I know this extends game time and maintains the illusion of content, but it is still super irritating. And Final Fantasy XIV does not do it.

Quest lines that should be one quest in reality

The typical: we have tons of new quests lie. Well that's cool. Provided there aren't quests like: go talk to this guy right next to me. The flight path introduction quest goes like this. 1. go to the flight master. 2. fly to the capital and talk to the merchant. 3. go to the capital flight master. 4. talk to the original quest giver. Four quests that should be one.

Dungeon and raid difficulties

Pitchfork time, I know. But seriously. Do we need four difficulties for dungeons and raids? Nah. That's just the illusion of having more content, when in fact we don't. Having normal and mythic + is more than enough for one dungeon. When Final Fantasy XIV does a hard mode of a dungeon it is continues the story of the regular one and uses a different layout, with new bosses. Like old and new deadmines. Also, ditch LFR ASAP. I am perfectly fine with raiding being too difficult for me. No need to dumb it down to a level where you can kill Archimonde at level 100 without paying attention to what you are doing. Raids aren't meant to be facerolled.

Gimmicks that are only relevant for one expansion

A no brainer really. Garrisons are only used between 90 and 100. We already know that artifact weapons won't stick around after 110. I know nothing can be done retroactively, but I really really really hope that the next expansion won't bring a new system that is only used for 10 levels out of 120.

Random drop legendaries

Nope. Bad idea. Nothing legendary about them now. Let's go back to insanely long difficult questlines.

This literally just sounds like you want WoW to become a Final Fantasy XIV clone. Why not just go play Final Fantasy XIV? You already made multiple references to it.

[bufferunderrun]

LFR is fine.

Which isn't fine is LFR with Tf that can out itmlvl normal or Heroic gear base

Beside this if you dislike lfr.... Just don't do it?

what isn't fine is lfr not having a shared lockout with all the other difficulties, blizzard don't do it because they still dream about peoples doing lfr and then wanting to go into normal when reality is that most peoples from normal are forced by stupid guilds to go into lfr.


as for what 8.0 should leave behind

1) table missions
2) wF/TF, random tertiary stats, random socket
3) ap/ak
4) no fly till random date
5) forced pvp on pve server
6) current professions

what i like to see:
1) real housing, something totally optional without any gameplay implication that you do only if you want to do
2) return of good wotlk ol'days when the only rng on gear was the chance a piece had to drop, plus return of sockets and enchants
3) no more ap crap in any form, lets go back to normal weapons drop like it has always been
4) flying available at cap with a good quest you can do without any time gating (and without any rep farming and shit like that)
5) pvp flag on pve server can only be enabled by the user
6) old good profession without ranks, rng, etc., maybe quest should stay but shouldn't been too long

[jackofwind]

Well it is that time again. Fake leaks are comming and we will most likely get an expansion announcement at Gamescom. I mean we probably won't have more than one major content patch after Argus, and the new expansion will need to be beta tested as well.

TL;DR: It is time to look towards the future. I will make separate threads about what will most likely be in the new expansion. Here I want to talk about what shouldn't be.

Of course this is just my opinion. I know I don't speak for the entire community. Probably not even the majority. So feel free to disagree. As long as you can phrase and support your arguments properly.

Also, this is more of a wishlist than a cheklist. Not all of them have to be met, but I would prefer to see most of them happen.

Also also a very extensive rework is always a possible answer. They don't really need to remove anything. Just their current version.

So let's jump in! This is going to be long:

Old models

This one is obvious. The game is old. The graphics are old. An engine update is long overdue. But that can't happen in a simple expansion. What can be done is to update all the NPC , gear and monster models that haven't been updated in the recent expansions. You might not think it is a big deal that kids still look like the way they did in Vanilla for example, but it totally is. Also, throw out the cataclysm leveling gear. Ditching all the unique looking equipment in favour of generic stuff that don't fit any racial or class aesthetics was a mistake. Let's take the engine as far as possible.

