2 explosions in Manchester Arena - CONFIRMED Fatalities.

[KyleEverett]

This is really not the thread for discussing Islam itself. Can we rather focus on the attack and the victims rather than this pointless fight that won't solve anything?

[Deleted]

The first 2, okay since it's not a choice. The third one, yeah, sure, to some extent. But the 4th one? No, that's a choice.

The nature of the beast is how culturally rooted things become through education. Religion is not a choice to me in the same manner than choosing the color of a headscarf.

[Freighter]

The nature of the beast is how culturally rooted things become through education. Religion is not a choice to me in the same manner than choosing the color of a headscarf.

You're free to believe in anything you like. If you do not make that choice, you've still made a choice to stick with what you believe. I was raised in a christian home, I'm not christian.

[Lokryn]

Uganda was Christian and wasn't SUPER FUNDAMENTAL christian... American fundamentalists made their brand of Christianity more popular in Uganda which has led to the total shit show we have now there.

Well, I can't accurately discount your claim without doing some research into Uganda but I still find it hard to believe that American fundamentalists are to blame. I'm not sure I know what you mean by "SUPER FUNDAMENTAL" anyway. The pentacostal? The amish? Who are these "Fundamentalists" that are advocating for the killing of gays? Certainly none in modern times that I've seen.

[Dhrizzle]

The first 2, okay since it's not a choice. The third one, yeah, sure, to some extent. But the 4th one? No, that's a choice.

Someone hating on me because of my religion is really not the same as someone hating on me because of race, ethnicity or nationality.

What has choice got to do with it? "Racism" is used to define prejudice against people because of some aspect of their racial/national/cultural identity and religion is part of that.

[Deletedaccount1]

This is really not the thread for discussing Islam itself. Can we rather focus on the attack and the victims rather than this pointless fight that won't solve anything?

How will talking about anything related to this on a world of warcraft fansite solve anything?

[Shinra1]

Salman Abedi, 22 years old. Damn 22 years old ..

What's not so shocking though is that he was born here. This idea that terrorists are coming from abroad to blow people up is false. And as a result people shouldn't blame a single religion for this person's actions.

[Freighter]

What has choice got to do with it? "Racism" is used to define prejudice against people because of some aspect of their racial/national/cultural identity and religion is part of that.

Can't find anything which includes cultural identity and religion. Those two things would fall under bigotry or xenophobia, not racism.

If someone started hating on me because of my religion I wouldn't call them racist.

[Deleted]

"Racism" as a term has expanded to include prejudice against people for reasons including race, ethnicity, nationality and religion.

That's excessively matter-of-facty.
Only a handful of drones do so. The intersect with religion stems from the wrong idea that Muslims are brown of whatevs. Institutionalizing religions discrimination as racism is only reinforcing harmful stereotypes about my culture and religion.

[Deleted]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ariana-g...di-isis-claim/

LONDON -- Police on Tuesday identified the man who blew himself up the previous night at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, England, as 22-year-old Salman Abedi. CBS News confirmed Abedi was known to British authorities prior to the attack.

In a generic statement posted online, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) claimed responsibility for Abedi's suicide bomb attack, which left 22 people dead, including children, at one of the entrances to the Manchester Arena.


Officials said one man was arrested Tuesday in southern Manchester in connection with the attack, and urged people to avoid the center of the city as raids continued at addresses around the city.

Police and British Prime Minister Theresa May made it clear the focus of the investigation was to determine whether the bomber "was acting alone, or was part of a wider group."

ISIS issued its claim of responsibility in a brief, generic statement that did not identify the bomber and appeared to get some of the facts of the attack wrong. It claimed a "caliphate soldier managed to place a number of devices among a gathering of crusaders in Manchester, and detonated them."

And there can be no doubt now, this was an attack by an Islamic extremist.

I believe it's time that many of you finally face the fact that political Islam is a threat to the west. We cannot abide by these atrocities. We cannot stand by an proclaim that Islam is purely peaceful when Islamism is supported by a majority of Muslims. Imagine if today Christian's started calling for theorcracies in place of Democratic governments? Even worse, imagine if they started conducting terrorist attacks in order to bring their theocracy to realty. Now Imagine the backlash by young liberals.

It's time that liberals come to terms with reality and raise their voices against theocratic ideologies, no matter the religion. This is a matter of life and death. We cannot change the minds of Islamists if we tell them all that they're right, and the big bad right is just discriminating against them. That the west is just full of a bunch of racists. Their ideology is dangerous to freedom and democracy world wide, and it must be stomped out...

[Gimlix]

What's not so shocking though is that he was born here. This idea that terrorists are coming from abroad to blow people up is false. And as a result people shouldn't blame a single religion for this person's actions.

Uhm religion is still a big deal with it. Even if he was born here.
Tbh they should just quit the religions all togheter. It only leads to hate and anger.

[Deleted]

You're free to believe in anything you like. If you do not make that choice, you've still made a choice to stick with what you believe. I was raised in a christian home, I'm not christian.

I don't claim that you can't change and update your beliefs. Many people become atheists, and many convert to others. But it's not a choice in the manner you're exposing: sometimes it's the consequence of many other choices in life, some others is an inescapable realization.

[Flaks]

Malaysia has other problems because of radical Islam. Notably the Bhumiputra majority who set laws against non-Muslim and non-indigenous citizens that prevents them from getting high paying jobs or educations. This is on top of archaic social policies and an Islamic legal system. Essentially a "moderate" Muslim country that has openly created a non-Muslim underclass.

