"We have already won" [Spoilers inside]

[Magical Mudcrab]

Doesn't have to be, the rule of "permanent demon death" states, that it has to be either A: in the Twisting Nether or B: In a completely fel corrupted place. Guess what Argus is.

Except that's not a rule which has ever held up. Outlands was in the Twisting Nether as far as the in-game map cares (if you fly over the chasms that would mean you're off the map, you're in the Twisting Nether), and we see some of the named demons (most notably, Kazzak in WoD) return.

[Dubhglas]

IMO, I think people are headcanoning Sargeras as even having toes. Every incarnation of him in official artwork has him lacking a physical body. He's made of constellations and magic and shit. He's made of constellations. I think the Titans aren't beings with form. They're omnipotent celestial objects, and Sarg is no different. Much like the avatar of Sargeras, I think these datamined models of the Titans are either holograms, memories or avatars. I don't think the Titans are even capable of being stabbed in the toe.

The reason I don't agree with that assessment is that the Titans are the absolute pinnacle of Arcane Order. There is nothing more ordered than a solid, physical state, thus it wouldn't really make sense for them to be some ethereal, vague form. Look at all of their constructs and creations; they are solid, logical, rigid beings that are resistant to chaos and change. The Old Gods had to put a curse on their creations to create modern life. Even when the Titans expelled their own souls in the final battle with Sargeras, they immediately sought out solid hosts for them, which wouldn't make sense as ethereal beings.

They're also not really omnipotent, as there seemed to be plenty of things in the universe that they were unaware of, such as the Void Lord incursions into the physical realm via Old Gods, and there are plenty of things they can't do. Sargeras can't even divine the actual location of Azeroth against the backdrop of the Great Dark Beyond and thus has to work through intermediaries until he can figure this out. He's powerful enough in the sense that I'd imagine he could get their pretty damn fast if he knew the direct location, but not powerful enough to actually divine that information

[frogger237]

My bet is on Sarg trying to get through the gateway, and then Illidan/someone else shutting it on him, cutting him in half and killing him.

it beats us somehow killing him by Dpsing his toes.

He fell in love with the world soul of Azeroth. It wont be his toes that he will stick thru the portal first.

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So are they abstract like Elune (as far as we know) or are they just keepers of Ulduar models scaled up so big we can talk to their toes?

They are like transformers except magical planets instead of robotic cars.

[Friendlyimmolation]

He fell in love with the world soul of Azeroth. It wont be his toes that he will stick thru the portal first.

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They are like transformers except magical planets instead of robotic cars.

Obviously his arm, reaching to respectfully hold her hand.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

My bet is on Sarg trying to get through the gateway, and then Illidan/someone else shutting it on him, cutting him in half and killing him.

it beats us somehow killing him by Dpsing his toes.

I think the Sargerai Keystone's rift is enough to deal significant damage to Sargeras, but kill him? Thats another story.

[Venziir]

Except that's not a rule which has ever held up. Outlands was in the Twisting Nether as far as the in-game map cares (if you fly over the chasms that would mean you're off the map, you're in the Twisting Nether), and we see some of the named demons (most notably, Kazzak in WoD) return.

Outland is, however, older than that rule. Older gameplay isn't automatically corrected by newly written lore.

[Lupinemancer]

Why do people think that demons will permanently die on Argus?

It is NOT the Twisting Nether.

A demon is fundamentally a creature whose soul is bound to the Twisting Nether, and as such returns to that plane upon death. They can be truly killed only inside the Twisting Nether, or in places where its chaotic energies leak.

Why do people still not get this after it has been stated 10000 times?

Argus is such a world!

[Magical Mudcrab]

Outland is, however, older than that rule. Older gameplay isn't automatically corrected by newly written lore.

Yes, but Kazak's return came in Tanaan Jungle after the decision was made (the idea came in with Archimonde, and the rationale for his return).

[Bahm]

The infamous Richard A. Knaak seemed to believe otherwise.

