groups chain pulling and keeping you out of stealth

[Djanco]

hi. i play sub rogue main spec and i'm 908 ilvl. every single day it seems like whenever i join a random heroic or a mythic+ or an invasion scenario i have massive problems with other players keeping you in combat constantly and if i ask them to let me get stealth i am ignored and 9 times out of 10 i'm the only person in the group doing any meaningful damage.

yesterday i joined an invasion scenario i was the only geared player, so i basically stealthed through the entire thing and did the objectives while the others just ran through everything and died, and they tried dragged it onto me and i ran away from them and they get mad and booted me for not saving them.

then last night i joined a mythic+ carry group to do my court of stars 12 and the tank pulled all the trash and the first boss together, got me snared and i died to the boss ability. then from that point on their healer refused to heal me and i would just keep dying to grievous wound. so after about 4 more deaths i stayed dead and they cleared the rest of the dungeon to the last boss then kicked me from the group right before the last boss.

does this sort of thing happen to any other rogues or just me? we can deal a shitload of damage if the group just lets me get stealth between pulls. it makes the whole run faster and cleaner too. do people just not realize we need to get stealthed to be most effective or do they just not care? could this be contributing to the misconception that rogues are bad? what are your thoughts?

[ymirsson]

My thought?
Join a guild, ignore all the random bads.

[GhostSkull]

I think you point to a very real problem, but it's very common practice to chain pull as fast as possible, for healers to starve dps, AND to not care about / take joy in leaving people behind. I haven't seriously played my rogue since Wrath and I shadow-stepped a boss only to find out that there was nothing but empty space behind him.

As to a solution, is there a more rugged or fast moving build you make for randoms? It's probably better to be able to keep moving and do okay damage than to lead the meters.

[Djanco]

i mean, i have all the other legendaries to use but without the mantle equipped im not going to break 800k in any situation (boss or aoe) but if i can't stealth i might as well not even equip it. it's just frustrating as all hell to finally get it then it just makes your life infinitely more frustrating in an effort to actually use it. for mythic+ i use bear tartare (short sprint when you kill an enemy) every time. i find even with sprint/shadowstep/ss telport i just can't keep up without it, but even then they aren't going to let you rebuff it when you eventually die. it obviously isnt a problem running with my guild but sometimes you just have to pug. :/

[Logwyn]

Doesn't http://www.wowhead.com/spell=1856/vanish#comments work still?

[Djanco]

Doesn't http://www.wowhead.com/spell=1856/vanish#comments work still?

obviously you don't play rogue. vanish is a dps cooldown with the mantle you open from stealth then use vanish to refresh the buff after the opener buff ends. you don't want to open with vanish i cannot emphasize how big of a dps loss this is. it obviously isnt such a huge deal in heroics and random bullshit but in a mythic+ 10 or higher it is sort of a huge deal, especially on tyrannical or fortified, or any time the monsters have a large amount of hp and aren't going to die in 30 seconds.

[Logwyn]

obviously you don't play rogue. vanish is a dps cooldown with the mantle you open from stealth then use vanish to refresh the buff after the opener buff ends. you don't want to open with vanish i cannot emphasize how big of a dps loss this is. it obviously isnt such a huge deal in heroics and random bullshit but in a mythic+ 10 or higher it is sort of a huge deal, especially on tyrannical or fortified, or any time the monsters have a large amount of hp and aren't going to die in 30 seconds.

If the group is doing so very well with your dps not at max and they don't seem to care whats the issue then? The instance is getting cleared and in a timely manner? Just your "numbers" aren't were you like them to be?

Does it really matter if you are number 1-2-3 on some dps meter at the end of a 5man?

[Djanco]

you obviously don't play rogue and you didn't read a thing i said. your attitude towards this is the exact thing i am trying to bring to light. if im in a guild group, i get stealth, everyone does big damage, no problem, gravy. i join a pug, i'm the only player dealing any damage and they keep me in combat. so the entire thing takes an eternity and i could do more damage and it would be faster if they didn't chain pull. what is so hard to understand about this? if you don't have anything constructive to contribute to the discussion then please don't post. /ignored.

[TripleZero]

you obviously don't play rogue or read a thing i said. if you don't have anything constructive to contribute to the discussion then please don't post. /ignored.

Youre quite rude, aren't you?

Why are you complaining about faceroll content where your dps doesnt matter ? Invasion scenarios ?? Random heroics ???