- - - Updated - - -

I used to work in Malaysia and I lived there as a child.

America has other problems because of radical ideologies. Namely going out to other countries annually and murdering thousands to millions of innocents in the past 2 decades and doing this without more than a 10 year hiatus for the past century.

If we're calling a spade a spade then there's really no bigger terrorist in the world than the American military. It also just so happens to directly result in terrorism from the side they're terrorizing.

You can give a dog a bad name and hang him. But you need to realize where the problems stem from and address those eventually.

[Gimlix]

And there can be no doubt now, this was an attack by an Islamic extremist.

I believe it's time that many of you finally face the fact that political Islam is a threat to the west. We cannot abide by these atrocities. We cannot stand by an proclaim that Islam is purely peaceful when Islamism is supported by a majority of Muslims. Imagine if today Christian's started calling for theorcracies in place of Democratic governments? Even worse, imagine if they started conducting terrorist attacks in order to bring their theocracy to realty. Now Imagine the backlash by young liberals.

It's time that liberals come to terms with reality and raise their voices against theocratic ideologies, no matter the religion. This is a matter of life and death. We cannot change the minds of Islamists if we tell them all that they're right, and the big bad right is just discriminating against them. Their ideology is dangerous to freedom and democracy world wide, and it must be stomped out.

Don't hate islam to much on these forums, you will get yourself banned. Because opinion about them is very dangerous here. Unless it's a positive one.

[Toogoodman]

The types of coutnries terrorists are in are usually poor and torn apart, the countries themselves are that way because of economics. Radical African Christian countries are also poor and suffer the same issues.

Malaysia is less poor you don't hear about all these issues happening in fucking Malaysia.

Hence the brain washing, the leaders of groups like ISIS know that people, adhering to their religious beliefs, and being in a country, as you stated as being war torn, are easy to manipulate and brain wash. This isnt always the case though.. you have people fleeing from western countries to join terrorist groups, you also have people from rich Arab nations doing the same. Saudi/UAE/Pakistan etc... these countries all feed people into the ISIS machine, and people from those countries (the US included) arent poor, its not cheap to fly across the world.

The problem is people twisting religious beliefs, along with very impressionable people being obviously easy to manipulate. Most of the hardcore radical countries in Africa are actually Muslim extremist groups, i.e. Somali Pirates & Boko Haram to name a couple, but i agree that there are some bad christian factions over there. However, saying that a very small and select group in a small section of the world is the same as a global pandemic is ignorant.

[Freighter]

I don't claim that you can't change and update your beliefs. Many people become atheists, and many convert to others. But it's not a choice in the manner you're exposing: sometimes it's the consequence of many other choices in life, some others is an inescapable realization.

It really is a choice. If you decide to stay with the religion, that's still a choice. If you leave it, that's a choice.

[Sky High]

And there can be no doubt now, this was an attack by an Islamic extremist.

I believe it's time that many of you finally face the fact that political Islam is a threat to the west. We cannot abide by these atrocities. We cannot stand by an proclaim that Islam is purely peaceful when Islamism is supported by a majority of Muslims. Imagine if today Christian's started calling for theorcracies in place of Democratic governments? Even worse, imagine if they started conducting terrorist attacks in order to bring their theocracy to realty. Now Imagine the backlash by young liberals.

It's time that liberals come to terms with reality and raise their voices against theocratic ideologies, no matter the religion. This is a matter of life and death. We cannot change the minds of Islamists if we tell them all that they're right, and the big bad right is just discriminating against them. Their ideology is dangerous to freedom and democracy world wide, and it must be stomped out.

step one is to stop giving them weapons they then use to wage war on each other which only makes more refugees. but oddly enough that's not a "liberal" problem is it?

[PC2]

America has other problems because of radical ideologies. Namely going out to other countries annually and murdering thousands to millions of innocents in the past 2 decades.

If we're calling a spade a spade then there's really no bigger terrorist in the world than the American military. It also just so happens to directly result in terrorism from the side they're terrorizing.

You can give a dog a bad name and hang him. But you need to realize where the problems stem from and address those eventually.

The difference in that case is that it's understood that free speech is good and it's okay to criticize the government and military. With Islam people try to silence debate with meaningless labels like "Islamophobe".

[Deleted]

I will truly never understand this perspective, that people wouldn't commit terrorism if they had a job (this makes me laugh). This really kills me, saying that someone being in less favorable conditions in another country is why they decided to bomb people on the other side of the planet? Love the lefts mission of pushing "global socialism" by trying to "point this out". Maybe we should just do what Russia did from early 1900s to the end of WW2, worked great for them right? would love me a political prisons, oops i mean "work out camp!".

You want to do somthing meaningful and have companionship In your life. Decent work, GF/Wife/family. Peopel who have somthing to live for do not blow themself up.

Now if you are at the bottom of the social scale = long time unemployed or minimum salary work, its harder to attract a GF.

Have you ever heard of a suicide bomber in the west who left a desperate GF/Wife who cant undertand way he did it? No they are all singel men without real hope for a better life, hence they put ther fate in the religion for a better life and get a possibility of revenge on society who they blame for there misfortune.

[PickleballAce]

Yes, this has everything to do with NATO incursions in the Middle East, and nothing to do with an overprotective and ethnocentric European culture that isn't interested in allowing anyone that "doesn't look the part" to even have a chance at belonging.

"You aren't English and you will never be English."

"You aren't French and you will never be French."

"You aren't German and you will never be German."

Then you wonder why they start identifying with the places their parents came from, and start acting accordingly.