A Question For Trump Supporters. Is Everyone Lying?

[Aracs]

Also I can get the point that everyone talking about Russia's involvement into US elections, because of whatever thing (most of them are described at the Starter post). But no-one seems to open eyes and see that Trump favours Saudis and Israel (for free? I don't think so, just $100 bln. deal he got last week from them). And making Iran responsible for 9/11 and accusing them in terrorism are the most stupid things which you can imagine.

[LaserSharkDFB]

Also I can get the point that everyone talking about Russia's involvement into US elections, because of whatever thing (most of them are described at the Starter post). But no-one seems to open eyes and see that Trump favours Saudis and Israel (for free? I don't think so, just $100 bln. deal he got last week from them). And making Iran responsible for 9/11 and accusing them in terrorism are the most stupid things which you can imagine.

I think plenty of people have commented on that (though I don't think anyone says they were responsible for 9/11? Might have missed that). It's just that Russia's involvement in the elections and possible collusion with the Trump campaign is a lot more immediate and newsworthy.

[Aracs]

And that's from someone who voted for Bernie in the primary.

Good to know. Thanks for your responses.
Why I'm asking about that? Because situation in US looks for me pretty much the same as SU in 1985, just after Gorbachev's elections. The problem is elite crisis and if it will be modulated also by economy crisis then US may also fall apart. And that will cause a huge wave of depression, destruction and despair around the planet. I want to believe that US citizens realizes their responsibility for the whole world as it is.

I think plenty of people have commented on that (though I don't think anyone says they were responsible for 9/11? Might have missed that). It's just that Russia's involvement in the elections and possible collusion with the Trump campaign is a lot more immediate and newsworthy.

Like I really don't know what to say about that. Because real actions he takes are against Russia and in favour of SA, Israel and South Korea (not a russian friends). I mean one should use "Occam's Razor" to understand real world: "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck". From that pov it looks like he is against Russia. So the whole point of this thread is just some conspiracy theory and nothing more.

[Acidbaron]

Comparing the state of some american citizens to that of former sovjet is rather dishonest and disrespectful even for the former sovjet states and their population which suffered under it.

[Lenonis]

Because situation in US looks for me pretty much the same as SU in 1985, just after Gorbachev's elections. The problem is elite crisis and if it will be modulated also by economy crisis then US may also fall apart.

Eh...I don't think we're there. Yes there is a deep political divide, but there are a lot of ways things can moderate before a full blown crisis that ripples across the globe. One of the things that is perhaps a good thing is that the political turmoil has also resulted in political gridlock so little actually gets done. Just a lot of huff and puff going on but little legislation to actually change things.[/QUOTE]

[Aracs]

One of the things that is perhaps a good thing is that the political turmoil has also resulted in political gridlock so little actually gets done. Just a lot of huff and puff going on but little legislation to actually change things.

I'm not so sure about considering this as a good thing. Because something going wrong with a whole world economy as an example WTO, UN even EU are not working as intended anymore, and if system will continue to decay we might appear even in an era of new feudalism. To solve the problem we need someone who can responsibly make strong decisions.

[LaserSharkDFB]

Like I really don't know what to say about that. Because real actions he takes are against Russia and in favour of SA, Israel and South Korea (not a russian friends). I mean one should use "Occam's Razor" to understand real world: "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck". From that pov it looks like he is against Russia. So the whole point of this thread is just some conspiracy theory and nothing more.

Okay. What actions has Trump actually taken against Russia?

[Aracs]

Okay. What actions has Trump actually taken against Russia?

Ehmm, that rocket attack in Syria (actually also illegal by any international laws and agreements).
Removed from administration several persons who was against confrontation with Russia. I think now only Tillerson remains on his place.
Conflict with diplomatic property near NY still not solved (the one which Obama created on the last days).
Last days on NATO summit his speech was pretty anti-russian.

[Lenonis]

I'm not so sure about considering this as a good thing. Because something going wrong with a whole world economy as an example WTO, UN even EU are not working as intended anymore, and if system will continue to decay we might appear even in an era of new feudalism. To solve the problem we need someone who can responsibly make strong decisions.

