What made classic wow better than current?

[Eleccybubb]

And as someone that played all of Vanilla I'd be more than happy to point out something wrong if Eleccybubb was saying it. He has been pretty accurate when it comes to Vanilla and when he talks about survival hunter and how shit it was that was exactly how it was back then.

But if YOU are going to try and come here and say no one can form an opinion without experiencing it...that is just laughable ignorance. Apply that statement to other things that people do and just look at how stupid that sounds. You also said: "Reading isn't the same as experiencing. It's like reading a movie review vs seeing the movie." Better tell a sports analyst they cannot have an opinion about a sport they never played. I'll tell Mel Kiper he can't be a NFL draft analyst because he never played the game. Tell a lawyer he can't be involved in a case because he never experienced the crime.

I just used SV Hunter as an example of something I did some digging into. I will admit I've probably said some things that are wrong and if someone finds any I'll gladly admit to it.

[Jaylock]

No, you're not entitled to an opinion. Reading isn't the same as experiencing. It's like reading a movie review vs seeing the movie. But you're like Jay, just posting for reaction.

I agree with you that "Reading isn't the same as experiencing," but that doesn't mean he is not entitled to an opinion on the subject.

Someone could tell me that Morse code is the best form of communication hands down, and knowing what I know about Morse code, I have formed an opinion that its not the best form of communication and in fact I feel its inferior to the current forms of communication we have today, YET, i have never used and i NEVER plan to use Morse code.

So stop acting like you're the all knowing authority on Vanilla WoW, or how it should be a thing. If Blizzard says its not a thing and we should move on, then thats it. Move on, and stop trying to focus on the past.

Vanilla and TBC were great for their times. TBC is by far objectively the best expansion this game has ever seen, but do I want to go back and re-live the expansion? No. I want the game to progress, the story to progress but have some of the same elements of game design from that expansion, namely attunements.. and fucking remove LFR. Bring back server community and realm reputation.

[Kyanion]

I just used SV Hunter as an example of something I did some digging into. I will admit I've probably said some things that are wrong and if someone finds any I'll gladly admit to it.

Yeah that is why I said I'd be more than happy to point out something wrong if I saw it. It still cracks me up how some people in these Vanilla threads love to use statements they cannot prove (such as sub numbers) as facts and then get all butthurt when called on them.

[Jaylock]

Sure you can have an opinion. it's uninformed by any actual experience but you sound like you're used to that.

I don't need to have used Morse code to form an opinion that its not a superior form of communication to what we have today.

Same applies with his opinion. He doesn't have to had played Vanilla or TBC to form an opinion of it.

[TheHodedOne]

1.- There wasn´t group or raid finder.
2.- Community was very alive and it was more inmersive than now.
3.- Guilds actually had a porpuse.
2.- The world felt alive and big because of no flying

[clevin]

And as someone that played all of Vanilla I'd be more than happy to point out something wrong if Eleccybubb was saying it. He has been pretty accurate when it comes to Vanilla and when he talks about survival hunter and how shit it was that was exactly how it was back then.

But if YOU are going to try and come here and say no one can form an opinion without experiencing it...that is just laughable ignorance. Apply that statement to other things that people do and just look at how stupid that sounds. You also said: "Reading isn't the same as experiencing. It's like reading a movie review vs seeing the movie." Better tell a sports analyst they cannot have an opinion about a sport they never played. I'll tell Mel Kiper he can't be a NFL draft analyst because he never played the game. Tell a lawyer he can't be involved in a case because he never experienced the crime.

Your examples are amusing (and I noticed how you sidestepped countering mine). Let's see... 1) Kiper's draft picks are laughably inaccurate each year and they're not about playing the game, 2) look at the analysts next season. Notice something? A LOT of them ARE ex-players, coaches etc. Damn few of them are people who've never played. Reporters? Sure. But reporters aren't analysts. The reporters who've never played are mostly the moderators on the NFL shows. So guess what, experience does seem to be more important than not there.

Lawyers? When you need a lawyer what do you want? Someone who's fresh out of school and has read a lot of cases? Or someone who's tried and won a lot of cases? Right - you want the person with experience, not the guy who's done a lot of reading. Thanks for proving my point - did you even think before you typed these?

IF you paid any fucking attention, I said you can't have an informed opinion of what the game was like pre-LK if you didn't play it. You can read all you want and spit that back. But doing > reading. Or are you seriously arguing that reading about something is the same as experiencing it for months and years on end? Speaking of laughable....

