Elderly German Woman Fined 1,350 Euros for Sharing Anti-Immigrant Joke on Facebook

[Runenwächter]

That was an example. Read the laws. You were the one who suggested that things need to happen first before actions can be taken
What's your problem? A threat is a threat whether it's threatening dignity or life and is therefore punishable, this isn't up for discussion.

No I havent. I have stated that a free society has to bear the risk of not preemptively stopig a person from speaking and that you can not punish a person preemptively for having commited a crime before the crime has been commited. Which is a distinction you fail misserably at.

They would, they have in the past too... as if that's something new and what has her being punished on the basis of one post to do with anything? If she murder`s someone, she'll be judged for that murder too and not some theft she did a year before, at the same time however - they'll take a look at how that person behaved in the past and can tell whether the culprit is truely sorry or just a freaking maniac and set the sentence accordingly. .... so what are you trying to say?

What do you mean I am trying to say? You are the one doing "story time with crayzee" here. You figure out what you actually want to say. I'm not taking responsibility for your story not making sense.

Oh that's why he wants to fine facebook? Yeah right.
Facebook is public space as soon as you surpass a certain amount of friends/followers. Sharing a picture with 500 people is no longer private space. Otherwise, I'd be allowed to distribute music and movies through Facebook under the pretense of "I'm just sharing and watching this with my friends, pal"

No. That is not the argument being brought forth. Imagine publically inviting to a party and 500 people show up. Does that make your house or the gound it is build on a public space? No it doesnt. Public invitation and public access doesnt mean an event, a group or a physical space is automatically a "public space". So Stop making shit up, actually concern yourself with the legislation.

? lul

you bore me.

While I fail to see how that refutes any point I made to adress that dismissive and cruel joke you made, I hope no one is forcing you to be here.

[Mosotti]

I hope that prosecutor gets decapitated on a Berlin random bridge

[baskev]

I think I'll just ignore you instead.

lol....because you can not read my whole text???

I talk about not judging a crime ( the crime of fining her or the crime of not fining her enough) because there is not enough info...And you cut a little part out of my text and post it out of context omg...
you are really funny.....

[Deleted]

I can't find a source for this story from anywhere credible. It's Breitbart, Infowars and Heatst(?)

Is this what they're calling one of them fake newses?

[Deleted]

No I havent. I have stated that a free society has to bear the risk of not preemptively stopig a person from speaking and that you can not punish a person preemptively for having commited a crime before the crime has been commited. Which is a distinction you fail misserably at.


What do you mean I am trying to say? You are the one doing "story time with crayzee" here. You figure out what you actually want to say. I'm not taking responsibility for your story not making sense.


No. That is not the argument being brought forth. Imagine publically inviting to a party and 500 people show up. Does that make your house or the gound it is build on a public space? No it doesnt. Public invitation and public access doesnt mean an event, a group or a physical space is automatically a "public space". So Stop making shit up, actually concern yourself with the legislation.


While I fail to see how that refutes any point I made to adress that dismissive and cruel joke you made, I hope no one is forcing you to be here.

Everything you said is wrong.
You are the one making things up.

It's not preemptive punishment
If I make a public invitation (open for everyone) it becomes an event.
If I share something to 500 people, it's considered public too.

etc. etc. yawn yawn.

[Runenwächter]

I can't find a source for this story from anywhere credible. It's Breitbart, Infowars and Heatst(?)

Is this what they're calling one of them fake newses?

https://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/art...erurteilt.html

- - - Updated - - -

Everything you said is wrong.

Now that's a comprehensive list if Ive ever seen one. I think you would do great in a debate club.

[h4rr0d]

“Do you have anything against refugees?” The image, (...), included answers such as “Yes, machine guns and hand grenades.

Cheeky? Really?

The fine is justified and everybody who defends this women probably would have liked the picture as well.

Really hope, the next time a well integrated middle-eastern looking engineer decides it's a good idea to take a shortcut across a crowded plaza in his newly stolen acquired truck, it will be crowded with people who share your opinions rather than those who sympathize with the old lady.

[Deleted]

https://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/art...erurteilt.html

- - - Updated - - -





Now that's a comprehensive list if Ive ever seen one. I think you would do great in a debate club.

I'll have to repeat myself, and that's just troublesome to do. As I said, if 500 people are considered "private" I might as well share music and movies through facebook then "private setting" yay.

[Deleted]

Lol, that's only a problem if you don't get the point. Which is clearly the case judging by your use of "buddy" instead of the government. Your buddy and you can believe what ever you want, you are not the government and cannot make it a law. But as soon as it's the government - that is scary, whether it's "stop the hate speech" or "hate the refugees" campaign, irrelevant, ends up in fascism.

we have safeguards against the state going "you have to vote, but you have to vote for us, remember this, not that there is some kinda accident otherwise *wink*"
so no, i don't really fear the government, don't really get why you do, no one will throw me in jail cause i say i think angela merkel does a shitty job, that's totally my right to say, i'm just not allowed to say she sucks dicks for a living, which i'm fine with, wouldn't want anyone saying something like this about me.

what i do fear a lot more, hence the buddy comment is a group of skinheads harassing people in ways that's toeing the line between okay/not okay, protestors moving close to funerals to scream god hats fags while demanding their right to free speech be upheld, people telling others i'm a pedophile because they saw me moving the streets with some little kids (some men have children, shocking i know) these i fear a lot more then the government trying to demand i "think" how they do, for this we have safeguards, doesn't mean every form of thought is fine. May sound shocking to you, but germany is big on the idea that my personal rights end where they cut into yours.


edit:

I can't find a source for this story from anywhere credible. It's Breitbart, Infowars and Heatst(?)

