Russia threatens retaliation as Montenegro becomes 29th NATO member

[Kontinuum]

Montenegro became the 29th member of NATO on Monday and was praised by the United States for sticking to its path of joining the Western military alliance in spite of Russian pressure.

Even as Montenegrin Prime Minister Dusko Markovic was in Washington for a State Department ceremony to mark the accession, Russia warned of retaliation against Montenegro's "hostile course" and condemned the country's "anti-Russian hysteria."

After the ceremony, Markovic met U.S. Vice President Mike Pence at the White House, but not President Donald Trump, officials said.

Markovic's first encounter with Trump raised eyebrows last month, when the U.S. president pushed him aside at a NATO summit at which he demanded that allies boost defense spending to ease the burden on the United States.

Markovic told Pence that Montenegro aimed to meet the NATO target of spending 2 percent of its GDP on defense by 2024.

Russia's Foreign Ministry said Montenegro bore "full responsibility" after joining EU sanctions against Russia in 2014.

"In the light of the hostile course chosen by the Montenegrin authorities, the Russian side reserves the right to take retaliatory measures on a reciprocal basis. In politics, just as in physics, for every action there is an opposite reaction," the ministry said in a statement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN18W2WS

[Wyrt]

Why does Russia even care? Montenegro is a tiny country on the Adriatic Sea. They're no where near Russia so it's not like NATO is going to be stashing missiles and stuff there and their population is like 600k.

[Grobovshik]

Why does Russia even care? Montenegro is a tiny country on the Adriatic Sea. They're no where near Russia so it's not like NATO is going to be stashing missiles and stuff there and their population is like 600k.

NATO is threaten like enemy by our propaganda mashine. Talk-shows on our TV mock NATO and USA (and Ukraine of course) non stop, I cant see how our foreign policy could be any different.

[Berengil]

Russia will "take retaliatory measures" against a member of NATO?

Top. Kek.

Putin would have to be raving mad to give a reason for NATO to invoke Article 5 against him. And as I've said elsewhere, the oligarchs who back him only do so as long as he is useful to their interests.

[Skroe]

Why does Russia even care? Montenegro is a tiny country on the Adriatic Sea. They're no where near Russia so it's not like NATO is going to be stashing missiles and stuff there and their population is like 600k.

Montenegro has an excellent deep water port at Bar that just happened to be the last one along the Mediterranean Sea that was not in NATO lands.

Bringing them into NATO was literally one half gaining access to it for NATO, and one half boxing out Russia from having a foot-hold there. By bringing Montenegro into NATO, Russia is permanently boxed out from establishing a sea port in the Mediterranean in continental Europe.

Montenegro's contribution to NATO is entirely justified by this, and it's more than enough.



In the map above, Montenegro is colored yellow (with a black star on it). It would be blue in an updated picture. Bosnia has one small town that has access to the Adriatic, but it cannot support a military presence.

[Somewhatconcerned]

But do you think we're so innocent?

[Anon56]

Another country that will get is military funded by the US in exchange of a small port.

Still no free healthcare or education for the US, suck to be American.

[Deleted]

Sweden and Finland also should join the Nato.

And once Putin got removed from power, and russia becomes democratic again, Russia should also join the Nato.

[Wyrt]

Another country that will get is military funded by the US in exchange of a small port.

Still no free healthcare or education for the US, suck to be American.

Since when does the US fund the militaries of other countries?

[Shalcker]

Sweden and Finland also should join the Nato.

And once Putin got removed from power, and russia becomes democratic again, Russia should also join the Nato.

If you're so against autocracy, why don't you expel Turkey first?

...i mean, as far as "strategic value" goes, Russia is way ahead of Turkey, Putin or no Putin.

[Halicia]

Why does Russia even care? Montenegro is a tiny country on the Adriatic Sea.

Mediterranean access has been a goal for "Russia" for... idk how many !@#$ing years now. Especially with Putin's recent victory annexing the Crimea, he'll be looking south of the black sea for agreements, concessions, and expansion.

Montenegro joining NATO is like Putin waiting downstairs for his prom date while her dad cleans his shotgun collection.

[Skroe]

Sweden and Finland also should join the Nato.

And once Putin got removed from power, and russia becomes democratic again, Russia should also join the Nato.

Russia should never, ever join NATO.

Never trust them. Ever.

[Anon56]

And once Putin got removed from power, and russia becomes democratic again

Russia is already a democracy.

[Breccia]

Sweden and Finland also should join the Nato.

Why hasn't Finland joined? Too much commerce across the border?

[Deleted]

If you're so against autocracy, why don't you expel Turkey first?

Oh, i also am against Erdogan. I wonder how you got the idea i favor one tyrant over the other?

...i mean, as far as "strategic value" goes, Russia is way ahead of Turkey, Putin or no Putin.

No wonder, as Putin puts most of the money from the raw goods into military, while most of his people live in poverty. Thats the consequence from turning a democracy into a militaristic nationalist dictatorship.

Who need luxury if he can become cannon fodder in the army of a tyrant?

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Why hasn't Finland joined? Too much commerce across the border?

Probably because they are scared of Vladimir. While they dont have to. Vladimir is a coward.

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Russia should never, ever join NATO.

Never trust them. Ever.

I think a democratic, modern western Russia also easily could be part of the Nato.

[Skroe]

If you're so against autocracy, why don't you expel Turkey first?

...i mean, as far as "strategic value" goes, Russia is way ahead of Turkey, Putin or no Putin.

