Everyone is talking Tinkerer what about...

[Darktbs]

Necromancers are DKs and DKs are Necromancers. If you want to play a dark summoning caster class, you could play Warlocks who simply summon demons instead of undead. However, as it stands DKs already do everything a Necromancer would do.

And this is why everyone talks about Tinkers, because other suggestions are simply rehashes of classes/specs that we currently have. A Tinker class would actually be something different than what we currently have.

Roll an Unholy DK and talent into Clawing Shadows. For all intents and purposes you'll be a ranged spec.

Love the Double standards.

I can say the same with "If you want to be a Tinker go roll a Engineer" but i guess i would be triggering some people with that.

Now, would Necros be similar to Dks?Yes, just like Priests and Paladins.Two different classes with similar themes and complete different playstyles, hell, i can even bring Dhs and Warlocks, both share the demonic theme but guess what, two different classes.

"But Priests have shadow."A single unique spec with other two that share themes with the Paladin, attack the enemy with the light and heal allies with the Light, the difference?One has spells that fit the caster and other with spells that fit melle and for a long time both shared two spells, Holy light and Flash of Light.

- - - Updated - - -

So wait, why couldn't necromancer be a dk spec? What unsolvable gameplay issues are there?

Probably the type of armor.

Lets suppose Necro become a dk spec, if they wear plate, people would complain about not looking like a necromancer, if they allow the spec to wear cloth, we will have Dks having to farm two sets every tier.

[Deleted]

and yet you forgot the most important ones!
#1 tauren rogues and
#2 shadow mages!

[Echoherb]

Roll an Unholy DK and talent into Clawing Shadows. For all intents and purposes you'll be a ranged spec.

No, you'd be playing a melee spec with some ranged abilities. A Death Knight is a plate wielding melee class. The argument against necromancers because Dk's are "ranged" classes is a really silly one. Are Demon Hunters ranged classes that are too similar to warlocks because of Eyebeam and throw glaive?

[Deleted]

It's a cool idea but since some classes don't have an obvious thematic fit, it won't happen.

Well they dont need to NEED to give a 4e spec to every class if they would do it at some point.
I mean when Druids got there 4e spec the rest did not get it.

[Boogums]

Love the Double standards.

I can say the same with "If you want to be a Tinker go roll a Engineer" but i guess i would be triggering some people with that.

Now, would Necros be similar to Dks?Yes, just like Priests and Paladins.Two different classes with similar themes and complete different playstyles, hell, i can even bring Dhs and Warlocks, both share the demonic theme but guess what, two different classes.

"But Priests have shadow."A single unique spec with other two that share themes with the Paladin, attack the enemy with the light and heal allies with the Light, the difference?One has spells that fit the caster and other with spells that fit melle and for a long time both shared two spells, Holy light and Flash of Light.

- - - Updated - - -



Probably the type of armor.

Lets suppose Necro become a dk spec, if they wear plate, people would complain about not looking like a necromancer, if they allow the spec to wear cloth, we will have Dks having to farm two sets every tier.

Paladin armor, and the Necromancer's armor in d2 and d3 has proven that you can make plate looking necro armor (and plate looking cloth armor)

[Thimagryn]

DKs are still a melee class though even though they cast spells. A necro class would presumably be a cloth ranged spec, and the fact that it's ranged would distinguish it enough from DK to be it's own class even though they would both cast necromantic spells IMO.

It's not really enough to distinguish themselves considering we have 3 classes that effectively cover gameplay aspects of the Necro. Unless Blizzard does something drastic like give them a healing spec (which is unique but unfitting for Necromancer gameplay fantasy) all they have is one playstyle - Ranged magic DPS. Shadow Priests already deal with shadow and fear, Warlocks deal with curses, Mages have Frost and have even absorbed some of the Lich's spells. DK's pretty much took the rest under as a supplement to their melee kit.

Unlike Demon Hunters, Necromancers lack a unique enough hook to separate themselves apart from existing classes. Even in lore, they are effectively Mages who learn Dark Magic, and we have plenty of classes that cover that aspect.

[Xeriv]

Originally I liked the concept of tinkerers. I had previously liked the GW2 engineers. That said, the blind devotion to the exclusion of all other ideas that some of the tinkerer advocates have had over the past while has really killed the concept for me, and now I'd rather not see them.

What I'd like to see now is an idea based off something someone else brought up: Dragon Knights. My idea on this:

Theme would be similar to the spartan/amazon look.

