Havoc and Our Terrible Ceave

[Roship]

My somewhat casual guild started heroic last night, after full clearing normal on Tuesday. For our Mistress kill, I was doing around 1-1.4 million as havoc on most pulls. Tried many different builds/swapping around trinkets/legendaries.

Long story short, I eventually got the idea to switch to tank spec because of how outrageous Vengeance AoE is, and I was consistently pulling 1.4-2 million DPS, and required no healing from healers to stay alive on top of it.

Kind of ridiculous just how much Havoc sucks at cleave/sustained AoE that our tank spec can outperform it. Anyone else kind of upset with the current state of Havoc?

[Deleted]

Yeah.. bloodlet nerf. bracers nerf.fel barrage nerf, Bloodlet nerf again, fel rush nerf, nerf nerf.

We are the opposite of what we were in 7.0.

I was posting in our spanish forum how terrible is our AOE/CLEAVE.

But warlocks came crying we are easy.

We really need our bloodlet damage back, or buf greatly fel rush.

[Resentless]

Yeah.. bloodlet nerf. bracers nerf.fel barrage nerf, Bloodlet nerf again, fel rush nerf, nerf nerf.

We are the opposite of what we were in 7.0.

I was posting in our spanish forum how terrible is our AOE/CLEAVE.

But warlocks came crying we are easy.

We really need our bloodlet damage back, or buf greatly fel rush.

It's funny, cause you're right. In 7.0-7.1 we were the best cleave in the game, but with kinda terrible single target without the ring. Now we do pretty amazing single target burst and great mass aoe, but our cleave sucks balls.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Use fel barrage obviously, it's better now. If you don't have the t20 2pc you can use the bracers and bloodlet, they're still good. Not viable if you have the t20 2pc though, but the 2pc does makes your aoe stronger since blade dance crits almost everytime. On top of that there's still foti, and beam. Make sure you use chaos nova as much as possible to get soul fragmets and lower eye beam's cooldown.

Our cleave is still good, just not the strongest...

[Resentless]

Use fel barrage obviously, it's better now. If you don't have the t20 2pc you can use the bracers and bloodlet, they're still good. Not viable if you have the t20 2pc though, but the 2pc does makes your aoe stronger since blade dance crits almost everytime. On top of that there's still foti, and beam. Make sure you use chaos cleave as much as possible to get soul fragmets and lower eye beam's cooldown.

Our cleave is still good, just not the strongest...

Think you meant chaos nova or do we run demonic appetite now?

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Think you meant chaos nova or do we run demonic appetite now?

Yeah i meant chaos nova.

[Sarevokcz]

Use fel barrage obviously, it's better now. If you don't have the t20 2pc you can use the bracers and bloodlet, they're still good. Not viable if you have the t20 2pc though, but the 2pc does makes your aoe stronger since blade dance crits almost everytime. On top of that there's still foti, and beam. Make sure you use chaos cleave as much as possible to get soul fragmets and lower eye beam's cooldown.

Our cleave is still good, just not the strongest...

fel barrage is extremely unreliable tho. you never have guarantee you will have it for the next spawn, at which point you wonder why bother, when you already have two aiblities, that also arent up for every spawn, the old version was better in that regard.

and regarding t20 and blade dance, one: blade dance does shitty aoe damage for its cost and cooldown and doesnt scale well and two: blocks us from picking ACTUAL cleaving talents.

our cleave is horrendous after the bracer nerf, you can pick any boss with some ammount of cleaving and it will be the same story on each and every one of them, DH down there, between the bottom specs.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

fel barrage is extremely unreliable tho. you never have guarantee you will have it for the next spawn, at which point you wonder why bother, when you already have two aiblities, that also arent up for every spawn, the old version was better in that regard.

and regarding t20 and blade dance, one: blade dance does shitty aoe damage for its cost and cooldown and doesnt scale well and two: blocks us from picking ACTUAL cleaving talents.

our cleave is horrendous after the bracer nerf, you can pick any boss with some ammount of cleaving and it will be the same story on each and every one of them, DH down there, between the bottom specs.

Continue to suck then bud, i'm just trying to help.

[Revan0608]

Continue to suck then bud, i'm just trying to help.

apparently we all have to continue sucking and not getting a legendary every 2 weeks except you my dude, you're the master of this game and this class !