You mean with your army that can't deploy more than a few hundred miles over your border?
Or your air force that maxes out at about 30 foreign deployed air craft?
Or your antique ships?
Or your nearly non-existence space assets?
Or your rampant war-crime causing tactics?
Or your enormous, indefensible territory that makes defending the Baltics look like Beginner mode for America?
Or your decaying military industrial complex that is entirely incompatible with Western equipment?

In fact, I can't think of a single thing of value Russia would bring to NATO, objectively speaking. I'm being fair and thinking hard. I cannot think of a single thing. And interestingly enough, the primarily US/German led experience in transforming Poland's military has shown how difficult it is to transform a military of the Russian/Soviet mold to a Western style fighting force. Poland will be there after 2020. It'll have been a 20+ year process to "normalize" them.

[Breccia]

Probably because they are scared of Vladimir. While they dont have to. Vladimir is a coward.

That's bullshit. The only thing Finns are afraid of are running out of minttu and social contact.

All kidding aside, the point of joining NATO is so you don't need to be afraid of Russia. I mean, after Ukraine, isn't it objectively better to be part of a group?

[Shalcker]

You mean with your army that can't deploy more than a few hundred miles over your border?

As opposed to Turkey who deploys... where exactly, other then across the border in Syria?

Or your air force that maxes out at about 30 foreign deployed air craft?

As opposed to Turkey, who has... how many exactly?

Or your antique ships?

As opposed to Turkey...

Or your nearly non-existence space assets?

Yeah, unlike Turkish non-existent space assets...

Or your rampant war-crime causing tactics?

Haha, "those living in glass houses"...

Or your enormous, indefensible territory that makes defending the Baltics look like Beginner mode for America?

For some reason we defended it across centuries quite well. Maybe you just don't understand how it can be done since you never had enough practice.

Or your decaying military industrial complex that is entirely incompatible with Western equipment?

Meh, changes can be made, common standards created. Where there is a will, there is a way.

In fact, I can't think of a single thing of value Russia would bring to NATO, objectively speaking. I'm being fair and thinking hard. I cannot think of a single thing. And interestingly enough, the primarily US/German led experience in transforming Poland's military has shown how difficult it is to transform a military of the Russian/Soviet mold to a Western style fighting force. Poland will be there after 2020. It'll have been a 20+ year process to "normalize" them.

And... where they will be, exactly?

Can they defend Poland alone from "Russian hordes" as result?

[Skroe]

I think a democratic, modern western Russia also easily could be part of the Nato.

It wouldn't be easy. From a pure commonality standpoint (which is over half of what NATO is about), it would take at least 20 years and on the order of half a trillion dollars to integrate them into NATO. Everything Russian/Soviet would have to go pretty much, and be replaced with Western equipment.

An enormous part of NATO... perhaps the biggest part from a practical perspective... is to make sure a US F-16, cared for by a USAF crew, that takes off from Arizona and flies across the Atlantic to land in Germany can be cared for by a German crew, and armed with weapons that are there. While NATO equipment comes in different shapes and sizes, it's hugely compatable with each other. Even electronically they all "talk" the same language... something that's been a 30 year process in and of itself.

For Russia to join NATO... or any country... it would have to conform. It wouldn't be a tit-for-tat. It would forgoe MiG-29s and Su-35s for F-16s and Eurofighters. It would replace T-80s with Leopard 2s. It would retire all it's S-300s and S-400s and replace them with Patriot or MEADs. Even small arms would go, replaced with a Western European gun.

Pretty much everything would have to go.

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As opposed to Turkey who deploys... where exactly, other then across the border in Syria?
As opposed to Turkey, who has... how many exactly?
As opposed to Turkey...
Yeah, unlike Turkish non-existent space assets...

So the world's former other Super-power has now fallen into comparing their overall utility to their once rival against... well... Turkey's value? That's where we are?

My my my. How the mighty have fallen.

Anyway to your point, Turkey brings none of those things, because it relies on NATO / the US/ European allies in a common pool to provide those things. Which means, sure, you can join NATO... if you give up everything you have independently.

Haha, "those living in glass houses"...

The US has done nothing in decades that compares remotely to what Russia has done in Syria. Not even close.

For some reason we defended it across centuries quite well. Maybe you just don't understand how it can be done since you never had enough practice.

Your neighbors were weak and divided. That is increasingly not the case. Especially China.

Meh, changes can be made, common standards created. Where there is a will, there is a way.

You misunderstand. There is no "common" standard to be had here. NATO and Russia won't reach some kind of middle ground. There are 29 countries expected to us the same thing... then Russia joining it... they don't get to redefine what the standard is.

Basically, Russia joining means scrapping everything you currently have and buying all new stuff. That is what every single Eastern European country has done, or is in the process of doing at various rates.

And... where they will be, exactly?
Can they defend Poland alone from "Russian hordes" as result?

With assist from US Air power and NATO allies? Yes. Absolutely. The Baltics, for the US, are the hard part. Poland is not by comparison. Eastern European NATO allies don't build their militaries under the assumption they'd have to defend against Russia alone... just slow them down so long as it takes US, German, French and British forces to redeploy there.

This is the part where you pretend S-400 will save Russian ground forces from being pummeled by Western Airpower, by the way, and I link expert-articles saying that's bunk, that you don't read because you really don't care, so you can commence with that nonsense if you wish.

[PACOX]

Russia sounds like the kid that is made nobody plays with him, because he is a jackass.

What is Russia going to do,form its own club?