[Eleccybubb]

Your examples are amusing (and I noticed how you sidestepped countering mine). Let's see... 1) Kiper's draft picks are laughably inaccurate each year and they're not about playing the game, 2) look at the analysts next season. Notice something? A LOT of them ARE ex-players, coaches etc. Damn few of them are people who've never played. Reporters? Sure. But reporters aren't analysts. The reporters who've never played are mostly the moderators on the NFL shows. So guess what, experience does seem to be more important than not there.

Lawyers? When you need a lawyer what do you want? Someone who's fresh out of school and has read a lot of cases? Or someone who's tried and won a lot of cases? Right - you want the person with experience, not the guy who's done a lot of reading. Thanks for proving my point - did you even think before you typed these?

IF you paid any fucking attention, I said you can't have an informed opinion of what the game was like pre-LK if you didn't play it. You can read all you want and spit that back. But doing > reading. Or are you seriously arguing that reading about something is the same as experiencing it for months and years on end? Speaking of laughable....

Don't think anyone here said reading>doing. But to claim someone is not entitled to an opinion even if they provide correct information is a silly attitude to take if you ask me. I'm open to discussing older versions with you as I said but if you don't want to then well fine by me I guess.

[Lollis]

I would love an xpac where I could spend 6-12 months leveling and 6-12 months doing end game dungeons (vanilla lvl 60 style dungeons). That's what "casual" content is, not this dumbed down zerging that the whole game had devolved into.

This is what I've been advocating for so long. The leveling needs to last at least one or two months, if you are fast.

Are you people insane? Vanilla levelling alone was a fucking nightmare chore that took ages. Taking months to get to max level is a surefire way to absolutely destroy the chance of anyone new ever wanting to play the game, never mind alts.

Many of us did the vanilla grind, it was torturous. I know plenty of people that gave up because taking weeks to get to 60 was just horrible.

[Eleccybubb]

Are you people insane? Vanilla levelling alone was a fucking nightmare chore that took ages. Taking months to get to max level is a surefire way to absolutely destroy the chance of anyone new ever wanting to play the game, never mind alts.

Many of us did the vanilla grind, it was torturous. I know plenty of people that gave up because taking weeks to get to 60 was just horrible.

This. Taking 2-3 months to ding 110 would be insane. Would kill any desire to level alts as well. There is a reason very few MMOs do that with levelling nowadays.

[Kallisto]

No your wrong, blizzard knows that legacy servers would be extremeley profitable for them, and that legacy servers would probablys take over retail servers in terms of players and profitiblilty.

No, you're wrong. Blizzard is a Business first and foremost. It's sole goal is to make money. They decided to make money through developing and releasing games. The powers that be behind Blizzard who control the money do not give a fuck about how that money comes in. If it is from Legion fine, if it is from Vanilla/BC/Wrath Legacy that's good too. More money is more money is more money.

No one in Blizzard is going to sit down and say "You know we could make money hand over fist releasing Vanilla servers. But let's not have those free dollars come running in." because that is the complete opposite of what a business is like.

This isn't some grand conspiracy just to piss off vanilla fans. It's a simply put a decision for the Blizzard executives which puts the largest amount of dollars into their accounts. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's why things like LFG/LFR and other QoLs were introduced. It was all done for the business end of things. All the work used making these dungeons, BGs, Arenas and raids but time and again only small percentage of people were seeing them. It made no business sense to make them if they were not being used by a large enough player base. So they added ways to make incentives for the casual players to go see them.

In short. Blizzard isn't on some ego trip, they're not screwing you (the vanilla legacy requesters) over, they're not ignoring you. They're business people who have run up the numbers and quite frankly found that you're just irrelevant as a business model because you just don't bring in the money. If you can prove them wrong the Shareholders would be banging down the door at Blizz HQ to make sure it gets made. That's what businesses do.

[Deleted]

theres so many servers and 80% of them are empty. why dont they close them down and change them to legacy realms instead?

Becoude legacy and his people are like that brown thing that stincks a lot

[Kyanion]

No one in Blizzard is going to sit down and say "You know we could make money hand over fist releasing Vanilla servers. But let's not have those free dollars come running in." because that is the complete opposite of what a business is like.

You are wasting your time with that one. That same argument has been used many times on him.

[Deleted]

Bring back server community and realm reputation.

you do know that is a thing of the past, right??? It will never, NEVER come back, and stop hoping. sometimes hoping is for naives. be realistic.

[Setheria]

Are you people insane? Vanilla levelling alone was a fucking nightmare chore that took ages. Taking months to get to max level is a surefire way to absolutely destroy the chance of anyone new ever wanting to play the game, never mind alts.