Would wear mail armor (scales on a dragon)

Shield + pole arm (spear), similar to old Titan grip off tank setup from a couple expansions back

Specs:

Tank - used bronze flight abilities to slow/delay enemy attacks, and rewind damage taken

Melee dps - bring back a bit of the gladiator style from warriors, and add draconic styled magic

Ranged dps - blue flight empowered spear throwing

Add in some dragon styled abilities like teleporting through the emerald dream for mobility, sleep as cc from the green flight. Maybe some earth/magma based defensive cooldowns from black flight.

Would fit in with whatever might be going on with Chromie.

Variation: replace melee dps with a red flight based healing spec since we have lots of melee already.

[Teriz]

Love the Double standards.

I can say the same with "If you want to be a Tinker go roll a Engineer" but i guess i would be triggering some people with that.

Except for the fact that I'm comparing similarities between two classes and you're comparing similarities between a class vs a profession. Professions don't serve the same purpose as classes, thus any overlap is inconsequential in regards to game balance. I can never max out Engineering and then go to a group or raid and fulfill a DPS, Tanking, or healing role. Why? Because professions aren't designed for that purpose. Professions are designed to craft goods to sell to other players.

A Necromancer doing the exact same thing a DK is doing has vast consequences for both classes and hurts class diversity and design space. Considering that Blizzard wouldn't let Warlocks have one ability in common with Demon Hunters, the idea that they will bring in a class which is essentially a ranged DK is laughable.

Now, would Necros be similar to Dks?Yes, just like Priests and Paladins.Two different classes with similar themes and complete different playstyles, hell, i can even bring Dhs and Warlocks, both share the demonic theme but guess what, two different classes.

Except Priests aren't similar to Paladins. Paladins use Holy magic for tanking and melee DPS. Priests use holy only for healing, and it is combined with Shadow magic. Necromancers would use Necromancy for DPS and Tanking, just like DKs do currently. Necromancers use bone and flesh as weapons, just like DKs do currently. Necromancers use diseases and corruption to weaken their foes, just like DKs do currently. To make this worse, DKs are actually melee/ranged hybrids in that they have quite a lot of abilities that they can perform from range, so even the argument that DKs are melee and Necros would be ranged is a bad one.

"But Priests have shadow."A single unique spec with other two that share themes with the Paladin, attack the enemy with the light and heal allies with the Light, the difference?One has spells that fit the caster and other with spells that fit melle and for a long time both shared two spells, Holy light and Flash of Light.

See above. Shadow spells exist in every priest spec except for Holy. Additionally Priest don't have a holy DPS or Tanking spec while Paladins do.

Lets suppose Necro become a dk spec, if they wear plate, people would complain about not looking like a necromancer, if they allow the spec to wear cloth, we will have Dks having to farm two sets every tier.

Necromancer is already a DK spec, it's called Unholy. It is the DK spec that focuses on raising and controlling the dead and spreading plagues. In fact, the entire DK class deals with various aspects of Necromancy in WoW, because the class has various elements of the old Undead faction from WC3.

[Zyky]

As a WoW player for almost a decade I've always felt the game to offer at least 1 class/spec for everyone but at the same time the class selection has been very limited as in there aren't that many classes (12 currently). I get the balancing and tuning part is a pain in the ass but comparing WoW to certain other MMORPGs it feels like we could have a more broad variety of classes. I don't see why we would need any new races at the moment as it makes no sense there already are that many intellegent species on one 1 planet.

Here are few suggestions on classes and specs...

-Necromancer (class since dks can't be casters due to gameplay issues)
-Blade Master (warrior spec)
-Ninja (rogue spec) -- why not a naruto class lol
-Samurai (rogue/warrior spec)
-Shadow (paladin spec)

We literally have all of that crap in game already, last thing we need is garbage variations that Blizzard won't tune correctly.

[Mudip]

I'd love to see Ethereal as a new race.

[Skoll Shorties]

I don't think i'd personally want another spec right now. I'd much rather have another race(s).

[Deleted]

-Ninja (rogue spec) -- why not a naruto class lol

Maybe cause the twerps in Naruto don't resemble ninja that much As for ninjas, the plan was for subtlety rogue to be a ninja by another name. It just didn't work. But the ninja in FFXIV is super awesome. I am in love with the changes they have made for Stormblood.

[Echoherb]

I don't think i'd personally want another spec right now. I'd much rather have another race(s).

Considering the last race we got were fat bears, and before that we got furries and ugly goblins, I'd be ok with new races at this point.

[Jahaga]

So why are you not discussing, but complain about a complaint??

