Missouri to lower minimum wage from $10 to $7.70

[Teraparte]

Hey guys, I am like totally a conservative and stuff. Listen, don't sweat it because your suffering will only last a few decades. I just wanna try and take away some healthcare and lower wages, but before you get mad remember we are the party for white people so we are friends and on the same team, right? No matter how bad things get remember you are whites, so at least you have that. We are also Christians just like the slaves on the plantations of old... oops, I mean the most awesome sword wielding Knights of medieval Europe... just keep working, keep on praying and reading your Bible and when you die, you'll survive that death and get to have fun in heaven for ever and ever. I'm telling you, streets paved with gold, mansions and the cars never run out of gas. It's gonna be great. Believe me.

[LedZeppelin]

Yeah, because the time without minimum wage laws was so great for the works. It was nice to be paid in "money" that can only be accepted at the company store.

As for your second point, I'm calling bullshit. Provide a source.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carries.../#5bed8bfb11bb

I thought this was common knowledge

[solidstate101]

Just moved from St. Louis. Lots of uppity people across the river. Glad I'm out.

[hakujinbakasama]

This is not an option for all areas. Well paying work is often scarce even if you have qualification.

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Care to explain or just going to be smug?

Basic market Economics speaks of price floors (this applies to labor). Specifically, the minimal amount a worker will accept to work. If an Emoloyeer will not meet that amount then the Employer has no Employees and thus no Business.

Since Rent costs (ie cost of living for the employee) the reserve wage is set by the individual (more likely area) cost of living.

The reason why some Economics teaches or supports no minimum wage is simply because wage is a contractual agreement set between the employee and employer and should be dictated by competition of the market.

If there is a wage floor (minimum wage) there is little incentive for wage competition between employers (think Wal-Mart and Target.) If there is no minimum then each employer has to wage compete on an open market with the other.

It's complex in some respects and simple in the other.

If two similar jobs are open at two companies at the same rate, and all else equal, then the choice is irrelevant to the worker. However if company A pays more than company B, and all else equal, then the worker is incentivized to work at Company A. This is potentially bad for Company B because the "best workers" are now encouraged to move employment to Company A. So on and so forth.

[Glorious Leader]

One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.

This is actually incredibe stupid on a number of levels. Putting a man on the moon was an enormous feat of government planning and intervention when the government used to be forward thinking and somewhat progressive.

Missouri is backwards and this is further proof.

[Aquinan]

Keep those poor people downtrodden!

[Themius]

That's always a problem with the left, you see. They want everything here and now. "World is unfair, have to fix it NOW"; "low wages are slavery, need to help the people NOW". If you made the wrong choices in your life and make a shit living, you can either improve yourself or if you can't make sure your kids make better choices. Minimal wage mostly just causes more people to earn minimum wage, instead of some earning more and some less. And it causes employers to hire fewer people and demand experience. It's a short-term populist solution, that might sound good, but does not work.

So... say a major asset management firm where people were making 200k+ closed in some place and those people couldn't find Jobs and were forced to take up a minimum wage job in the meantime you mean to tell me they just made the wrong choices and should have made better choices?

[Zubacz]

So... say a major asset management firm where people were making 200k+ closed in some place and those people couldn't find Jobs and were forced to take up a minimum wage job in the meantime you mean to tell me they just made the wrong choices and should have made better choices?

Of course. If you are a good worker, your resume and references will allow you to find a similar or better job. Minimum wage in the meantime is fine, because your partner is making money and you've put money aside in case of emergency. And if you have no family yet, you just move to where you can find a good job. Shit happens in life. Not being prepared for it is a choice.

[Adam Jensen]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carries.../#5bed8bfb11bb

I thought this was common knowledge

And therefore any modern attempt to push for a minimum wage must be racist right?

[Ragedaug]

And assuming any business would just fire employees or cut their hours for the simple principle of "saving money" begs the question as to why, if they have the flexibility to reduce labor costs, they haven't done so already. What undergirds this assumption is that firing employees or cutting hours will save more money through avoiding higher wages than it will cost in revenue from reduced sales (fewer people working = fewer people selling), which it much more than likely won't at the levels we're talking about.