Is this what they're calling one of them fake newses?

the story at it's core is true, the thing is that the totally not right wing sites are presenting it as a poor old lady that get's fined for disliking refugees, while in fact she gets fined for breaking a law that while in this case is protecting refugees/immigrants would just as much protect black people, or gays, disabled, albinos, people with one leg, even natives in general, the core of the law is to protect everyone, not some "see, either you profess your love to these "refugees" or you get put behind bars"

[Runenwächter]

I'll have to repeat myself, and that's just troublesome to do. As I said, if 500 people are considered "private" I might as well share music and movies through facebook then "private setting" yay.

No you just fail to make a distinction between a public invitation and public access and a public space. The number of 500 or any number doesnt determine if an event or space is public or private. Public events can be held on private property, as can private events. Private events can he held of public property,as can public events.
Each group, public or private, exists on facebooks private property. A groups public or private nature is determined by its accessibility and not the nature of the legal entity that owns the space. If you are still confused how thats possible ask for an ELI5 on reddit.

[Deleted]

One question how does all of this matter? And if I'm failing to distinct between them, than that is owed to the language barrier, since my english isn't the best obviously.

For all I care:

this women got fined, obviously, this means what she did was unlawful.

Why? Because she didn't share this in private.
She posted it publicly. A facebook enviroment of 500 people, are not considered "closest family and friends" anymore, that much is a fact.
That's how it's handled in court.
That too, is a fact.

That means she did hate speech that is capable of inciting unrest.
That, as a matter of fact, is how the court saw her postings.

Someone reported her to the police.
That is a fact.

This isn't preemptive punishment, it's punishment for a deed that has been done.
Because there is no such thing or need as "show us the person who got endangered by it"
That too, is a fact.

Are you denying any of this?

[rayden54]

Laws and their enforcement can overstep obviously, but I think we are heading in the direction of making internet communication have the same consequences of real life speaking. A lot of people's facebook accounts have hundreds or more people as friends. It's rarely just family and "real friends". It's essentially like standing in a very crowded public place and yelling when you post. Even more so in places like this forum.

Imagine standing in front of a few thousand people and shouting something that you post here or elsewhere. Maybe you'd be okay, but consider some of the stuff people spew out on here, facebook, twitter and wherever else. A lot of people would have probably gotten themselves murdered by now for some of their comments, if not beaten to shit but still living.

I certainly agree with you that the internet (especially places like Facebook) is basically a very crowded public place. It's why I think the people who still demand privacy while spewing their every thought to random strangers need a reality check.

Keep in mind though, that you can't really beat the shit out of someone over the internet, and unless the things they're saying are actually illegal, then the legal ramifications are still the same.

[Deleted]

Ahahahahaha. Oh lord. I read these articles and everytime think "really? Is this a Parody website? are Countries actually being this retarded these days"

Wooop woop politcal correctness!

This is why internet is such an amazing thing, we can ridicule them, post our frog memes and raise the next generation to hate and despise these fascists.

[Berengil]

Any country where people are not free to speak their minds, even if I am disgusted by what they have to say, is not truly free.

Apparently protecting people's fee fees is more important.

[Allybeboba]

Oh my! Sharing a joke online gets someone targeted by their own government, and actual death threats toward that person are tolerated by the same government?

I have one thing to say about that one.

[Deleted]

Oh my! Sharing a joke online gets someone targeted by their own government, and actual death threats toward that person are tolerated by the same government?

who even implied that deaths threats are acceptable/get ignored ?

[Allybeboba]

who even implied that deaths threats are acceptable/get ignored ?

The authorities and news media that haven't followed up on them.

[Deleted]

The authorities and news media that haven't followed up on them.

how do you know on what the authoroties do follow up ? and the media ? you know as well as i do (i at least hope you do...) is looking for good headlines more then anything, only reason this whole case is even news is cause it was an old(ish) woman that got fined, no way in hell you would have read "26 year old skinhead got fined 1350 euros after posting racist joke" "antifa activists are just as much assholes as the people they are against" just makes for a boring headline, way to old a story that is

[Deleted]

So a woman shares the wrong political opinion and gets her house invaded and robbed by the Government then sent death threats by an opposing political ideology

I don't know ,it sounds like justice to me.

Germans never learn apparently.. they have already tried it once and failed. They only difference is that they've replaced that Nazi outfit with a screaming overweight liberals one but are still using the same tactics.

[Allybeboba]

how do you know on what the authoroties do follow up ? and the media ? you know as well as i do (i at least hope you do...) is looking for good headlines more then anything, only reason this whole case is even news is cause it was an old(ish) woman that got fined, no way in hell you would have read "26 year old skinhead got fined 1350 euros after posting racist joke" "antifa activists are just as much assholes as the people they are against" just makes for a boring headline, way to old a story that is

I haven't seen roving gangs of people looking for them them have you? Has the reported on it yet? They usually do not as you noted, it isn't sensationalistic enough.