The original epic Alterac Valley for brawl?

[Zayv]

Yes, but I don't think we'll see it in a truly classic incarnation. It would be an abridged version where the matches would last 1-2 hours and I would be so down for that. Yes, tune the rewards to make it rewarding so people do it, but there is no greater PvP experience than an epic Alterac Valley match. This is proven by the pre-expansion patches where everything is 10 levels higher and it returns to what it was: people summoning the elementals, aerial assaults, upgrading troops etc.

Good news is they are already/have already discussed it at Blizzard.

Source on that? I would like to see what they said. It's should be obvious to them that every pre-patch, AV plays infinitely better than midway through the xpac.

I never played a FULL AV in vanilla, so I'm not sure what other mechanics could tweak it to be more like those days. Did people every zerg or try to zerg back then, like they do now?

[Lex Icon]

I dont think it would really work out like people like to think.

The ways of dealing AoE damage in a 40 v 40 environment have changed drastically since vanilla pvp.

I speak from my legion point of view as ret paladin and frost mage point of view in vanilla :

Back then i would jump into a enemy zerg with blessing of protection from a paladin friend get off some Arcane Explosions and after that would die in like 0.5 seconds because back then every class was squishy like nothing else.

Nowadays every class is very durable and can tank in a zerg with 2-3 healers on you while dealing upwards of 700-1 million AoE dps in a 40 zerg with pvp templates.

What i mean with the comparsion is back then everyone could die in seconds and healers were not that big of a deal, in todays wow a 40 v 40 alterac zerg would simply come down to the fact of hey horde team has 10 healers and alliance has 5, guess which team will be locked in their base and will ultimatly leave and give the horde team a free boss kill after half an hour or 2.

I would be curious how it would play out, there certainly would be great strategic possiblities like if alliance is locked into their base for the horde team to warlock portal up behind them and flanking them from behind or something.

the AoE everyone can dish out is an issue for sure.. but AV works pretty well in pre expansion mode when the npc's gets buffed to the new level cap while you're still at the old one. they should keep it like that always but for some reason they don't.

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Source on that? I would like to see what they said. It's should be obvious to them that every pre-patch, AV plays infinitely better than midway through the xpac.

I never played a FULL AV in vanilla, so I'm not sure what other mechanics could tweak it to be more like those days. Did people every zerg or try to zerg back then, like they do now?

it was slower paced back then.. the goal wasn't to reach the end asap for rewards as most players are used to now.

[Gemini Soul]

HELL YES!

I loved the 12+ hour AV games back in vanilla, was only time this game had the war in WARcraft.

[The Big Ginger]

Yes, absolutely. Great memories from that BG. Back when towers and bosses and team play actually mattered. It was epic, could last hours. I'd do that for sure.

[Saberstrike]

holla holla get nostalgia dolla. Hate to be a stick in the mud but it's not as great as you're remembering it, and it sure as hell won't be with the current state of the game (see: Ashran, Isle of Conquest, literally any WPvP quest area, healers).

Now; To re-imagine AV to make it -feel- more old-school in a meaningful, modern way? That I can get behind. Example:

> Fields of Strife have two armies of NPCs fighting at the beginning of the game, slowing down and dismounting players. You can ride around it but if your side wins the middle by killing three enemy commanders (about equal to tower masters / galv) your side pushes fourth. The NPCs will do significant damage and assist in capturing towers / garrisons by increasing the tick-count by 5% per soldier.

> The lootable turn-ins are gone, replaced with Tarren Mill VS South Shore style ranks for players that participate in 5/10/20/30 enemy kills. Dying reduces that counter by 5. At 10 you can upgrade the troops, making your soldiers elites after 10 players turn it in. At 20, you can call a airstrike that deals massive AoE damage to enemies. Once 3 players reach 30 and 'turn it in' to the NPCs the old bosses appear and push into the lines.

> Reinforcements increased to 400 but NPC deaths contribute to them as well. That includes mine guards.

> Control of mines will give 25% dmg buff per mine to the soldier NPCs.

Something like that would be awesome, but unfortunately making it come to pass will likely cost us 7 raid tiers.

