ToS NM Cleared Day 1 by pugs and Heroic by Guilds, Yet LFR has to wait 2 months.

[SirCowdog]

well there is also 2nd reason - to keep sad pathetic creatures called mythic raiders feel happier because they think they matter to anyone and arent just the same statistic number to blizzard as those who do lfr

While WoW has ALWAYS had a problem with rampant elitism, I don't think it actually comes into the equation for LFR. Mythic raiders get the prestige of having downed mythic content. They don't need the added ego boost of laughing at LFR players. I doubt Mythic raiders even know LFR exists most of the time unless it somehow impacts their Mythic runs(like having to farm LFR for Titanforge upgrades. Worst. Design. Ever.)

Mythic wannabes will probably tell people that LFR should be removed. Generally this mentality comes from people who WANT to feel like a mythic raider, but don't actually do mythic content. It's the middle-range player who thinks that they are somehow made better by shitting on people who don't play at their level, even when their level is only normal/heroic. These are the worst parts of the community right there.

Wow you are so jealous it reeks. (lazy and bad people trying to justify their pitiful way of life by belittling the ones with accomplishments)

It's generally the opposite. As I said above, it's usually NOT the mythic raiders lording over lesser players. Mythic players generally only care about clearing mythic content, and don't give a rat's ass what everyone else is doing unless it's also mythic content. By the same token, LFR players generally aren't jealous of Mythic players because mythic content isn't even on their radar. They're "casual" remember? The complete opposite of the Mythic lifestyle.

No, the entire thing boils down to middle players who can't stand the idea of anyone playing differently than them.

[Deleted]

well there is also 2nd reason - to keep sad pathetic creatures called mythic raiders feel happier because they think they matter to anyone and arent just the same statistic number to blizzard as those who do lfr

Posts like this is why the mythic community just doesn't take anything you guys say seriously.
Do you really think we give a flying fuck what you do in LFR? They could bring it out a week before Mythic opens for all we care.
What you guys do in LFR has absolutely 0 impact on the way I and the rest of the raiders play this game and your pathetic insults are just that. Pathetic.

[kamuimac]

Posts like this is why the mythic community just doesn't take anything you guys say seriously.
Do you really think we give a flying fuck what you do in LFR? They could bring it out a week before Mythic opens for all we care.
What you guys do in LFR has absolutely 0 impact on the way I and the rest of the raiders play this game and your pathetic insults are just that. Pathetic.

so why dont you support lfr being open on day 1 ? if you dont care when its open why not help casual people who want to enjoy content from day 1 but are denied it by blizz

if what you claim is true why so much opposition against it being open instead help us and make community better by doin so ?

[Deleted]

so why dont you support lfr being open on day 1 ? if you dont care when its open why not help casual people who want to enjoy content from day 1 but are denied it by blizz

if what you claim is true why so much opposition against it being open instead help us and make community better by doin so ?

Why do I need to support something I don't give a shit about?
Why should I support a community that says shit like :

well there is also 2nd reason - to keep sad pathetic creatures called mythic raiders feel happier because they think they matter to anyone and arent just the same statistic number to blizzard as those who do lfr

How bout you act like a grownup first before asking for support from people you belittle on a daily basis?

[Deleted]

Or they could...ya know...not be such dirty bastards with the RNG on drops for good gear. Oh...wait. My bad. That would ruin their business model of milking players by setting up the odds in favor of the house, exactly like a casino. :/

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Then make LFR the base difficulty. The "intended" setting, and add more challenges for higher-end players at higher difficulty settings. Don't punish people for playing on the lowest setting.

Well there always has been RNG in drops, so not sure where you're going with this ? Granted it's even more visible now with TF, but people always ran low difficulty content to gear. Remember Dragon Soul ? It's not healthy to expect people playing on the highest level to be running the lowest difficulty of content. Having LFR release a few weeks later means every invested player will have their tier sets and prob trinkets too, and the carrot for running lfr becomes so small (high TF procs ongly) that they don't feel forced to do it.