Because not all small business owners are bastards? I mean are you going off an assumption that once you have are able to hire another person you automatically become a bastion of greed and evil? If so, I can tell you that's not correct. There are some small business owners who are good people.

Often times small business owners run in the red, and based on incoming business already have to cut employees and hours. These guys aren't running some giant profit margin. Typically any profits they get are used to grow their business and hire more employees. There are also many times that those owners have months where they make less money than some of the people they employ.

They often know all their employees and have, to one degree or another, a personal relationship with them. Their goal is to maintain some semblance of a profit and they'll pay their employees as well as their business model allows. For some of those employees, that's still going to be at or close to minimum wage. If you force them to increase wages by 50-100%, they will have no choice but to cut hours or jobs. They don't have a scrooge mcduck vault out back loaded with swimming gold. You force them to increase wages by 50-100% and they not only have to cut employee hours/jobs, they also lose growth potential.

This type of legislation is small business killers, and all you'll be left with are the giant mega corporations which you hate, who don't care one way or the other about you or your minimum wage hike, as they are offshoring the majority of their labor regardless, for pennies on the dollar.

[downnola]

The alleged link between raising the minimum wage and increases in unemployment are pretty tenuous. Every meta-analysis shows, at best, a minuscule increase in low-wage unemployment when the minimum wage has been increased in the past, and virtually the only study that shows a substantial link - the recent one out of Oregon - hasn't gone through the peer review process.

We're talking small changes in labor costs that nearly every business that utilizes low-wage labor can easily absorb, and many budget for, as such jobs typically have pretty high turnover as it is.

And assuming any business would just fire employees or cut their hours for the simple principle of "saving money" begs the question as to why, if they have the flexibility to reduce labor costs, they haven't done so already. What undergirds this assumption is that firing employees or cutting hours will save more money through avoiding higher wages than it will cost in revenue from reduced sales (fewer people working = fewer people selling), which it much more than likely won't at the levels we're talking about.

It's hard to isolate the real impact of minimum wage, and one reason for that is because many states increase the minimum wage in small intervals to begin with. It seems self-evident that the data you're likely to find will be small too, but the link is there. Why stagger the increases at all if the impact is marginal at best? I think the answer is obvious, because people are aware that bigger increases have bigger impacts on minimum wage employment. The place I think it's most glaring is in teenage employment rates, which always suffer when the minimum wage is increased.

Why aren't businesses cutting hours and letting employees go? They already are, and have been for quite some time. Like I said earlier in the thread, minimum wage jobs have been slowly replaced with automation and self-service, and will continue regardless of increases and decreases in mandated wages. My main argument when I get into this topic is why focus on a higher minimum wage at all, when something like a universal income, or negative income tax, could help min-wage workers while avoiding the unemployment argument altogether. The Rand Paul types are going to fight you no matter what you try to do for min wage workers. Why not just go for best solution instead of trying to meet them halfway, which they will never do.

[Osmeric]

Missouri isn't lowering its minimum wage, it's preventing localities from raising it.

[Deleted]

Since when are minimum wage jobs something you stay at forever.. Isn't minimum wage jobs suppose to be for teenageers, young adults..
Someones first job.. or a job on the side whilst attending College/university

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

Why is it always conservatives that are trying to take money away from the poor? Isn't the "good book" pretty clear on it's stance of the poor?

Conservative, Atheist here.

Don't give two shits about this supposed "good book" and if you can't get more than a minimum wage job, than you are being paid market value for your skills and ability.

[NineSpine]

Conservative, Atheist here.

Don't give two shits about this supposed "good book" and if you can't get more than a minimum wage job, than you are being paid market value for your skills and ability.

Actually, there's pretty much universal agreement in the field of economics that no skill and low skill labor both have their pay rates artificially pushed downward by market distortions, meaning they are lower than the true market value, but hey, let's not let economics get in the way of moralizing and trying to use wages as a tool to spank people that you have deemed undesirable.

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Since when are minimum wage jobs something you stay at forever.. Isn't minimum wage jobs suppose to be for teenageers, young adults..
Someones first job.. or a job on the side whilst attending College/university

That's a nice fantasy, but that's not reality.