[Maleficents]

Source on that? I would like to see what they said. It's should be obvious to them that every pre-patch, AV plays infinitely better than midway through the xpac.

I never played a FULL AV in vanilla, so I'm not sure what other mechanics could tweak it to be more like those days. Did people every zerg or try to zerg back then, like they do now?

It's not very exciting or enlightening: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/8...lterac-valley/

holla holla get nostalgia dolla. Hate to be a stick in the mud but it's not as great as you're remembering it, and it sure as hell won't be with the current state of the game (see: Ashran, Isle of Conquest, literally any WPvP quest area, healers).

Now; To re-imagine AV to make it -feel- more old-school in a meaningful, modern way? That I can get behind. Example:

> Fields of Strife have two armies of NPCs fighting at the beginning of the game, slowing down and dismounting players. You can ride around it but if your side wins the middle by killing three enemy commanders (about equal to tower masters / galv) your side pushes fourth. The NPCs will do significant damage and assist in capturing towers / garrisons by increasing the tick-count by 5% per soldier.

> The lootable turn-ins are gone, replaced with Tarren Mill VS South Shore style ranks for players that participate in 5/10/20/30 enemy kills. Dying reduces that counter by 5. At 10 you can upgrade the troops, making your soldiers elites after 10 players turn it in. At 20, you can call a airstrike that deals massive AoE damage to enemies. Once 3 players reach 30 and 'turn it in' to the NPCs the old bosses appear and push into the lines.

> Reinforcements increased to 400 but NPC deaths contribute to them as well. That includes mine guards.

> Control of mines will give 25% dmg buff per mine to the soldier NPCs.

Something like that would be awesome, but unfortunately making it come to pass will likely cost us 7 raid tiers.

Rubbish. Don't try telling people their memory "isn't as good as you remember it". Every pre-patch, AV returns to being fun and exciting. It doesn't need any major changes to make it a good fight again. It doesn't need all the old NPCs. It just needs number tweaks (strong NPCs and reinforcements) - that's the only thing it needs.

[Alfakennyone]

As long as I can get the 6 minute achievement, then yes lol

[Maleficents]

As long as I can get the 6 minute achievement, then yes lol

That achievement needs to be removed.

[Deathquoi]

I'd like to see it come back just so people can realize that spending an hour in queue and an hour in the BG just to get like 5 honor isn't fun.

[Hctaz]

Didn't TM vs SS event and Ashran, remind you how horrible that game play is? or is this just rose tinted glasses taking over?

Ashran was an abomination and wasn't done correctly at all. TM vs SS was never really all that much like AV. AV had a FUCK ton of side objectives like powering up your NPCs, getting them wolf mounts, getting control of the enemies' mine, getting bat riders, summing the huge ass boss elementals... all of that stuff took a lot of time and effort and was actually fun. I've done it recently when people were just farming HKs for the Nat Pagle book. We actually summoned the frost dude and got bat riders out horde side. The fight then ended shortly because we ran out of resources and it was lame... ;-; they need to bring this back as a brawl.

[TheVaryag]

Would you support the original Alterac Valley coming back in pvp brawl. I'm talking about pre nerf when the elites were elite, when you could get summon the bosses and had plenty of time to. Or when you could get the air support going.
Even if you were not a fan or never played it, would its addition to pvp brawl hurt you? It's clear I'd like to see it but many hated it.

Watch this video for a recap on the old Alterac Valley and memory lane for some.

https://youtu.be/xQj2fbUGaDE?t=20

I want to say no, because It wouldn't be the same experience. We'd have the point system again, cause Blizz don't feel like getting rid of that I'm sure. And no captainsor lieutannts, or giant elementals to summon, I doubt they'd go that far... don't get me wrong, I HOPE they do... but I don't think anyone from today's wow dev team knows what made original AV good and I don't trust them to remake It Into a brawl.

Because... look at Ashran, that was suppose to be AV 2.0 and look how that worked out.

[Termak]

I dont think it would really work out like people like to think.