[SirCowdog]

Well there always has been RNG in drops, so not sure where you're going with this ? Granted it's even more visible now with TF, but people always ran low difficulty content to gear. Remember Dragon Soul ? It's not healthy to expect people playing on the highest level to be running the lowest difficulty of content. Having LFR release a few weeks later means every invested player will have their tier sets and prob trinkets too, and the carrot for running lfr becomes so small (high TF procs ongly) that they don't feel forced to do it.

This is EXACTLY what I mean when I said Blizzard should stop being bastards with RNG. Fix their loot system. Mythic players should not have ANY reason to run LFR. The drops in LFR shouldn't even have a chance to drop anything even remotely useful for a mythic player. Not runes, not buffs, not consumables, or gear. Maybe there would be some bleed-over between Mythic and heroic. Or heroic and normal.

The entire system of loot in WoW has been bad since the beginning. Titanforge just makes it worse. Telling players they can't run content because it would screw with the loot is a horrible solution. Telling thousands upon thousands of LFR players that they have to wait for access to content because it MIGHT hurt the play of a handful of mythic raiders is....idiotic. It's no wonder we get people blaming mythic raiders for all the game's problems with explanations like that.

[Deleted]

What are you talking about ? There were incentives for running LFR in DS for the first few weeks only because it dropped tier, even though ilvl was garbage.

Then they removed tier from LFR, and the LFR audience was unhappy.

So they put tiers back in LFR, but started delaying LFR release exactly so raiders wouldn't feel forced to farm it. And not only mythic raiders, my raid team will probably get H KJ down only in a couple weeks, but I'd rather get fucked in the arse with a broken jar than feel like I have to run LFR to get my tier set.

And now they added TF in the game (I agree the system has huge flaws, I'm getting fucking tired of runing Ursoc MM for a trinket), so they won't make the mistake of making LFR availaible too soon. Sure some players will see benefits in running LFR in 3 weeks when it opens up, but the vast majority will already be confortable skipping it and gearing in the appropriate bracket.

And the "thousands upon thousands of LFR players" don't have to wait for access to content. The content is already there, they're free to put the effort in to see it, especially considering normal mode is really not hard to clear. If they can't / don't want to tackle normal mode raiding, they'll get a free tour of the content in a few weeks, what does it matter to them when this dumbed down content is released ? They're not competing with anybody in any way that this release schedule might hurt them.

The only thig releasing LFR asap would do, would hurt the players who actually commit to the game and might feel forced to run it when it is an awful experience for anyone used to even normal raiding.

Between making the players who don't commit to the game and whose game experience won't be impacted from seeing the content a bit later in any other way than having to wait a bit, and putting even more strain on raiders already getting worn out by the constant grind that is Legion, I'm happy about the choice Blizzard made here.

[Sansnom]

Wow you are so jealous it reeks. (lazy and bad people trying to justify their pitiful way of life by belittling the ones with accomplishments)

That jealously goes in the opposition direction as well. You don't need to look very far to see angry raiders complaining about LFR and the loot dropping from LFR. So others can also say it is pitiful that raiders feel jealous about the casuals, entering, seeing, and getting loots from LFR that they need to belittle their achievement in order to feel superior.

So neither side are completely innocence but neither are their arguments totally incorrect.

One entity not being blamed is the one who has control and their decision affect this. Blizzard. Personally, I think Blizzard shoulders a lot of the blame in that, in my opinion, they treat all non-raiders as second class citizen. They are desperate to funnel as many as people into raids as possible. Because, again as a personal opinion, their return on their investment in raids is pitiful. Raids has been their idea of the end game and so most likely consume the majority of their development resources yet the amount of people that actually does not justify that level of resource allocation. Blizzard refuse to budge. Rather develop alternative content for their diverse player base, they continue with their Raid Or Nothing strategy.

