How does Making Europe Increase their Defense Spending Help Russia?

[Felya]

So what happens when you encourage it?

If you encouraged it or even ignored it post WW1, there would have been no Hitler.

[Deleted]

There's an expected amount of your budget you need to spend on defense to be in NATO. If the 2% is unreasonable, then that's much bigger discussions, but everybody knew this when they agreed to it. Loads of countries aren't paying it so the countries that ARE are having to pick up the slack.

This seems a no brainer to me. All the backlash is like getting angry in a bar because the bartender refuses to give you another drink because you haven't paid for any of your other drinks yet.

If you want a service, and you've agreed a price for it, you pay for it.

2% is a recent change and is not required until 2024.
Your example would be more fitting if the bartender keeps giving bills, when he knows pay time is later in the evening.

[Deleted]

The main reason why Germany reduced defense spending was because it was surrounded by friends. You don't actually need military if the chances of invasion from Poland, The Netherlands, Austria... or *chuckles* France are zero. Two main reasons: The border is open anyway, go ahead and "invade" us. Second, we are at peace and on friendly terms with all of them.

Yeah, because the Russians couldn't invade Germany by barreling through Eastern Europe.

The reason why most European countries do not spend more on their defense is simple. They think the US would stop any incursion.
They think that US will and should spend all of it's treasure and blood on their countries. They are taking advantage of America, in other words. This is one of the few policies that I agree with Trump on. Everyone must pay their fair share, and they must stop taking advantage of the goodwill of the American people.

[Deleted]

If you encouraged it or even ignored it post WW1, there would have been no Hitler.

I think you are taking my shitposting a little too literally.

[Noradin]

Yeah, because the Russians couldn't invade Germany by barreling through Eastern Europe.

The reason why most European countries do not spend more on their defense is simple. They think the US would stop any incursion.
They think that US will and should spend all of it's treasure and blood on their countries. They are taking advantage of America, in other words. This is one of the few policies that I agree with Trump on. Everyone must pay their fair share, and they must stop taking advantage of the goodwill of the American people.

You severally underestimate the amount of military power European countries concentrate in Europe and severally overestimate the amount of military power the US has free to defend Europe.
The USA spend so much on their military because they use it to bully others elsewhere, not to defend their allies.

[Azadina]

Germany built their military for WW2 while heavily sanctioned to not have a standing army.

Well, technically they were allowed to have an army, but it was limited to 100k men, which back then wasn't worth anything really.

[Slant]

That's bizarre, Russia has been the threat since what? 1945?

Russia occupied Poland and half of Germany from 1945 to 1990 or so?

The border to Russia isn't open. Russia isn't part of Schengen, and most likely never will be.

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Yeah, because the Russians couldn't invade Germany by barreling through Eastern Europe.

The reason why most European countries do not spend more on their defense is simple. They think the US would stop any incursion.
They think that US will and should spend all of it's treasure and blood on their countries. They are taking advantage of America, in other words. This is one of the few policies that I agree with Trump on. Everyone must pay their fair share, and they must stop taking advantage of the goodwill of the American people.

And then what? Assume you're right, Russia makes it through the Eastern Nations. What do you think the Reaction would be in the West? Mighty big gamble, cos if Western Europe ramped up defense production, it's industries would outperform Russia on a scale that hasn't been seen since WW2. And this time it wouldn't be one nation striking into Russia, it would be the entire EU and NATO. After they'd be finished with Russia, you wouldn't find anything left that could be called Russia.

[Deleted]

I am seriously confused by people who keep saying that Trump's push for European countries to increase defense spending helps Russia. Germany has consistently reduced its force over the last twenty years probably because "it's fine, US got us we will just have free health care and let America deal with defense spending".

I would think that if every country in Europe met its initial goal of two % and try to rebuild their military and increase spending it would create a stronger detterance and stronger Europe. Am I wrong? The only critique is that "Europe's feelings are hurt and Trump was a bit too strong in his demands". Of course Germany/France isn't going to like being told to pick up the tab. But it is a harsh reality they need to accept.

A Europe less reliant on the US will be less likely to walk in lockstep with it.
It could herald a shift from the current US-EU partnership, into a EU-Russia one.
But that's not something that will happen in anything but decades.

[Anon56]

Europe will never increase their NATO spending, deal with it.

If you're not happy you can just leave NATO, leave your European bases behind, your missile "defense" system and say good bye to the Mediterranean. Let's see who will lose more then.

But don't worry, your Emperor in chief were already told by your generals to don't make a fuss about it, because they know they need access to Europe to wage your wars in the middle east.

[Kallisto]

Yeah, because the Russians couldn't invade Germany by barreling through Eastern Europe.

Logistical nightmare for Russia who would be spotted by American and European satellites massing their army and beginning their push. As this happens UK, France, Germany would also build up and park the military in Poland, Romania, Baltic states. Even without the US the European militaries have better training, weaponry and spending on defense. Russia would have two choices. Back down or fight a war it would lose.

Russian equipment is 20-30 years out of date by NATO standards. It's funding was slashed earlier this year by 25%, their economy relies on europe. It's not going to win any confrontation with Europe fighting it. Even at current spending of the European countries on their militaries.

While both had their capitals in Moscow. Russia is NOT the USSR. Not in its government, not in its make up and certainly not even close in their military power.

[Deleted]

NATO's defefending own members is kinda vague, cba to look for it right now, but formal obligation is not military but 'to each of own coutry abilities', which can be jsut aswell flying over dropping leaflets as pre-WW2 countreis did to help invaded Poland, despite formal defense agreements. Or some shit like that, idk.

NATO is more about allowing USA alone to put their own bases in other countries, covered in pretty formal phrases.