Well, someone has to point out the stupidity. Why are you complaining about a complaint on your complaint?

I think this is done. Are you going to contribute to the discussion or keep trolling?

So let's discuss.

All those classes are already represented in some form by existing classes.

Done?

Lots of people said the exact same thing about Demon Hunters all the way back through BC. They're very similar to Rogues and Hunters.

You're gonna have some overlapping roles, no doubt. Doesn't mean everything's ruled out. Besides, he did described Necromancers as DK casters.

[jettzypher]

Originally I liked the concept of tinkerers. I had previously liked the GW2 engineers. That said, the blind devotion to the exclusion of all other ideas that some of the tinkerer advocates have had over the past while has really killed the concept for me, and now I'd rather not see them.

What I'd like to see now is an idea based off something someone else brought up: Dragon Knights. My idea on this:

Theme would be similar to the spartan/amazon look.

Would wear mail armor (scales on a dragon)

Shield + pole arm (spear), similar to old Titan grip off tank setup from a couple expansions back

Specs:

Tank - used bronze flight abilities to slow/delay enemy attacks, and rewind damage taken

Melee dps - bring back a bit of the gladiator style from warriors, and add draconic styled magic

Ranged dps - blue flight empowered spear throwing

Add in some dragon styled abilities like teleporting through the emerald dream for mobility, sleep as cc from the green flight. Maybe some earth/magma based defensive cooldowns from black flight.

Would fit in with whatever might be going on with Chromie.

Variation: replace melee dps with a red flight based healing spec since we have lots of melee already.

I don't really get into these kinds of topics, but this doesn't seem like a terrible idea.

[Echoherb]

Lots of people said the exact same thing about Demon Hunters all the way back through BC. They're very similar to Rogues and Hunters.

You're gonna have some overlapping roles, no doubt. Doesn't mean everything's ruled out. Besides, he did described Necromancers as DK casters.

Let's not forget all the people the said DH wouldn't work because of Demo warlocks already having meta and similar abilities. DH's are very similar in playstyle to monks, didn't stop blizzard from designing DH's that way.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally I liked the concept of tinkerers. I had previously liked the GW2 engineers. That said, the blind devotion to the exclusion of all other ideas that some of the tinkerer advocates have had over the past while has really killed the concept for me, and now I'd rather not see them.

What I'd like to see now is an idea based off something someone else brought up: Dragon Knights. My idea on this:

Theme would be similar to the spartan/amazon look.

Would wear mail armor (scales on a dragon)

Shield + pole arm (spear), similar to old Titan grip off tank setup from a couple expansions back

Specs:

Tank - used bronze flight abilities to slow/delay enemy attacks, and rewind damage taken

Melee dps - bring back a bit of the gladiator style from warriors, and add draconic styled magic

Ranged dps - blue flight empowered spear throwing

Add in some dragon styled abilities like teleporting through the emerald dream for mobility, sleep as cc from the green flight. Maybe some earth/magma based defensive cooldowns from black flight.

Would fit in with whatever might be going on with Chromie.

Variation: replace melee dps with a red flight based healing spec since we have lots of melee already.

Cool idea, though I feel like a ranged spec would be a bit forced here. Blizzard adding another melee and tank only class though would be a bit out of the question.

[Darktbs]

Except for the fact that I'm comparing similarities between two classes and you're comparing similarities between a class vs a profession. Professions don't serve the same purpose as classes, thus any overlap is inconsequential in regards to game balance. I can never max out Engineering and then go to a group or raid and fulfill a DPS, Tanking, or healing role. Why? Because professions aren't designed for that purpose. Professions are designed to craft goods to sell to other players.

Despite said profession having a kit of Dps, Healing and tanking and are not forbbiden from use in PvE.Using your logic of Clawing Shadows, if you have something Slighty similar to the concept, its fair game and doesn't need another class based around it.

A Necromancer doing the exact same thing a DK is doing has vast consequences for both classes and hurts class diversity and design space. Considering that Blizzard wouldn't let Warlocks have one ability in common with Demon Hunters, the idea that they will bring in a class which is essentially a ranged DK is laughable.

Holy paladins and Holy Priests?

Except Priests aren't similar to Paladins. Paladins use Holy magic for tanking and melee DPS. Priests use holy only for healing, and it is combined with Shadow magic. Necromancers would use Necromancy for DPS and Tanking, just like DKs do currently. Necromancers use bone and flesh as weapons, just like DKs do currently. Necromancers use diseases and corruption to weaken their foes, just like DKs do currently. To make this worse, DKs are actually melee/ranged hybrids in that they have quite a lot of abilities that they can perform from range, so even the argument that DKs are melee and Necros would be ranged is a bad one.

