Diplomat causes death of bicycle driver, doesn't get charged with anything

[Deleted]

I mean if you follow this process and the other state ignores you poignantly (as the Saudis are doing) I would certainly advocate expelling the embassy.

and expelling diplomats or even whole embassys (while beeing aware they will probably respond in kind) would be perfectly fine (let's be real here, this isn't what will happen, at most this one diplomat while take paid leave) , but as per agreement we won't hold him accountable for breaking the law so we won't do it, not for what for all intents and purposes nonetheless was an accident

My issue here is that "accident" is not a sufficiently specific word. Calling it an accident and leaving it that strikes me as an example of the non-central fallacy. When we hear the term "accident", most of us think of something that's totally unanticipated and essentially blameless. Instead, what we have here is someone engaging in highly negligent behavior. OK, there's not intent involved, but there sure isn't a lot of give a shit involved either.

agreed, still can't find a better word then accident though

[Spectral]

...what for all intents and purposes nonetheless was an accident

My issue here is that "accident" is not a sufficiently specific word. Calling it an accident and leaving it that strikes me as an example of the non-central fallacy. When we hear the term "accident", most of us think of something that's totally unanticipated and essentially blameless. Instead, what we have here is someone engaging in highly negligent behavior. OK, there's not intent involved, but there sure isn't a lot of give a shit involved either.

[melodramocracy]

Diplomatic immunity always was, and continues to be, a ridiculous concept. The sooner it goes away, the better.

[s_bushido]

Diplomatic immunity always was, and continues to be, a ridiculous concept. The sooner it goes away, the better.

The immunity exists so that a country can't just go around arresting another country's diplomats and essentially hold them hostage to effect political change. And this has to be one of the worst examples I can think of of it being abused. An accident that would probably, at most, lead to a hefty fine for a "normal" person, is being played up as a cold-blooded murderer by idiots with an apparent axe to grind. It's ridiculous.

[Deleted]

The immunity exists so that a country can't just go around arresting another country's diplomats and essentially hold them hostage to effect political change. And this has to be one of the worst examples I can think of of it being abused. An accident that would probably, at most, lead to a hefty fine for a "normal" person, is being played up as a cold-blooded murderer by idiots with an apparent axe to grind. It's ridiculous.

never said it was cold-blooded murder or whatever, just that someone died and it is understandeble that people want "justice" for that, obviously it was not intentional and would basically be killing of the lowest degree , whatever that would be called in english, don't want to combine an endless string of words telling us that it wasn't done with ill intent.

aside from that i personally think that it is a great example of how it is abused though, cause things like parking in a no stop zone or speeding are exceedingly common, which i'm pretty sure isn't the intent behind diplomatic immunity, just look at the statistic posted like 10 posts up, 13,5~ per registed diplomat they broke the law, and these are only traffic violations, and obviously at least some people do nothing, let's say most do , some don't, that would leave at least 15+ times a year these people broke traffic laws, you go try and tell me these was a) accidentaly or b) the idea behind diplomatic immunity . (if you want you can also argue most do nothing, only some abuse the system, but would it really be better if out of a hundred 90 do nothing an 10 broke the law 130 times in a single year?)

[Puri]

In this case, he apparently wound up riding in the door zone and wound up dead because of the driver's actions. What the exact criminal charge is will vary by locale, but negligent, illegal behavior leading to death is not typically a 20 euro fine.

So additionally for carelessly opening the door he would be fined by 20 euros.

[shadowmouse]

for your first point sorry but really ?

Yep, really. Looking to your second point, for a guy claiming semantics, you argue a lot of semantics there. You can't have it both ways. X hit Y is language that conjures an image that completely ignores the bicyclist's possible contributory negligence and other factors such as what either person would have been able to see.

The fact is simple, we have little idea what really happened, or really even who the driver was. We have an article that was written with a particular ax to grind. We don't have the accident report, we don't really have details, the paper isn't even a Berlin paper, and the accompanying picture seems to be an unrelated stock photo. You're building your assertions based on how you think things went, essentially claiming guilt before the facts are heard.

Diplomats and to some degree even diplomatic personnel are subject to some concerns that we probably aren't. Beijing has a lot of embassies, so we see a good bit of the problems they can sometimes create. Maybe he was just a jerk parking in an area to show off his status or his car. On the other hand, car bombs are a thing and so is kidnapping. Maybe he had a need to be in a particular place, at a particular time, and parked where he couldn't get boxed in as easily or wouldn't have a potential bomb parked next to him. There are channels to investigate all of that, just as there are courts to sort of the facts of the case.

here we are discussing what in the end went wrong, and that was "bicycle hit door, man [who should have been paying attention to the road and wearing safety gear] died"

Not as good of a lead, right? I still wonder if this article, which could have just as easily led with things like the statistics following the accident, would have been news if it were someone from the Danish embassy. It wasn't, and it handily plays to outrage about Saudis, the Middle East, Islam, and all the rest. Maybe that's just coincidence, or maybe it isn't.

[Thoughtful Trolli]

It most definitely needs reworking. It's even more atrocious when the diplomats family is also given immunity, and members of said family go around committing crimes.

The only reason it really even exists the way it is, is because certain sorts of regimes would more than happily make up bogus charges against foreign diplomats, and then blackmail the other countries with it.

yah, like how anyone opening a door is somehow responsible for someone else who chooses to endanger their lives in vehicular traffic for who-the-hell-knows-why (probably too poor to afford a car, society's at fault for everything) throwing their life away on said door by being so reckless.

He could have opened the door on purpose and shouldn't be guilty even without diplomatic immunity.

[dextersmith]

So the family gets no justice?

[Runenwächter]

If he has diplomatic immunity just hire another diplomat to beat him up or whatever you deep the appropriate punishment. What are they going to do about it? They cant arrest or charge your hired goon.

[Ghostpanther]

When I had my motorcycle , for 3 years, one rule I always followed was when there are parked cars/trucks on the right side of the road, do not ride down the lane close to them. And I would use the same rule if I was on a bicycle. And cities which can not provide lanes esp for bikes, should give them the same rights to the road as cars.