We're going to lose in Afghanistan

[Kellhound]

What would constitute being considered a win?

A return to a weak central government at nominal peace with the elder warlords controlling the countryside pre communism.

[Deleted]

The war has been going on since 1979.
The simple truth is Afghanistan is a country that has never has a strong central government and it doesnt want one.

It seemed half decent under Mohammed Zahir Shah and forward looking until the American dream decended and failed massively.

[Kellhound]

A win for who? At this point a win for America would be stealing anything of value and getting the fuck outta there. Would be a loss for the rest of the world though.

There really isnt much of value in the country, which is one of its problems.

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What was there ever to win for the US? Besides the oil I mean.

There is no oil there.

[HumbleDuck]

I wasn't aware that the conflict in Afghanistan was still a thing

It really is not. The country is mostly doing OK ( relative to Taliban days). However, there are some very unstable regions there, the reason behind those conflicts are mainly tribal stuff though.
We should understand that countries ran by tribes can't be concurred, but must be contained until they transition into a more modern state. Same goes for Primal Arabs (gulf nations) and Kurds.

[ButterBeast]

I'm not surprised since you appear misinformed on most issues that you engage in.

stalking people on mmo-champ lmao.

[Deleted]

There really isnt much of value in the country, which is one of its problems.

Apart from having some of the largest untapped energy and mineral resources in the world...

[Kellhound]

It seemed half decent under Mohammed Zahir Shah and forward looking until the American dream decended and failed massively.

He was deposed by his cousin, who turned to the Soviets. Also, he was generally effective in forward thinking in the cities of a rural country.

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Apart from having some of the largest untapped energy and mineral resources in the world...

Yet they were undiscovered for centuries.....

[Doctor Amadeus]

A return to a weak central government at nominal peace with the elder warlords controlling the countryside pre communism.

For us or them? Or fuck what they want It's about what we think they should have?


We either take away their freedom and make them a territory or we stop interfering the way we have and they explicitly ask for our help through diplomacy.

[Deleted]

He was deposed by his cousin, who turned to the Soviets. Also, he was generally effective in forward thinking in the cities of a rural country.

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Yet they were undiscovered for centuries.....

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say here. Sorry.

[Kellhound]

For us or them? Or fuck what they want It's about what we think they should have?


We either take away their freedom and make them a territory or we stop interfering the way we have and they explicitly ask for our help through diplomacy.

That is the best outcome for all involved until such time as they are ready to progress to a more modern society.

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I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say here. Sorry.

Thats not a surprise.....

[satimy]

So Trump is the first president to give a realistic assessment of the war. What is victory? Is it killing more bad guys than they kill of you? Because if thats the measure, then we most certainly won. Is it to make Afghanistan an America Junior, because it never will be. Or is it just a ruse to establish bases for the eventual invasion of Iran?

[Schmilblick]

No more opium to harvest ?

[Doctor Amadeus]

That is the best outcome for all involved until such time as they are ready to progress to a more modern society.

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Thats not a surprise.....

Again for whom maybe they want to exterminate each other work things out their own way. They see us they know what we have maybe they don't see our values as superior. Especially seeing we do the same things here a different way.

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Going in a destroying a country is easy. Staying and teaching it's people to think a differnt way is damn near impossible. Not to mention Karzai is an ineffective leader.

Which we cant do ourselves.

[Dhrizzle]

Well, I guess it depends on how you want to define "winning"

Militarily we completely and utterly destroyed the opposition.

Politically...well...When you try to establish a western style democracy in a country which doesn't hold the same basic values that are required from a democracy, it's doomed to fail.

Should have just leveled the training camps and told them if they ever sponsored or allowed terrorist organizations to train in the country again, we'd level a city.

It's amazing how we can spend so much money on weapons and soldiers but still can't bomb a country into a stable democracy.

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Millitarily the British completely destroyed the opposition in 1812, burned down the White House and everything. I don't think you'll find any one calling that a victory.

Canadians do.

[Rooflesstoofless]

I wasn't aware that the conflict in Afghanistan was still a thing

Holy shit I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this.

[Dhrizzle]

Oh please if someone is going to be a terrorist they were going to be one no matter what. They will come up with any reason whether it's intervention or being ignored.

Wait, are you saying there's a terrorist gene that will cause people to become extremists regardless of their social or personal situation?

[Rooflesstoofless]

Going in a destroying a country is easy. Staying and teaching it's people to think a differnt way is damn near impossible. Not to mention Karzai is an ineffective leader.

But...but....Japan.

[Deleted]

Thats not a surprise.....

It wasn't a dig.
You said there was The simple truth is Afghanistan is a country that has never has a strong central government and it doesnt want one.

Which isn't true. They did well under the last king, he got rid of the Burqa and pushed for modernisation it was part of the hippy trail for fuck sake.

Then you said There really isnt much of value in the country, which is one of its problems.

Which isn't true 'largest untapped energy and mineral resources in the world' then you reply with something nonsensical.

Then you just condesend as if I can interpret these responses that make no sense.

[Dhrizzle]

The war has been going on since 1979.
The simple truth is Afghanistan is a country that has never has a strong central government and it doesnt want one.

I guess if your idea of "never" means you don't go back further than the 70's you're right, but if you go a tiny step further into the 60's (prior to the Soviet invasion and Cold War fuckery) you'll see Afghanistan was a pretty decent place to live.

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What was there ever to win for the US? Besides the oil I mean.

It made a statement not to fuck with the US after the 9/11 terror attacks.

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Going in a destroying a country is easy. Staying and teaching it's people to think a differnt way is damn near impossible. Not to mention Karzai is an ineffective leader.

It's a lot harder getting people to accept you as a saviour or teacher when you've bombed the fuck out of them and plunged the country into chaos.

[Doctor Amadeus]

The only way a country like Afghanistan could be pacified is killing all the indigenous population and startingng over. Something that not only is impractical but wouls also trash our reputation (more so then it already is) with the world.

I can appreciate this clarity, but honestly we should do it the way haven't officially tried but works. Seduction were sort of doing it already give them a taste for what we have and put their culture to the test. And in generations just like Soviet Union and China they will come around if it's realnot forced. It's what all extremism fears.