Why do people use Left v Right on international forums?

[Spectral]

Not really by international standards the us IS rightist.

Sure, as long as you ignore the libertarian streak a mile wide, ignore the actual theocracies, ignore the actual fascists, and ignore the hardline social conservatism of the majority of Asian nations.

It's really striking how ignorant of actual international variation people that make your claim are. It's like your Overton window consists of nothing to the right of Mike Pence, therefore Mike Pence is unfathomably rightist.

[Noomz]

OK, but people don't chime in to say, "compared to the most leftist place on Earth, the United States is to the right", they claim that the United States is rightist in absolute terms. People use "by international standards" to simply mean "by European standards". Which, of course, is absurd.

You're not wrong there.
But should we really compare the US to ME or African standards? x)

[Deleted]

I would say the current American left is further than a lot of European left wingers. Most European parties are still nationalistic. For as much as they call Americans racist, They accept much fewer minorities into their borders

Eh what now?

[Spectral]

You're not wrong there.
But should we really compare the US to ME or African standards? x)

If we use the term "international standards", then yeah, we should. Those places actually do exist.

If what people actually mean is "the standards of modern Western European and Anglosphere nations", that's fine. Those are the only places in the world I'd actually consider living and I think they're the objectively best places for human thriving by any reasonable standard (with a slight apology to successful East Asian countries). I heartily endorse preferring the standards of Western Europe and the Anglosphere - let's just not go around pretending that this is actually "international standards" rather than just a small subset of the world (smaller than China or India individually!) that we happen to like.

[Kalcheus]

Because Americans can't handle new concepts very well. This includes basically anything that is outside US borders.

The notion of Left vs Right came from post-Revolutionary France, so apparently Americans handled that concept ok. Do you have anything to add to the discussion, or are you just here to bash for no reason?

[Spectral]

I would say the current American left is further than a lot of European left wingers.

I think this is where directionality breaks down entirely. The farthest left Europeans that remain in good standing in polite society (i.e. excluding tankies and other literal communists) are basically just strong economic socialists with highly socially liberal values. The furthest left Americans that remain in good standing in polite society say almost nothing about economics and focus almost entirely on identity politics, postmodernism, and various trivial grievances.

The European left is in a much more intellectually healthy spot.

[Deleted]

People use black and white dichotomies like "left vs right" and "liberal vs conservative" because they're incapable of seeing people in a more complex light.

And, yes. I am aware that's not what was asked.

[Dys]

It's just a meme now with both sides putting forth their best effort to be as pathetic as possible.

[Slant]

The notion of Left vs Right came from post-Revolutionary France, so apparently Americans handled that concept ok. Do you have anything to add to the discussion, or are you just here to bash for no reason?

It's not bashing. It literally is the situation. Anytime Europeans discuss politics, it's Americans brinng left vs. right into the discussion. Preferably with a brilliant comment like "Oh, it's those leftys being crybabies again!" or some other nonsense.

[schwarzkopf]

Ever notice that "international standards" begins and ends with Europe when people pull this card?

Actually - international standards are well - international. The science behind it evaluates thousands of figures both contemporary and historical.

when discussing American politics is to claim that it's far right

No, it is centre right. Not far right, even Trump who is bang up the top on Authoritarian is still only around 70% across the right.

It is moving to more far right as we speak, that's not a claim - that's a fact. Just compare Reagan politics to mainstream GoP today (ignoring Trump).

[Deleted]

Well, i am neither left nor right, not from a european POV or from an american POV.

I am a center conservative in context of the Federal republic of germany, and member of a conservative party.

And i am an anti fascist.

[Nitros14]

The USA as a whole is definitely more pro-private sector and anti-government than most of Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan and South Korea.

[Spectral]

Actually - international standards are well - international. The science behind it evaluates thousands of figures both contemporary and historical.



No, it is centre right. Not far right, even Trump who is bang up the top on Authoritarian is still only around 70% across the right.

It is moving to more far right as we speak, that's not a claim - that's a fact. Just compare Reagan politics to mainstream GoP today (ignoring Trump).

Once we include historical standards, this gets even more laughable.

Come on man, what fucking chart are you going to draw up that's going to situate modern American politics on the historical and international right? This is just downright absurd. It's a country where vast swaths of the economy are socialized, gay marriage is codified, liberal values around speech, expression, and lifestyle are practically a secular religion.

Putting that to the right of literally anything pre-Enlightenment would be downright ridiculous. I was sticking with modern international politics for the sake of keeping the argument somewhat reasonable.

[Deleted]

The USA as a whole is definitely more pro-private sector and anti-government than most of Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan and South Korea.

Anti government while they voted a right wing autocratic militarist corporate government into office?

[schwarzkopf]

Once we include historical standards, this gets even more laughable.

It isn't laughable. Also, I don't mean 2000 years of history. The studies have been going on for decades and study the last hundred years or so.

Please be rational, just because you are ignorant of a topic doesn't make it wrong.

[Spectral]

It isn't laughable. Also, I don't mean 2000 years of history. The studies have been going on for decades and study the last hundred years or so.

Please be rational, just because you are ignorant of a topic doesn't make it wrong.

Those goalposts sure moved swiftly.

[Orby]

The internet is a cancer, no one speaks the way people on here speak in real life about left and right, I got friends on left and right sides of the spectrum but we are still friends who can discuss like normal humans beings. hell we don';t even hardly discuss politics. On the internet however its a frikkin armchair war lol.

It's really fun to hear political views online compared to let's say when I am out with friends or at work or with my other half. My guess its a very behind closed doors mentality, with the internet, you are still behind closed doors but are behind hem with the wide world, faceless and unknown.

Maybe because I am from the UK. Not saying we don't have our extremists we do, but from a way the internet speaks about politics to what I hear when I am about my everyday life, its like two different worlds. Maybe its a very American thing to alienate people based on their political beliefs, or maybe its just internet mentality from anti-social-media bafoons?

Who knows?

Maybe any Americans can tell me if you are as bad as the internet when it comes to politics, are you all so brazen and outspoken about it, is it everywhere you go? Do you speak how people on here speaks when it comes to politics. Would love to know.

[Freighter]

The internet is a cancer, no one speaks the way people on here speak in real life about left and right, I got friends on left and right sides of the spectrum but we are still friends who can discuss like normal humans beings. hell we don';t even hardly discuss politics. On the internet however its a frikkin armchair war lol

Some people do. I know some people who frequent ilbe regularly do in a similar manner.

[Orby]

Some people do. I know some people who frequent ilbe regularly do in a similar manner.

Can I ask what country you are from?

[Freighter]

Can I ask what country you are from?

South Korea, living in singapore right now.