Many of us did the vanilla grind, it was torturous. I know plenty of people that gave up because taking weeks to get to 60 was just horrible.

To me this is a good example of how it's easy in a discussion like this to take our own experiences and preferences and project them onto everyone else. I'm sure you're right in so far as this concerns you and your own individual preferences. No doubt many others share this view.

But it's equally as valid to note that for many people, investing time and effort in leveling made it matter more. It built attachment to a character, and formed bonds with other people leveling at/around the same time and level.

So yes, vanilla leveling takes much more time. Some people liked that, even if you didn't. There are con's to that but it's disingenuous to assume it didn't have positives as well.

I'm personally playing on an Australian based Vanilla server (love that ping) and its striking how friendships and guild bonds are formed by the levelling experience.

The fact is that leveling matters, takes times and requires you to group up without simply clicking some button and being whisked away to group with people you will never see again helps in not insignificant ways. Yes, it's a shit ton less convenient, there's no denying it. But it's things like this that are key components of what made community matter.

[Klingers]

A lack of artificial time-gating. Sure some of those grinds were horrendous but you could do them at your pace, your way. I liked having that agency over my own time. Maybe I'm busy all week and want to smash a rep grind out over a weekend of mob farming? Can't do that anymore.

[Deleted]

Nothing, it's better now.
/thread

[Deleted]

The reason why I like(d) vanilla/BC better than the current wow is due to everything being new. The second reason would be because everything felt relatively meaningful and challenging. Want to do a quest? Don't even think about pulling more than 2 mobs! Leveling up and getting items? Have fun doing an hour of 'challenging' content for relative mediocre rewards.

It all just felt so much more satisfying to do back then. You had to constantly be on your toes in the world instead of charging through it without a worry of dying. Dark Souls does this right by simply being very punishing on almost every mechanic in-game. It only gets easier by learning, staying vigilant, and gear earned through slumping your way through a zone.

Do I sound elitist through this? Maybe. But I simply liked the journey toward max level back then whilst it now feels like an arbitrary grind with little challenge.

[Lollis]

A lack of artificial time-gating. Sure some of those grinds were horrendous but you could do them at your pace

Not if you wanted to be in a raiding guild you couldn't.

[Keashaa]

Are you people insane? Vanilla levelling alone was a fucking nightmare chore that took ages. Taking months to get to max level is a surefire way to absolutely destroy the chance of anyone new ever wanting to play the game, never mind alts.

Many of us did the vanilla grind, it was torturous. I know plenty of people that gave up because taking weeks to get to 60 was just horrible.

Could you please tell me the difference between:
- having fun while leveling (= power increase by level) / having fun while being max. levelled (= power increase by items)
- having a hard time finding mates for a dungeon during leveling / having a hard time finding mates for a dungeon while having shitty item level

I don't understand why people hate leveling but love stupidly chasing the carrot at max level. There is no fucking difference as long as it's fun.

[Lollis]

I'm personally playing on an Australian based Vanilla server (love that ping) and its striking how friendships and guild bonds are formed by the levelling experience.

Private servers do not compare to the classic vanilla experience. I'm not denying that the community aspect was so much better than it is now but the levelling process, with or without guild mates, was still awful. Running razorfen dungeons wasn't fun. Everyone hated gnomeregan (although I personally liked it). Uldaman was, and still is awful. The fact you might have run it with 4 other people who you liked didn't stop the levelling being plain crap. Level 28 to 40 was awful, as was 48 to 56.

Now, you might ask "why did you keep playing then", and the fact is it was the people that kept me there until 60. The levelling experience was a chore that I had to do, and while it may seemingly be just my own preference, the vast majority of vanilla players that I know and asked have felt the exact same way, we levelled for 60. At 60, your horizons opened. You could do proper pvp, you could get into dungeons that were genuinely half decent experiences, and you could raid. I grinded the cenarion circle rep with my guild mates, not because it was particularly enthralling, but because it was with people who wanted that same goal, to open ahn'qiraj.

Don't tell me the levelling experience was fun.

- - - Updated - - -

Could you please tell me the difference between:
- having fun while leveling (= power increase by level) / having fun while being max. levelled (= power increase by items)

The power increase is, and always was secondary. It is the experience that mattered the most.
I don't know if you are aware but the xp required for vanilla levelling was reduced, the 1-60 of today is nowhere near what it used to be. You had to do x instance multiple times. You had to go to x zone and do practically every single quest. You had to do x quest chain even if it was boring as hell. Do you know why so few people had level 60 alts in vanilla? It wasn't because we had more to do, it was because the grind to 60 was trash.