The ways of dealing AoE damage in a 40 v 40 environment have changed drastically since vanilla pvp.

I speak from my legion point of view as ret paladin and frost mage point of view in vanilla :

Back then i would jump into a enemy zerg with blessing of protection from a paladin friend get off some Arcane Explosions and after that would die in like 0.5 seconds because back then every class was squishy like nothing else.

Nowadays every class is very durable and can tank in a zerg with 2-3 healers on you while dealing upwards of 700-1 million AoE dps in a 40 zerg with pvp templates.

What i mean with the comparsion is back then everyone could die in seconds and healers were not that big of a deal, in todays wow a 40 v 40 alterac zerg would simply come down to the fact of hey horde team has 10 healers and alliance has 5, guess which team will be locked in their base and will ultimatly leave and give the horde team a free boss kill after half an hour or 2.

I would be curious how it would play out, there certainly would be great strategic possiblities like if alliance is locked into their base for the horde team to warlock portal up behind them and flanking them from behind or something.

Oh you are so wrong, AQ40/warlord geared warrior with 2-3 healers was a freaking unstoppable murdermachine which could stop 20sh allies and walk out victoriously. Back then the aoe was nothing compared to todays massive aoe spells though, it was just blizzard, volleys and firerain from warlocks and stuff, today every class has waaay too powerful aoe skills to do like 2mill singletarget bursts with aoe spells.

[Socialhealer]

holla holla get nostalgia dolla. Hate to be a stick in the mud but it's not as great as you're remembering it, and it sure as hell won't be with the current state of the game (see: Ashran, Isle of Conquest, literally any WPvP quest area, healers).

Now; To re-imagine AV to make it -feel- more old-school in a meaningful, modern way? That I can get behind. Example:

> Fields of Strife have two armies of NPCs fighting at the beginning of the game, slowing down and dismounting players. You can ride around it but if your side wins the middle by killing three enemy commanders (about equal to tower masters / galv) your side pushes fourth. The NPCs will do significant damage and assist in capturing towers / garrisons by increasing the tick-count by 5% per soldier.

> The lootable turn-ins are gone, replaced with Tarren Mill VS South Shore style ranks for players that participate in 5/10/20/30 enemy kills. Dying reduces that counter by 5. At 10 you can upgrade the troops, making your soldiers elites after 10 players turn it in. At 20, you can call a airstrike that deals massive AoE damage to enemies. Once 3 players reach 30 and 'turn it in' to the NPCs the old bosses appear and push into the lines.

> Reinforcements increased to 400 but NPC deaths contribute to them as well. That includes mine guards.

> Control of mines will give 25% dmg buff per mine to the soldier NPCs.

Something like that would be awesome, but unfortunately making it come to pass will likely cost us 7 raid tiers.

lmao you couldn't pvp your way out of a paper bag, your idea is to just farm npcs for reinforcements? this is one of the worst ideas ive ever seen.

awesome it would never be, and no it's not nostaglia i don't want vanilla back i don't want tbc or wotlk, i just want AV back, stop talking utter SHIT.

[Saberstrike]

Implying old AV wasn't farming NPCs / low-geared players for resources to summon the boss and break the 6 hour stalemate until it bugs out / dies because healers suck, and you have to do it all over again.

It was the closest WoW came to feeling like a genuine war, but it was also clunky, slow, and ultimately only held up on the strength of it's ideas -- rather than actual gameplay; Which Ashran failed to realize as it's idea was 'a war that never ends', which is sort of missing the point.

Like most of Vanilla, it was fun because of the world and the people, not the fact you had to grind the same dull things for weeks and weeks to get your pvp title / tier 2 / warlord or marshal weapons. That gameplay simply has no place in 2017, and I don't trust modern-day Blizz to 'fix' it in a way that won't end in a disaster.

You couldn't pvp your way out of your rose-tinted goggles, my good man. (: You're probably also a kind of person who thought Tarren Mill vs Southshore BG was fun, when it was objectively dull. Very unrewarding if you're a melee, and honestly feeling like a pve zerg-fest if you're a ranged or a healer. It has a tactical element, that's true -- but organizing a pug of 40 is impossible.