No one will care about you being able to stealth or not when youre doing casual content. Do high mythic+ with proper people and maybe tell your tank in a friendly manner to give you a second between pulls to stealth again.

If it frustrates you too much during casual content then switch spec.

[Cyanix]

you obviously don't play rogue and you didn't read a thing i said. your attitude towards this is the exact thing i am trying to bring to light. if im in a guild group, i get stealth, everyone does big damage, no problem, gravy. i join a pug, i'm the only player dealing any damage and they keep me in combat. so the entire thing takes an eternity and i could do more damage and it would be faster if they didn't chain pull. what is so hard to understand about this? if you don't have anything constructive to contribute to the discussion then please don't post. /ignored.

Welcome to WoW 2017, where big packs/ aoe pulls are the norm.

It is indeed irritating when tanks chain pull. Sometimes even dying because they outLOS healers.

[Deleted]

then last night i joined a mythic+ carry group to do my court of stars 12 and the tank pulled all the trash and the first boss together, got me snared and i died to the boss ability. then from that point on their healer refused to heal me and i would just keep dying to grievous wound. so after about 4 more deaths i stayed dead and they cleared the rest of the dungeon to the last boss then kicked me from the group right before the last boss

You just got the right punishment.

[shaunika123]

If the group is doing so very well with your dps not at max and they don't seem to care whats the issue then? The instance is getting cleared and in a timely manner? Just your "numbers" aren't were you like them to be?

Does it really matter if you are number 1-2-3 on some dps meter at the end of a 5man?

how else are you gonna slam your dick at the end of the run and link you being #1 in overall?

[Djanco]

You just got the right punishment.

for what? staying dead after they refused to heal me? it was a carry group. most players afk as soon as the timer starts. i don't need a carry i joined because they had a tank and healer and i needed my +10 for the week. i was doing the dungeon with them and they let me die ON PURPOSE repeatedly. so i stayed dead. i figured since i wasn't being healed they wanted me to stay back because some groups are like that. some groups invite you and don't care what you do after you put the key in, but they kicked me and it was my key. what would you have done, just keep releasing until your gear turns red?

[Cyanix]

Rogues are fine in mythic+

Learn to re-stealth in combat.

[Nekroman]

Wait you play sub. Dont you even have a second vanish through sprint with flickering shadows or some such? Youre a rogue: Improvise. If you cant get tanks to let you stealth either swap shoulders for ring

[Asiel]

You have two other completely viable specs in 5mans. Play one of those since they aren't as heavily reliant on stealth.

If you ONLY play dub then that's your own fault and should expect groups to chain pull.

[Bryntrollian]

You can't play the tedious build in most random groups.

[RobertoCarlos]

You think its bad trying just to restealth with an annoying group that pulls the next mob without actually killing the current pack of mobs try playing a healer when you never get a chance to even start drinking for mana when all it takes is a 2sec delay between a pull so you can drop combat

- - - Updated - - -

You have two other completely viable specs in 5mans. Play one of those since they aren't as heavily reliant on stealth.

If you ONLY play dub then that's your own fault and should expect groups to chain pull.

- Has a concern about how to improve his current spec/build

- goes on forum

- Gets told to play another build.

- Thanks!

- - - Updated - - -

All you can really do is ask the tank/the random dps "helping" with pulls to slow it down a tad between pulls for combat to drop but GL. Just hope you don't get dickheads is all you can do really or play with the same people

[ScrubRouge]

This does happen to me in pugs but i actually don't mind most of the time. As long as i can stealth before the boss fights, the dmg loss from entering stealth is minimal. It also depends on your spec i guess. I mean, you are playing subt, at least you have the sprint to vanish every min. I get that it sucks that you can't start the fight in stealth and use sprint during the pull, but sometimes speed > your stealth. Which is a shame because having that 100% crit on every opener to packs feel so much fun (don't worry i feel your pain)

Most of the time I tend to find small gaps in chain pull areas where you have a moment of out of combat, so bind that stealth button to something comfortable and spam away

But yes, it totally does suck when you have the shoulders and people don't understand the value of getting to stealth.

[Dakhath]

I'm a Prot Paladin who saw this on the main page, but I can't help but wonder if you'd prefer slower runs just so you have dps in heroics/M+? That sounds like it's awful for 4 people and good for you. I pull as fast as my group can allow me to, and frankly, I don't care about your, or anyone elses dps, as long as we complete the run as fast and as sucessful as possible.