No Vengeance nerf in the hotfixes?? Are they kidding?

[Toybox]

imo nope they shouldn't... i play a tank to tank not contribute dps, same as when i healed.... if i wanted to DPS i'd play DPS.

So what, you just stand there doing absolutely nothing when there's no damage to heal?

[Deleted]

Reading through all these comments its very obvious who the players are who are skilled and assets to their raid team are and are not.

[BiggestNoob]

http://i.imgur.com/SkIhjNK.png You're so right, there's no issue here at all.

You've been able to do that...

Such an elitist statement. It leaves no room for people who are new, or people who are used to other mmos, or people are used to a different time in WoWs history.

Max performance or gtfo.

Feel free to link your profile to allow yourself to be scrutinized so we can determine how awesome or "terrible" you are at this game.

Nothing you just said makes any sense. What you just said is the same as saying DPS who are new to the game shouldn't be required to do mechanics or use their cooldowns. DPS have to do the same thing. Some talents are better for survivability and disconnecting from the boss to deal with some mechanic results in no risk to yourself or the raid, but once you've learned everything you start optimizing movement and lowering your survivability because your healers are more comfortable etc. Everyone has to do this, it's called "learning how to play" and "not sucking."

New players who have no idea what they're doing don't belong in difficult content until they've actually learned how to play the game, and if they do and fuck it up, they're rightfully going to be called out for it. This is the same way you wouldn't be responsible for flying a passenger airplane full of people the day after you decided to become a pilot.

[pinkz]

this is a expac for "some" tanks, i was in a regular NFL dungeon group was all 110's doing WQ, on last boss we had our tank....prot warrior...way over pull, our healer died along with three DPS. we thought wipe, well when warrior dies and he didn't. using cooldowns, self heals etc. stopped 13 close call deaths and soloed everything. took like 15+ minutes

8 months of QQ on quardians in PVP before any nerfs rolled PVP wise, QQ also on them PVE wise related to raids being OP compared to other tanks, obvious in use and progression.

i would not expect much in balancing such as promised or stated as being done quicker this expac due to PVE and PVP separation...it has not happened as fast as promised, so by the time blizz gets to nerfing or adjusting...which is about now, they have a excuse to stop what they have still not done...to work on next expac

[Deleted]

Vengeance DPS is overtuned.

But I wish people were as quick demanding for balance when after 100 guilds killed M Gul'dan, you could only find 2 VDH parses on warcraftlogs.

[Tech614]

Vengeance DPS is overtuned.

But I wish people were as quick demanding for balance when after 100 guilds killed M Gul'dan, you could only find 2 VDH parses on warcraftlogs.

Yep, right now VDH shines at one thing compared to shining at NOTHING for almost the entirety of this expansion. The real karma is when you see a Gaurdian druid complaining about it after they got left OP for nearly a fucking year.

SB is overtuned damage wise but not by as much as people think it is. If you actually have to use pain on Demon Spikes(which you will in Tomb) and shards on Soul Barrier(again which you will in Tomb) that 900k dps becomes 600k in a hurry.

Also people linking Krosus logs doesn't tell the full picture either when the constant magic damage results in a crazy high up time on 15% bonus agility. Krosus is in no way a typical fight for a VDH, not even close.

[Meiffert]

What does this have to do with anything, it's a tank, it shouldn't be doing that much dmg. Who cares how it compares to his other raiders, look at the raw numbers.

Are you serious?

Let's look at some Star Augur logs (mostly single target fight)

A holy priest 400k dps
A resto shaman almost 400k dps
Holy paladin 650k
Disc priest 500k
A resto druid almost 500k
A mistweaver almost 350k

Here is an arcane mage, frost mage and a fire mage all doing around 50k dps or less.

Oh no! All healers are 10 times stronger dps than any mage spec!

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

imo nope they shouldn't... i play a tank to tank not contribute dps, same as when i healed.... if i wanted to DPS i'd play DPS.

"Argue for your limitations and they are yours." Just know that high end guilds expect more from both their tanks and healers, as well as high end M+ groups. Everyone should be doing anything they can to make the run more successful, not standing around arguing "not my job".

[ls-]

imo nope they shouldn't... i play a tank to tank not contribute dps, same as when i healed.... if i wanted to DPS i'd play DPS.

Did you stop playing in TBC or something? Tanks' DPS has become important since WotLK, same thing happened to healers a bit later.

[Emerald Archer]

Are you serious?

Let's look at some Star Augur logs (mostly single target fight)

A holy priest 400k dps
A resto shaman almost 400k dps
Holy paladin 650k
Disc priest 500k
A resto druid almost 500k
A mistweaver almost 350k

Here is an arcane mage, frost mage and a fire mage all doing around 50k dps or less.

Oh no! All healers are 10 times stronger dps than any mage spec!

Why are you comparing trash players to decent ones?? Pretty random comparrison to make mate. I'm comparing people of equal skill in the thought process, maybe you should try doing the same

[Meiffert]

your dps are shit [...] not knowing their rotations etc.