Yes, that definitely can be a double edged sword.

[LaserSharkDFB]

Ehmm, that rocket attack in Syria (actually also illegal by any international laws and agreements).
Removed from administration several persons who was against confrontation with Russia. I think now only Tillerson remains on his place.
Conflict with diplomatic property near NY still not solved (the one which Obama created on the last days).
Last days on NATO summit his speech was pretty anti-russian.

Russia was warned before the attack began, and the attack was ultimately useless. And it was an attack on Syria, not Russia.
Removing people with ties with Russia from his administration does not count as something done against Russia. It counts as covering his own ass. And reports say Trump still wants Flynn back on the team.
I'm not sure what the 'diplomatic property' thing is, but not resolving an issue doesn't count as an action taken against Russia. It counts as 'not doing anything'.
And as far as the NATO speech goes, as I understand it he said a lot of things that made the NATO alliance seem less solid than it used to be, something that Putin would very much like to see.

Trump has taken no actions against Russia. None. He's barely taken any actions involving America. He's insulted our allies in Europe, as well as our neighbors to the north and south, and has repeatedly shown admiration for Putin. If his team hadn't got busted talking to the Russians about lifting sanctions, he probably would've done that as soon as he took office. I don't think Putin thought Trump was really going to win, and was banking on Clinton being weakened by manufactured scandals, but Trump sure is dancing to his tune.

[Acidbaron]

Ehmm, that rocket attack in Syria (actually also illegal by any international laws and agreements).
Removed from administration several persons who was against confrontation with Russia. I think now only Tillerson remains on his place.
Conflict with diplomatic property near NY still not solved (the one which Obama created on the last days).
Last days on NATO summit his speech was pretty anti-russian.

That rocket attack where he warned Russia to move their planes and barely did any damage there.

Those people he supposedly removed (what he didn't) were actually people he was warned for from the beginning. The question can be raised if he actually would have done anything if it didn't became public knowledge.

He's too inconsistent to even hold him to his own words as he turns more often than the direction of the wind.

[Aracs]

That rocket attack where he warned Russia to move their planes and barely did any damage there.

Those people he supposedly removed (what he didn't) were actually people he was warned for from the beginning. The question can be raised if he actually would have done anything if it didn't became public knowledge.

He's too inconsistent to even hold him to his own words as he turns more often than the direction of the wind.

Russia was warned before the attack began, and the attack was ultimately useless. And it was an attack on Syria, not Russia.
Removing people with ties with Russia from his administration does not count as something done against Russia. It counts as covering his own ass. And reports say Trump still wants Flynn back on the team.
I'm not sure what the 'diplomatic property' thing is, but not resolving an issue doesn't count as an action taken against Russia. It counts as 'not doing anything'.
And as far as the NATO speech goes, as I understand it he said a lot of things that made the NATO alliance seem less solid than it used to be, something that Putin would very much like to see.

Trump has taken no actions against Russia. None. He's barely taken any actions involving America. He's insulted our allies in Europe, as well as our neighbors to the north and south, and has repeatedly shown admiration for Putin. If his team hadn't got busted talking to the Russians about lifting sanctions, he probably would've done that as soon as he took office. I don't think Putin thought Trump was really going to win, and was banking on Clinton being weakened by manufactured scandals, but Trump sure is dancing to his tune.

Guys we just should be realists, what do you expect him to do? Bomb airbase with russian helicopters residing it? It is a declaration of war, in that case nuclear f!@#ing WAR! What else he can do, more economical sanctions? They will just be against US economy and good for China, so he can't do that.
The only thing I could imagine is interfere into russian elections (as I suggested earlier) next spring. But official campaign not started yet.

[Antius]

The liberal media is trying to cry foul as loudly as they can to get Trump shitcanned. If he is impeached they'll come after the next Republican we stick in the white house. It's about Trump, but it's reeeeaaally about the Democrats losing ground.