Bags

Let's be honest. Bags suck. As far as gear go they are pointless. They don't make our characters look different and they don't give stat bonuses. They just limit our inventory. There is a reason why every MMO uses simply an inventory that is far larger than our backpack and can be extended later for money. We could do the same if the code allows it. To make sure tailors don't lose revenue, let's make bags consumables that increase the inventory size. This would be much simpler than emptying a bag, putting it in the inventory and putting a bigger bag in its place.

Hearthstones

Don't get me wrong. Hearthstones are awesome. We get a return spell. Cool. We need that. But do we really need that to occupy a slot in our inventory? Why can't it be an ability? Or an icon on the interface? Sure it is just one slot, but still. There really isn't a reason for it.

Cooking fire

Not much of a hassle, I admit. Just two clicks before you can cook. But still, why? We can mine without mining picks and skin animals without a knife. Hell, we pull mounts out of thin air. Can't we just imagine a cooking fire being present and simply craft?

Forge and anvil requirements

Again, this is stupid. The game has no problem letting us hammer things without a hammer, but an imaginary anvil is too much. Either go back to the old system where you need to equip tools be in the right place to level professons, or throw away all these silly requirements.

Flight paths

Yes, quick travel is important. But it isn't really quick, is it? Do we need to see the entire flight? How about we use flight masters as instant travel points?

The current talent system

AKA the only thing I really disliked about MoP. Hey, we threw out the old talent system because there was a "correct way" to allocate talent points and we want to avoid that. Well news flash. That's still a thing. Also we don't get talents at the same intervals. For non hero classes it's mostly every 15 levels with the last comming after 10. But for Death Knights it is a total clusterfuck. 56, 57, 58, 60, 75, 90, 100. Let's try again, shall we? Or if they really don't want correct and incorrect ways, let's just forget about talents.

Classes and specs

A rather complicated issue. First thing first: The Legion class design isn't the best. The specs need rework. Also thanks to order halls and demon hunters, there is not much the devs can do if the want to add things. A new non-hero class? That needs a new order hall with storylines, followers and at least two artifact weapons. A fourth spec for classes? Druid already has a fourth and demon hunter doesn't even have a third. Also, new artifact weapons. Triple spec? No point. We can change specs basically any time we are not in combat. But honestly sometimes I'm not even sure we need some of these specs. Does rogue need three melee DPS specs for example? Why can't one be an evasion and/or parry based tank? Tanking mage with shields and teleport? Why not? I know removing specs would be problematic but sometimes it feels like a class has more specs because it is expected to have more. (Warlock and rogue especially).

Weapon requirements for abilities

No, I don't want to decapitate mobs with arrows, but when every warrior skill needs a two handed weapon, but all quest rewards are one handed I start to get irritated. Let's forget about this nonsense and just go with melee weapon, ranged weapon, dual wield and shield.

Class trainers

You know. All the NPCs that are still present but have absolutely no use. It would be nice to give them class quest that reward core abilities or gear. If not, remove them.

Epic mounts

Put down the pitchfork. This is not what you think. I'm not saying we should remove the models for them. But at this point there is nothing equip left about them. There was a time when having epic mounts meant something. You could only get them at the level cap, they were expensive and they were faster than the regular mounts. Now you get epic ground mounts at 40 (the level cap is 110), mount speed is dependant on the riding skill, and they are also account bound. They are no longer status symbols. So why do we need normal looking and slightly better looking mount at the same time if they are functionally the same? Why not just keep the epic mount models and have them available at 20? Or give them something extra?

Heirlooms

My least favorite thing in wow. I understand why they were implemented. To help alts. But it is mostly used to prance around in low level zones and challenge people to duels. Good for you. You have an indestructible magic item in a gear slot that won't be filled for the next 20 levels if you stick to normal gear. You got it to level up faster so stop wasting time with people that don't provide a challenge when duelled.
I might be just salty, but still. I'm sure there is a better way to make the game more alt friendly.

copper and silver coins

A small thing, but I think having gold is more tan enough. Especially since that would avoid eyeroll inducing things like a huge chunk of gold ore being worth five silver coins. Really?