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It has a lot to do with what you posted. The reasoning why people don't care that people clear normal week one is because those people aren't "done". For LFR players they'd be done with all the content (as far as they see it) day/week one.

Sure. People don't care about people clearing normal on week one but for some reason still care people clearing LFR on week one. So it is okay that "some" people can clear and see the raid in one week but not others.

[Charge me Doctor]

Ignorant assumption again.
You still keep claiming that for no reason, 0nly because it isn't applying to YOU.
Real life making commitment to a duration difficult.
Hence the split wings format of LFR offering something that the longer traditional format cannot.

I've seen plenty of people who admit that they have only 2 hours of playtime for a pug, so if we wipe a lot he'll just have to leave eventually.
Being limited in time is not something that stops people from pugging, it's their own insecurities (or they don't want to raid but just AFK through the content for a mediocre reward).
No, seriously, even if blizzard do not split raid in "wings" (but i'm fairly sure they do, because, well, just look at the tomb, you have naga wing, demon wing, ghost wing and final wing, you are free to create a pug for "X wing" (kek), or join a pug and say that you'll leave after 3 bosses (or don't and just leave when you feel like it)

[Better]

Sure. People don't care about people clearing normal on week one but for some reason still care people clearing LFR on week one. So it is okay that "some" people can clear and see the raid in one week but not others.

Again, the reason there's a difference is that people that clear normal week one aren't "Done" with the raid. They will go back and progress through heroic/mythic. An LFR player (and MANY of them will even tell you this) sees killing the final boss in LFR as being done with the game for now, and often they unsub after they've killed it, because a lot of them don't like grinding the raids over and over, which is fine. Blizzard gives these players a sense of progression by releasing the wings one by one over a period of time. Blizz also gets more money, because they stay subbed longer.

[Charge me Doctor]

Again, the reason there's a difference is that people that clear normal week one aren't "Done" with the raid. They will go back and progress through heroic/mythic. An LFR player (and MANY of them will even tell you this) sees killing the final boss in LFR as being done with the game for now, and often they unsub after they've killed it, because a lot of them don't like grinding the raids over and over, which is fine. Blizzard gives these players a sense of progression by releasing the wings one by one over a period of time. Blizz also gets more money, because they stay subbed longer.

I don't get this notion, if you finish a raid fucking once you are far from "done with it". Chances are that you've got 0 upgrades from a single full run, upgrades is what drives people, they want new, powerful gear, if you are heroic raiding guild you will have to go to normal every single week until at least you've got your p4 bonus and new relics

[Nitros14]

Normal is easy, go pug it.

[Slicer299]

Why is LFR gated? Tier sets. Without gating it, all the top guilds would be in there farming it and all the try hard guilds who think they're good but aren't would be forcing their raiders to farm it to complete their tier sets. By gating the wings, it allows raiders to obtain their tier sets more naturally, removing that forced need to farm all of LFR to get them.

This was made even more true with the Titanforging system, where LFR can drop gear with a higher ilvl than base Mythic drops. Yes some people who don't need LFR will still step into LFR to try and get a specific item or two. But by gating the wings, Blizzard can stop high end raiders from getting burned out by their GMs who demand they go full clear LFR every Tuesday afternoon before raid time the first few weeks the raid is available. Because by time all of LFR is available, those raiders will have enough upgrades from their regular raids to make that irrelavent.

Blizzard experimented with removing real tier sets from LFR in WoD, which would have eventually allowed them to remove the gating had that worked out. But the LFR crowd, who has no business getting regular raid gear if they refuse to run regular raids, had a massive hissy fit and Blizzard reversed course and put the same tier sets back into LFR.