Trump was pretty much just a slap in the face and a big Fuck You to the liberal dems from the majority of the US that's tired of the liberal bullshit.The consolation prize was to see Hillary denied the presidency. Just my 2 cents.

[jakeic]

The liberal media is trying to cry foul as loudly as they can to get Trump shitcanned. If he is impeached they'll come after the next Republican we stick in the white house. It's about Trump, but it's reeeeaaally about the Democrats losing ground.

Trump was pretty much just a slap in the face and a big Fuck You to the liberal dems from the majority of the US that's tired of the liberal bullshit.The consolation prize was to see Hillary denied the presidency. Just my 2 cents.

That's some first rate paranoia you're flexing there, with some victim complex to boot.

[Lenonis]

from the majority of the US that's tired of the liberal bullshit.

Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million votes.

[Acidbaron]

Guys we just should be realists, what do you expect him to do? Bomb airbase with russian helicopters residing it? It is a declaration of war, in that case nuclear f!@#ing WAR! What else he can do, more economical sanctions? They will just be against US economy and good for China, so he can't do that.
The only thing I could imagine is interfere into russian elections (as I suggested earlier) next spring. But official campaign not started yet.

It is you who made the case that he did oppose Russia, he barely did. And the Rocket attack was not aimed at Russia but at Assad, he even said this literally you can dig up the press releases around it if you doubt this or even the video where he spoke about the attack.

So far all trump has done has played out in favor of Russia, even his stance of Europe and the NATO are things Russia wants to see happen.

[Incredibale]

This is a media that did near non-existent critical reporting on the Obama administration and acted more like its propaganda arm than anything.

They wouldn't even disclose the fact that Obama is the son and protoge of Frank Marshall Davis, a card-carrying communist and pornographer, who Obama's mom posed nude for.

--SNIP--
--SNIP--

Don't post conspiracy theories

[LaserSharkDFB]

Guys we just should be realists, what do you expect him to do? Bomb airbase with russian helicopters residing it? It is a declaration of war, in that case nuclear f!@#ing WAR! What else he can do, more economical sanctions? They will just be against US economy and good for China, so he can't do that.
The only thing I could imagine is interfere into russian elections (as I suggested earlier) next spring. But official campaign not started yet.

Uh... huh. I think you need to calm down a bit here. There is a lot that Trump could do against Russia without jumping to the literal nuclear option. I mean, just at a bare minimum, he could not invite the Russian ambassador into the Oval Office and tell them Israeli secrets. I mean, the fuck was that about?s

[Acidbaron]

This is a media that did near non-existent critical reporting on the Obama administration and acted more like its propaganda arm than anything.

They wouldn't even disclose the fact that Obama is the son and protoge of Frank Marshall Davis, a card-carrying communist and pornographer, who Obama's mom posed nude for.


https://youtu.be/oxQHiGgFQ2A?t=1005
https://youtu.be/oxQHiGgFQ2A?t=1292

Conspiracy theories are not allowed on this forum, there's a certain reddit for this kind of nonsense. And Obama received plenty of criticism, for the right side he was too left and for the left side he was too right, even internationally he obtained plenty of criticism.

However Obama did not seek out controversy every minute, he did not feel the need to taunt or have outbursts on his twitter account.

Good to see that the fear of the reds is still present among some americans, it makes your kind even easier to identity when you wear a label so proudly.

[Incredibale]

Conspiracy theories are not allowed on this forum, there's a certain reddit for this kind of nonsense. And Obama received plenty of criticism, for the right side he was too left and for the left side he was too right, even internationally he obtained plenty of criticism.

However Obama did not seek out controversy every minute, he did not feel the need to taunt or have outbursts on his twitter account.

Good to see that the fear of the reds is still present among some americans, it makes your kind even easier to identity when you wear a label so proudly.

Conspiracy theories are allowed depending on their political bent. So, whatever. You know I don't care about that.

It's not my fault you're too profoundly ignorant to care about the truth, in any case.