Your DH tank got 2 100th percentile logs and the rest purple, none of your other raiders were close to that level of consistency.

What does this have to do with anything, it's a tank, it shouldn't be doing that much dmg. Who cares how it compares to his other raiders, look at the raw numbers.

Why are you comparing trash players to decent ones?? Pretty random comparrison to make mate. I'm comparing people of equal skill in the thought process, maybe you should try doing the same

Are you pulling my leg here?

You literally said in your first post that a tank should always be lower because he is a tank even though he had rank 1 compared to shit players.
Now you are saying the exact opposite.


Edit: I think I realized what you meant, but you have to compare. As the expansion progresses, the numbers go up.
There is nothing wrong in principle with a tank doing 2m dps if the damage dealers of equal skill are doing 5m.

(I'm not arguing that VDH are or aren't overtuned here, you just worded it a bit badly and i misunderstood I guess.)

[cuafpr]

Did you stop playing in TBC or something? Tanks' DPS has become important since WotLK, same thing happened to healers a bit later.

playing non-stop since release been a tank since about 6 months into TBC, and i know but that doesn't mean i like it. Tank dps wasn't any near the same lvl as dps in wotlk that started later to make soloing as a tank easier.

- - - Updated - - -

So what, you just stand there doing absolutely nothing when there's no damage to heal?

you move the boss as needed, pick up adds. dodge attacks, etc.... if you over gear something to the point you don't need to do that then its probably no longer current. at 905 i can't just stand there for an entire fight in normal NH let HC or mythic. If your healers can keep up that well and one is just standing there, they swap specs to a dps spec (same with OT if one tank is geared enough to not need a taunt swap anymore).

- - - Updated - - -

"Argue for your limitations and they are yours." Just know that high end guilds expect more from both their tanks and healers, as well as high end M+ groups. Everyone should be doing anything they can to make the run more successful, not standing around arguing "not my job".

meh, my "dps" is ok but its not something i try for nor care about, it just happens. my concern is staying alive. Yes guilds want it b.c. its how the game has gone past few xpacs i just don't care for it and which it would go back to an earlier form of tanking where TPS not DPS mattered. I am fully aware that will never happen though cause doing that would cause an uproar, and likely a huge loss in the number of tanks in the game as people want their numbers.

[Deleted]

It will be nerfed and I'm sure about that.

Prot warriors got some insane damage in 7.1.5 and then got nerfed like 2 or 3 times

[Grobovshik]

Loled at tanks who dont care about dps because they are "staying alive". Wow, pressing 1 button when it hurts (almost always its same moment in a fight) is so hard, must be real excuse for dealing shit dps.

[Daan]

Spirit Bomb get out of control.

[Lazuli]

Loving spirit bomb right now creatures of azeroth pls lend me ur energy :3

[yarafx1]

DH finally a good tank / incoming nerf wagon. OP complaining about his piss raid team getting out dps'd by there most geared player. Doesn't account that 870mil of his 1.82b were on two AOE heavy fights. Shrugs. It will get nerf'd probably just with a cd of 20 seconds. That would be fine or bring it down to 200% of attack power.

[A dot Ham]

You've been able to do that...



Nothing you just said makes any sense. What you just said is the same as saying DPS who are new to the game shouldn't be required to do mechanics or use their cooldowns. DPS have to do the same thing. Some talents are better for survivability and disconnecting from the boss to deal with some mechanic results in no risk to yourself or the raid, but once you've learned everything you start optimizing movement and lowering your survivability because your healers are more comfortable etc. Everyone has to do this, it's called "learning how to play" and "not sucking."

New players who have no idea what they're doing don't belong in difficult content until they've actually learned how to play the game, and if they do and fuck it up, they're rightfully going to be called out for it. This is the same way you wouldn't be responsible for flying a passenger airplane full of people the day after you decided to become a pilot.

What does any of that have to do with a healer dpsing?

People play healers to heal... that's why I play one. If I wanted to dps, I would roll a dps class. The very fact that healers (while participating in RELEVANT content) can neglect healing in favor of dps. Means that even while the content is current... it is trivial. Its bad design.

Nice rant though. /gag

[Deleted]

What does any of that have to do with a healer dpsing?

People play healers to heal... that's why I play one. If I wanted to dps, I would roll a dps class. The very fact that healers (while participating in RELEVANT content) can neglect healing in favor of dps. Means that even while the content is current... it is trivial. Its bad design.

Nice rant though. /gag

Bad design according to whom?

[david0925]

What does any of that have to do with a healer dpsing?

People play healers to heal... that's why I play one. If I wanted to dps, I would roll a dps class. The very fact that healers (while participating in RELEVANT content) can neglect healing in favor of dps. Means that even while the content is current... it is trivial. Its bad design.

Nice rant though. /gag

when you get over your ocd about keping your group at 100% and/or stop playing with bad people that needed you to use every gcd to heal, you will see that you are able to do dps at absolutely no cost to the group, which only beneficial

if you cant handle that, that is fine.