Bloodles, limbless, featherless quest mobs

You know these types of quests. Get ten wolf paws. Okay. But only every third wolf has a paw and even they have only one. I know this extends game time and maintains the illusion of content, but it is still super irritating. And Final Fantasy XIV does not do it.

Quest lines that should be one quest in reality

The typical: we have tons of new quests lie. Well that's cool. Provided there aren't quests like: go talk to this guy right next to me. The flight path introduction quest goes like this. 1. go to the flight master. 2. fly to the capital and talk to the merchant. 3. go to the capital flight master. 4. talk to the original quest giver. Four quests that should be one.

Dungeon and raid difficulties

Pitchfork time, I know. But seriously. Do we need four difficulties for dungeons and raids? Nah. That's just the illusion of having more content, when in fact we don't. Having normal and mythic + is more than enough for one dungeon. When Final Fantasy XIV does a hard mode of a dungeon it is continues the story of the regular one and uses a different layout, with new bosses. Like old and new deadmines. Also, ditch LFR ASAP. I am perfectly fine with raiding being too difficult for me. No need to dumb it down to a level where you can kill Archimonde at level 100 without paying attention to what you are doing. Raids aren't meant to be facerolled.

Gimmicks that are only relevant for one expansion

A no brainer really. Garrisons are only used between 90 and 100. We already know that artifact weapons won't stick around after 110. I know nothing can be done retroactively, but I really really really hope that the next expansion won't bring a new system that is only used for 10 levels out of 120.

Random drop legendaries

Nope. Bad idea. Nothing legendary about them now. Let's go back to insanely long difficult questlines.

So basically take the RPG stuff out of an RPG.

Go play a different game, your ideas are the kind of streamlining that has already gutted WoW's spirit.

[Deleted]

The OP mentions flight paths, and this is another great example. There's no player involvement in using one, and in fact I still use them most of the time simply because I can alt-tab out. More interesting would be to make these things have some sort of involvement, for example, having to deal with weather elements in some fashion, or enemies trying to dismount you.

That's also a possibility. The point is to do SOMETHING with flight paths. Like I mentioned in the OP that I am sure only about a half of the posters actually read, the solution is either remove or rework. The reason why I mostly give examples for simpler solutions because it probably has a better chance of happening. Blizzard seems to be gradually simplifying the game, wether we like it or not.

So basically take the RPG stuff out of an RPG.

It's mostly taken out already. There are just fragments left. Like the class trainers that are still called class trainers, but don't train anyone. It's time to make a choice. Either remove the fragments as well, or put back the old systems.

[Mikehuntz]

You should be left behind when 8.0 comes out. The world will appreciate your noble sacrifice for us all to live better lives. You truly will be the savior of WoW.

[thunterman]

I tried to get into FFXIV, seems a decent game, but.. I couldn't help but notice the GCD. If I recall it was 2.5 - 3 seconds ish, which just made combat feel overwhelmingly slow. I got bored of combat in general after about 10 minutes. If not for that, I'd imagine I would still be playing it now.

[Hilaw]

I agree on most of things, but some of those ideas are just horrible.

[kaintk]

fisrt thing : the ap grinding and any korean style grinding that legion have, i want my WoW to go back a more friendly alt leveling , a lot of people like myself have been left on the side because of the focus being too much on one character with all that grinding you have to do

and for damn god... if leg system go back i hope they will put legendary token

[Sariengrey]

AP needs to be gone, ruined Wow for me, endless grind. WQ need to be gone, the are just daily quests and very ,very repetitive. Mythic + dungeons need to be gone. Like I want to spend 2 years doing the same dungeons over an over? - just "harder" lmao. Random legendaries need to be gone. Anything that has turned Wow into Diablo needs to be gone. Legion is the worst xpac blizz has ever done imo...... and some were not that great so that says a lot from me. Grind and Paragon stuff belongs in Diablo . I unsubbed for the first time in 13 years, 6 weeks ago and I will not be returning to WoW until these"systems" are gone, if they are here to stay then I am gone for good, plenty of other games to play.

Wow has lost its way in Legion , terribly so..........