[kamuimac]

I don't get this notion, if you finish a raid fucking once you are far from "done with it". Chances are that you've got 0 upgrades from a single full run, upgrades is what drives people, they want new, powerful gear, if you are heroic raiding guild you will have to go to normal every single week until at least you've got your p4 bonus and new relics

it may shock to you but not everyone is addicted and crazy about any single possible upgrade -especially if all what you do is normal/hc - because whats the point - next tier normal will invalidate anything so why farm for months hc ?

l

[Charge me Doctor]

it may shock to you but not everyone is addicted and crazy about any single possible upgrade -especially if all what you do is normal/hc - because whats the point - next tier normal will invalidate anything so why farm for months hc ?

l

yes, it does shock me, why people even bother playing a fucking mmorpg if they do not want to progress their character further, "because it will be obsolete in some future time"
It kinda triggers me that random joe who died on first armageddon because his brain was too slow to click ice block out of his spell book gets a kill and then brags about this kill and says shit like "well i've finished ToS nothing to see there lol".

And to answer "why farm for months hc ?" - because it's enjoyable, that's why people play MMORPGs - to farm shit and get more shit to farm when they farmed enough and got bored of it

[ComputerNerd]

I've seen plenty of people who admit that they have only 2 hours of playtime for a pug, so if we wipe a lot he'll just have to leave eventually.
Being limited in time is not something that stops people from pugging, it's their own insecurities (or they don't want to raid but just AFK through the content for a mediocre reward).
No, seriously, even if blizzard do not split raid in "wings" (but i'm fairly sure they do, because, well, just look at the tomb, you have naga wing, demon wing, ghost wing and final wing, you are free to create a pug for "X wing" (kek), or join a pug and say that you'll leave after 3 bosses (or don't and just leave when you feel like it)

"plenty of people" yet you proceed to generalise everyone based on the views of only some.
The usual stupid "everyone" argument.
You don't speak for me and no amount of repetition will change that.
People who aren't you have different issues, and have genuine issues with time commitment.

It doesn't work the way you claim, simple as that.
There is a reason why LFR was successful still with hugely reduced loot, and you can't accept that.

[Charge me Doctor]

"plenty of people" yet you proceed to generalise everyone based on the views of only some.
The usual stupid "everyone" argument.
You don't speak for me and no amount of repetition will change that.
People who aren't you have different issues, and have genuine issues with time commitment.

It doesn't work the way you claim, simple as that.
There is a reason why LFR was successful still with hugely reduced loot, and you can't accept that.

I do not know what metric you use to define LFR "success", i'm not here to say that LFR sucks or should be removed or vice versa, i say that people who complain about "lack of time to pug" are just bullshitting it doesn't take more time to find a pug group than to sit in a queue, it doesn't force you stay for all bosses, it doesn't take much dedication to fight normal bosses (sure, you can't just AFK through them like you can in LFR, but AFKing during a boss fight is not playing, isn't it?)

Yes, i do not speak for everyone, but saying that normal mode 2-3 boss pug takes more time than sitting through queue into one wing of a raid is just disingenuous.
I've done that and multiple people does that, it's not the case of "everyone", it's the case of "yes, you can pug 3 bosses and fuck off if you are limited in time"

[Flarelaine]

Oh look another Jtbrig thread complaining about LFR.

There has to be one for every tier.

Go pug it.

What he said.

[Sansnom]

Again, the reason there's a difference is that people that clear normal week one aren't "Done" with the raid. They will go back and progress through heroic/mythic. An LFR player (and MANY of them will even tell you this) sees killing the final boss in LFR as being done with the game for now, and often they unsub after they've killed it, because a lot of them don't like grinding the raids over and over, which is fine. Blizzard gives these players a sense of progression by releasing the wings one by one over a period of time. Blizz also gets more money, because they stay subbed longer.

Sure sure. Many LFR players kill the final boss once and be done. Sure. Unlike you, I have not conduct a poll and ask them. But I will take your word because like many who post here, they know. They just know. They have facts.

Besides, you are talking about a different to one I original ask. Since you are unwillingly to return to the original topic, then lets just end this here.

[Deleted]

Only reason i don't do normal or heroic raiding that much is that i don't trust pugs in normal/hc and i'm bad at following raid schedules in guilds.