[Dextar]

Chaos Cleave should be buffed to 25%, this would not only give us a bigger cleave but also make the class ring really nice with T20 4pc.

[Deleted]

It's funny, cause you're right. In 7.0-7.1 we were the best cleave in the game, but with kinda terrible single target without the ring. Now we do pretty amazing single target burst and great mass aoe, but our cleave sucks balls.

So what you are saying is, you want to do everything well?

[Revan0608]

So what you are saying is, you want to do everything well?

yeah, we're not warriors/hunters/mages/warlocks after all, being good at everything is reserved for them

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

apparently we all have to continue sucking and not getting a legendary every 2 weeks except you my dude, you're the master of this game and this class !

Just an update, i got another legendary yesterday. The archimonde thing, 3rd one since the patch came out.

OT: I'm just offering my feedback. I'm by no means the greatest player out there, although i do believe to be fairly above avg. Havoc aoe is not what it used to be, but people are not playing it the right way neither.

[Roship]

Use fel barrage obviously, it's better now. If you don't have the t20 2pc you can use the bracers and bloodlet, they're still good. Not viable if you have the t20 2pc though, but the 2pc does makes your aoe stronger since blade dance crits almost everytime. On top of that there's still foti, and beam. Make sure you use chaos nova as much as possible to get soul fragmets and lower eye beam's cooldown.

Our cleave is still good, just not the strongest...

I tried a fel barrage build, bloodlet, chaos cleave, demonic, momentum/felrush, and different mish-mashes of those, while using the proper legendaries for each build. But nothing remotely compares to our tank aoe/cleave. It's pretty pathetic.

[Resentless]

So what you are saying is, you want to do everything well?

Believe it or not, I'm not even complaining about this cleave thing. I'm sure bloodlet+bracers will do just fine for me if I ever even decide to respec (im not a mythic raider) but I did find it funny how our role was somewhat reversed from launch. Just pointing it out, is all

[Deleted]

Havoc ST is still one of the best there is, the problem is that in ToS there are less bosses that play to our strengths than in NH, this doesn't mean that DH is crap it just means we won't be top of the meter, if you look at a fight like mistress for example with a lot of consistent cleave DH will be on the lower end if you look at the overall damage but if you look at the boss damage it should be pretty high. The game isn't how it used to be in that there used to be buffs, so it meant guilds would often bring an enhancement shaman just for wind fury totem as it meant the entire group would do more damage, his isn't the case any more, if there was no advantage to having a DH in the raid whatsoever then guilds like Method wouldn't use one, and yet there is a DH in every WF kill so far. So basically what I'm saying is just chill with this constant moaning about our cleave damage and remember that that is not our forte so in a raid with a lot of cleave fights we will be low on Warcraft logs rankings, but that does not mean the class is bad.

[Deix-EU]

Havoc ST is still one of the best there is, the problem is that in ToS there are less bosses that play to our strengths than in NH, this doesn't mean that DH is crap it just means we won't be top of the meter, if you look at a fight like mistress for example with a lot of consistent cleave DH will be on the lower end if you look at the overall damage but if you look at the boss damage it should be pretty high. The game isn't how it used to be in that there used to be buffs, so it meant guilds would often bring an enhancement shaman just for wind fury totem as it meant the entire group would do more damage, his isn't the case any more, if there was no advantage to having a DH in the raid whatsoever then guilds like Method wouldn't use one, and yet there is a DH in every WF kill so far. So basically what I'm saying is just chill with this constant moaning about our cleave damage and remember that that is not our forte so in a raid with a lot of cleave fights we will be low on Warcraft logs rankings, but that does not mean the class is bad.

And now it's time for raid leaders to accept a DH need to be nearly constantly on boss. Next step cause it's not everyone.

[Kals]

Chaos Cleave should be buffed to 25%, this would not only give us a bigger cleave but also make the class ring really nice with T20 4pc.

Except ring would then be mandatory just due to the sheer damage increase Chaos Cleave would provide.

[Deix-EU]

Except ring would then be mandatory just due to the sheer damage increase Chaos Cleave would provide.

And ? There will always be a "mandatory".

[gaaara]

It's funny, cause you're right. In 7.0-7.1 we were the best cleave in the game, but with kinda terrible single target without the ring. Now we do pretty amazing single target burst and great mass aoe, but our cleave sucks balls.

remember when our blade dance talent in our artifact tree gave us 10% dmg boost / target...glorious days :O