THEME!The same way Priests and Paladins use Holy Magic, Dh and Warlock use Fel Magic Why its a problem that Dks and Necro use Necrotic magic?
And Dks?Ranged?

Having 2 spells(3 with a Talent) doesn't make a Dk Ranged, the same way Mages having Frost Nova and Arcane Explosion doesn't make them Melle.I wanna see someone standing 30 yards of the boss as a UH Dk and still do good dps.

See above. Shadow spells exist in every priest spec except for Holy. Additionally Priest don't have a holy DPS or Tanking spec while Paladins do.

Its something that made them unique, something you are completely ignoring in a possible Necro class design, maybe spells that connect with the Realm of Shadows, souls, sacrifices.

And do you actually play any of these classes?Priest don't have a Holy dps?Disc priests is both Holy and Shadow with the majority of its spells being Holy and its a Dps/Healer spec.

Necromancer is already a DK spec, it's called Unholy. It is the DK spec that focuses on raising and controlling the dead and spreading plagues. In fact, the entire DK class deals with various aspects of Necromancy in WoW, because the class has various elements of the old Undead faction from WC3.

Of course they do, again, Just like Paladins and Priests , Dk and Warlocks.They use the same type of Magic, in their case, Necro magic.And there is still many aspects that were removed or never implemented, turning into a Lich, sacrifices, Souls and so on.

[DarthMonk79]

How are 12 classes, most with at least 3 specs, not a lot to choose from. I mean my little brother and his friends play DnD and that's more classes than most forms of DnD. I also play Neverwinter Nights and Guild Wars, that's more classes than both of those. I mean what MMO out there has more than 12 classes, I can't remember hearing of any. Then you add in the spec's and there's technically 36 Variations of those classes to play, what more do you need. 36 options with multiple races for each option.

[Teriz]

Despite said profession having a kit of Dps, Healing and tanking and are not forbbiden from use in PvE.Using your logic of Clawing Shadows, if you have something Slighty similar to the concept, its fair game and doesn't need another class based around it.

Except the difference being that a DK is actually a Necromancer. There is no "slight similarity" between the two concepts. Blizzard actually used the Necromancer concept when designing the Death Knight. Your issue here is that you want a ranged Necromancer instead of the melee Necromancer the game currently has, which is akin to saying that an Enhacenemnt and a Elemental Shaman should be in different classes.

Holy paladins and Holy Priests?

Which are two specs that happen to share the same school of magic. You're advocating for a duplicate of the DK class in ranged form.

THEME!The same way Priests and Paladins use Holy Magic, Dh and Warlock use Fel Magic Why its a problem that Dks and Necro use Necrotic magic?
And Dks?Ranged?

Again, the problem is that Paladins and Priests aren't using Holy magic the same way, and Paladins don't use Shadow at all. Paladins are using holy magic to infuse their weapons and armor to make them more effective melee fighters. Their ability to heal is simply a result of the healing attributes of holy magic. Priests don't have a Holy DPS or Tank spec. Paladins do. Paladins don't have a shadow DPS spec, Priests do. The themes aren't similar either; The priest class deals with the duality between Shadow and Holy magic. Paladins are champions of the light who use Holy magic to smite evil.

Please explain what makes a Necromancer different from a Death Knight outside of range. Please explain how a Necromancer would play differently from a DK outside of range. I'd LOVE to hear it.

Its something that made them unique, something you are completely ignoring in a possible Necro class design, maybe spells that connect with the Realm of Shadows, souls, sacrifices.

Except Warlocks already deal with shadows, souls, and sacrifices, which is why DKs don't touch it.

And do you actually play any of these classes?Priest don't have a Holy dps?Disc priests is both Holy and Shadow with the majority of its spells being Holy and its a Dps/Healer spec.

I'm well aware of Disc's damaging abilities. Disc uses damage to heal, which makes it a healing spec.

Of course they do, again, Just like Paladins and Priests , Dk and Warlocks.They use the same type of Magic, in their case, Necro magic.And there is still many aspects that were removed or never implemented, turning into a Lich, sacrifices, Souls and so on.

Here's the problem: The main draw of a Necromancy class is the ability to raise dead, use bone armor/weapons, and spread plagues. DKs already do that.

[Dnusha]

Everyone is talking Tinkerer

it's more like

some people on this particular forum