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It's hard to isolate the real impact of minimum wage, and one reason for that is because many states increase the minimum wage in small intervals to begin with. It seems self-evident that the data you're likely to find will be small too, but the link is there. Why stagger the increases at all if the impact is marginal at best? I think the answer is obvious, because people are aware that bigger increases have bigger impacts on minimum wage employment. The place I think it's most glaring is in teenage employment rates, which always suffer when the minimum wage is increased.

Why aren't businesses cutting hours and letting employees go? They already are, and have been for quite some time. Like I said earlier in the thread, minimum wage jobs have been slowly replaced with automation and self-service, and will continue regardless of increases and decreases in mandated wages. My main argument when I get into this topic is why focus on a higher minimum wage at all, when something like a universal income, or negative income tax, could help min-wage workers while avoiding the unemployment argument altogether. The Rand Paul types are going to fight you no matter what you try to do for min wage workers. Why not just go for best solution instead of trying to meet them halfway, which they will never do.

Just one point I think is worth noting: The decrease in teenage employment due to minimum wage increases may just be because their parents are making more money now, leading to fewer teens NEEDING to work. This is reflected in the fact that overall unemployment doesn't seem effected.

[Moralgy]

Since when are minimum wage jobs something you stay at forever.. Isn't minimum wage jobs suppose to be for teenageers, young adults..
Someones first job.. or a job on the side whilst attending College/university

Maybe a few decades ago, but minimum wage is what most get stuck at since there is little to no upward mobility anymore. I agree with people that minimum wage shouldn't pay for fancy things, but it should be an actual living wage that allows you to living and have the basics in life.

[NineSpine]

Because not all small business owners are bastards? I mean are you going off an assumption that once you have are able to hire another person you automatically become a bastion of greed and evil? If so, I can tell you that's not correct. There are some small business owners who are good people.

Often times small business owners run in the red, and based on incoming business already have to cut employees and hours. These guys aren't running some giant profit margin. Typically any profits they get are used to grow their business and hire more employees. There are also many times that those owners have months where they make less money than some of the people they employ.

They often know all their employees and have, to one degree or another, a personal relationship with them. Their goal is to maintain some semblance of a profit and they'll pay their employees as well as their business model allows. For some of those employees, that's still going to be at or close to minimum wage. If you force them to increase wages by 50-100%, they will have no choice but to cut hours or jobs. They don't have a scrooge mcduck vault out back loaded with swimming gold. You force them to increase wages by 50-100% and they not only have to cut employee hours/jobs, they also lose growth potential.

This type of legislation is small business killers, and all you'll be left with are the giant mega corporations which you hate, who don't care one way or the other about you or your minimum wage hike, as they are offshoring the majority of their labor regardless, for pennies on the dollar.

But we have the numbers, and minimum wage increases just don't correlate with higher unemployment rates. That's just a fact. As a business owner myself, I can tell you that your argument makes no sense, especially for low wage employees who are hired because they are NEEDED. A store needs a certain number of people to operate, and they will ALWAYS minimize that, regardless of the cost per employee. Nobody is hiring extra people for shits and giggles. A store hires people because it NEEDS them to function.

[downnola]

Just one point I think is worth noting: The decrease in teenage employment due to minimum wage increases may just be because their parents are making more money now, leading to fewer teens NEEDING to work. This is reflected in the fact that overall unemployment doesn't seem effected.

It could also be due to the fact that more high school graduates are in college, so I'm certainly not saying it isn't complicated.

[Orange Joe]

I'm surprised the US even has a minimum wage anywhere. You earn what your employer is willing to pay you. If you aren't happy about it, find another job or make your own company. If your life situation (family) does not allow you to search for another job, you better make sure your children don't make the same mistakes you did and acquire marketable skills.

How are you going to get your kids skills when you can't afford to put them in school?

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Missouri isn't lowering its minimum wage, it's preventing localities from raising it.

If they aren't lowering it. How is it going from $10 an hour to $7something an hour? Don't know about you but 7 is lower than 10 to me.

[Grapemask]

Conservative, Atheist here.

Don't give two shits about this supposed "good book" and if you can't get more than a minimum wage job, than you are being paid market value for your skills and ability.

Objectively false, like most of what you post. Or The_Donald's followers in general post, really.