[Maleficents]

@Saberstrike

I enjoyed Tarren Mill vs Southshore on both my warrior and my healer. You're right, objectively it wasn't the most complicated, but people have been asking for a 'kill people' map for years. It was basically a large arena.

I disagree with your 'it was fun because of the world and the people' line entirely. If that was true, AV wouldn't be fun in this day and age when the NPCs are scaled correctly. That just isn't the case, and there are hundreds of thousands of posts that say people had more fun in the pre-expansion patch than they had entire expansions.

You can't say the gameplay has no place, when people actively ASK for that kind of gameplay. That means there is a demand.

[Saberstrike]

If that was true, AV wouldn't be fun in this day and age when the NPCs are scaled correctly.

Idk man, I've seen a lot of posts that praised the pre-patch AV @ level 100, when the NPCs were scaled to 109. Personally I found it obnoxious as at the time I was playing a rogue and 110s see through 100's stealth throughout the entire freaking map... <_<

And it's not like I'd be against them putting old AV back, I just rather see them do something new and better with the old AV's ideas, much as it -had- been tried (and failed) in the past. Though I think the whole pvp reward system will have to be reworked for that type of gameplay to not feel like a massive waste of time. A 6 hour loss -- yay, I got 50 honor and a mana potion for my rogue. Riveting. Hate to say it, but AV with a better-tuned Ashran loot system with (chance for?) item rewards from objectives (towers / captains / mines) might actually work.

[stomination]

Would you support the original Alterac Valley coming back in pvp brawl. I'm talking about pre nerf when the elites were elite, when you could get summon the bosses and had plenty of time to. Or when you could get the air support going.
Even if you were not a fan or never played it, would its addition to pvp brawl hurt you? It's clear I'd like to see it but many hated it.

Watch this video for a recap on the old Alterac Valley and memory lane for some.

https://youtu.be/xQj2fbUGaDE?t=20

For it to work you would have to buff the crap out of things so that we cant just rush and remove reinforcements

[bestellen]

I say that having loved AV dearly. I was in a 72+ hour AV .

[Deleted]

I wouldn't resub just for it but definitely yes. It amazes me how so many years after vanilla, they still can't make anything as good in terms of large scale, long battles. Ashran and Tol Barad were terrible and boring and even wintergrasp wasn't that great. Maybe because open pvp doesn't work well in this game, I don't know but Alterac Valley in its prime was a very fun experience back when the game wasn't all about rushing for rewards and fast food design.

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Idk man, I've seen a lot of posts that praised the pre-patch AV @ level 100, when the NPCs were scaled to 109. Personally I found it obnoxious as at the time I was playing a rogue and 110s see through 100's stealth throughout the entire freaking map... <_<

And it's not like I'd be against them putting old AV back, I just rather see them do something new and better with the old AV's ideas, much as it -had- been tried (and failed) in the past. Though I think the whole pvp reward system will have to be reworked for that type of gameplay to not feel like a massive waste of time. A 6 hour loss -- yay, I got 50 honor and a mana potion for my rogue. Riveting. Hate to say it, but AV with a better-tuned Ashran loot system with (chance for?) item rewards from objectives (towers / captains / mines) might actually work.

Its pretty easy to attract the playerbase in WoW to do anything, just attach good rewards to it ^^

It wouldn't be difficult to give rewards based on objectives to accomplish and not winning/losing the match. After all, its a war, winning/losing never mean much.

Thus even if Alterac would last for 6-10 hours, you would still earn good rewards just for playing for a while and accomplishing objectives in the map. That way there wouldn't be a need to play until winning, winning would give some extra loot but nothing too crazy compared to just playing the match

[Ribesal]

If the one-time quest per brawl can be done otherwise instead of winning a brawl when one is up (or cancelling the quest in this week completely), sure, why not? could be funny.

I want it back just for a chance to get my 1000 kills for a hidden artifact skin - last AV I queued I got 3 HKs. That's gotta be wrong....

If they haven't fixed it you can just join dungeons or raids, dying group members count there aswell for some reason.