Aside from that, we have Aman'Thul squishing Y'shaarj like a bug.

That was also back when the pantheon had to band together to seal away the OGs one by one, with an Old God having managed to kill a titan.

Then they slowly started nerfing the OGs in power and we have "titans are planets lul"

[Eucep]

I just want Sargeras to step through that massive portal, then Azeroth to just spin a little and with a single swing of her fist just knocks him back, past Argus and into the twisting nether, then she goes back to sleep. Also then image of Illidan with jaw on the floor.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

So Kil'jaeden is not dead?
He fulfilled his destiny by luring and deceiving the champions of Azeroth to Argus to kill them all off in one single glorious day..?

[Deleted]

My theory remains that Sargeras will show up in orbit to stop us, once we start ruining his toys on his most important planet, and then Illidan's plans come to fruition, and Argus is blown up like a fel grenade to take out Sargeras, with whole continents sent crashing into him.

Wouldn't be the end of Sargeras, as he's an expert at possession, and his soul would surely find a new host. This is Warcraft, after all. But it would end the threat of his planet-sized body. Which would be a major victory. Hell, with the portal to Azeroth open, it's even likely that he finds a new host on Azeroth. I vote for Odyn.

Either way, a Sargeras forced to be cunning is more interesting to me than a Sargeras big enough to punch a planet apart. Destroying his Titan form would be a great move, and nowhere would it be more credible than on Azeroth, given the power we've gathered with us, and the planet being too vital to him to just destroy to take us out.

You do know Sargeras his finger is probably bigger than Argus, his blade seems to be around 8-10 times the length of a planet.

He can pretty much use his blade as a racket and send Argus back to Illidan LOL.

[mizeri]

i imagine us vs sarg fight to be kind of like this

[Deleted]

I think the Sargerai Keystone's rift is enough to deal significant damage to Sargeras, but kill him? Thats another story.

Don't think the keystone has enough power to hurt Sargeras either.

Gotta remember Sargeras is immune to fel, which is the main energy behind the Sargerite keystone.

[Caerule]

You do know Sargeras his finger is probably bigger than Argus, his blade seems to be around 8-10 times the length of a planet.

He can pretty much use his blade as a racket and send Argus back to Illidan LOL.

Sargeras isn't bigger than a planet. He is a planet, taking humanoid form. That's what Titans are.

Also his blade has been shattered in his first fight with Aggramar, when Aggramar found out what he was doing. It's why depictions of him since then have been with a broken blade. That part is true both in the old and new Titan lore.

He and Argus should be of similar mass. I don't know what happens to you when I blow a bomb that weighs as much as you up next to you, but I become dust, and so does my house.

[Dire]

Why do people still not get this after it has been stated 10000 times?

Argus is such a world!

Because that a huge load of sh*t to be honest. Its a cop out to what was considered the most formidable force in the cosmos.

Lore wise its weak to say this broken ass place is a hub of ANY kind of power - let alone that having said 'power' resulting in the possibility of killing those demons who otherwise would be risen. hokey crap.

[Aquamonkey]

That was also back when the pantheon had to band together to seal away the OGs one by one, with an Old God having managed to kill a titan.

That was never the case. It was a 1v1 between C'Thun and an unnamed titan. It was a double KO, neither is stated to have died.

Then they slowly started nerfing the OGs in power and we have "titans are planets lul"

OGs were never all that powerful. We killed a fully awakened and free C'Thun. We killed an almost completely free Yogg. Y'Shaarj was originally stated to have been killed by the Mogu. Chronicle actually buffed Y'Shaarj.

[derpkitteh]

So Kil'jaeden is not dead? [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/LECpfGw.jpg[IMG]
He fulfilled his destiny by luring and deceiving the champions of Azeroth to Argus to kill them all off in one single glorious day..?

see, this is what i'm wondering.

maybe the nether seeps into the orbit around argus though. who knows i guess.