At least 101 shot, 15 killed during violent Fourth of July weekend in Chicago

[ItachiZaku]

Yep, it was lit up in Chiraq this weekend.

[Themius]

So you're saying that if a kids childhood hero is someone who openly encourages crime and murder, then it wont have an effect on them? A kid whose parents also take part in this same exaltation of the worst society has to offer? A surrounding that is hostile to anyone not like them, no matter their intentions? A group that labels anyone who has the audacity to get up and better themselves as a traitor? One that prides itself on having no respect for ownership, property, or in many cases basic rights?

I grew up in this sort of culture. I got out. I know its generations deep and rooted in age old issues, but I also know that at this point it has become a culture of its own, and more we ignore it the worst things will get because its disgustingly bigoted, wretchedly inclusive, and horribly resistant to change and general betterment.

The idea that one bettering themselves is a traitor is part of most poor people's culture when they feel they're all "stuck in this together" like the one person going on to higher education being made fun of... it happened to my white friend who is basically from a very poor very hick like area.

[Citizen T]

Your statement is irrelevant. Whining about Chicago's gun laws or its violence does nothing. Guns are very easy to obtain whether its some gang-banger or paranoid citizen wanting to protect themselves. Some additional regulations could stop this but the Republicans will not do that. Its almost like they want anyone, criminal or not, to have easy access to guns. If the city of Chicago does not want guns, they will cheerfully let a neighbouring state do the dirty work of keeping everyone well-armed.

Pray tell, what ingenious ideas do you have that will reduce the access of firearms to criminals (and those that have criminal intent) that does not impose upon the law abiding citizen's right to own/carry (i.e. keep and bear) a firearm?

[Themius]

So you acknowledge the issue isn't with guns. It is with the people and the culture.

Guns are easy to access in the area...

[helebelemon]

Your statement is irrelevant. Whining about Chicago's gun laws or its violence does nothing. Guns are very easy to obtain whether its some gang-banger or paranoid citizen wanting to protect themselves. Some additional regulations could stop this but the Republicans will not do that. Its almost like they want anyone, criminal or not, to have easy access to guns. If the city of Chicago does not want guns, they will cheerfully let a neighbouring state do the dirty work of keeping everyone well-armed.

No regulation is going to stop this. Regulation, if anything, will stop the guys shooting up theaters, churches, etc. Career criminals don't buy guns from the local gun store.

[MasterOfNone]

Chicago(primarily the South suburbs) has a deeply rooted problem with guns. While it has strict gun laws, Indiana to the east...does not.

say it isnt so? in a gun free city right?

[Citizen T]

They affect everybody.
The problem is that there are so many guns floating around everyone and their grandpa can get them anywhere, anytime.

Everyone and their grandpa cannot get them anywhere legally! Instead of making another law to regulate gun ownership, how about we make a law to ban murder. If this law doesn't work, then regulating the tool used for that murder isn't going to stop murder.

[Ivanstone]

Pray tell, what ingenious ideas do you have that will reduce the access of firearms to criminals (and those that have criminal intent) that does not impose upon the law abiding citizen's right to own/carry (i.e. keep and bear) a firearm?

Well then fuck your law abiding citizen's right to own/carry. Period.

Guns are easy to get and difficult to trace. They should be neither.

- - - Updated - - -

No regulation is going to stop this. Regulation, if anything, will stop the guys shooting up theaters, churches, etc. Career criminals don't buy guns from the local gun store.

They do buy them from your local gun store. That's the point. Yes, there are a minority of gun stores that do a shitty job of back ground checks and turn a blind eye to straw purchases. But you, the GOP and the NRA turn a blind eye to this.

[Nihilist74]

They probably have a horrible economy in Chicago. Not very many good entry level jobs. Their state is bankrupt. This makes people hopeless so they sell drugs and shoot each other.
My city was starting to get this way in the early 90's. The economy dramatically improved really fast and a lot of it ended. If people can get a legitimate job and have a decent existence, they are less inclined to commit violent crimes.

[satimy]

Well then fuck your law abiding citizen's right to own/carry. Period.

Guns are easy to get and difficult to trace. They should be neither.

- - - Updated - - -



They do buy them from your local gun store. That's the point. Yes, there are a minority of gun stores that do a shitty job of back ground checks and turn a blind eye to straw purchases. But you, the GOP and the NRA turn a blind eye to this.

Funny everyone has guns where I live and shootings are super rare, must just be a deplorable rural thing to not shoot people

[Arbiter]

9 pages of people who seem to think that the guns being used in these crimes are even legally obtained in the first place. Most gun crimes in cities like Chicago occur using illegally obtained weapons. It's not a political issue and no law is going to stop people who don't care about the laws.

I mean really do most of you actually think that criminals are walking into gun stores and legally purchasing these guns?

Don't even know how or why this thread got instantly turned into yet another political debate over rep vs dem.

[satimy]

Well then fuck your law abiding citizen's right to own/carry. Period.

Guns are easy to get and difficult to trace. They should be neither.

- - - Updated - - -



They do buy them from your local gun store. That's the point. Yes, there are a minority of gun stores that do a shitty job of back ground checks and turn a blind eye to straw purchases. But you, the GOP and the NRA turn a blind eye to this.

Chicago is super segregated, as long as you avoid the bad areas it's super nice.

[Citizen T]

Well then fuck your law abiding citizen's right to own/carry. Period.

Guns are easy to get and difficult to trace. They should be neither.

- - - Updated - - -



They do buy them from your local gun store. That's the point. Yes, there are a minority of gun stores that do a shitty job of back ground checks and turn a blind eye to straw purchases. But you, the GOP and the NRA turn a blind eye to this.

There is no reason to become vulgar. If you vehemence for the Second Amendment is so strong, then I suggest you spend your time/money to support efforts to amend the Constitution rather than being vulgar towards someone that just supports citizen rights enumerated in the Constitution.

[satimy]

9 pages of people who seem to think that the guns being used in these crimes are even legally obtained in the first place. Most gun crimes in cities like Chicago occur using illegally obtained weapons. It's not a political issue and no law is going to stop people who don't care about the laws.

I mean really do most of you actually think that criminals are walking into gun stores and legally purchasing these guns?

Doesn't that prove that local gun laws are useless for deterring criminals

[slickwilly]

That is a very cavalier attitude when over one hundred people are shot and 15 people are killed.

Chicago has the toughest gun laws in America I believe.

The environment that is being created by those in public service, who are predominately Democrats, need to be held accountable for this.

Plenty of other places to go get a gun easily. The entire country needs to the tough gun laws to even have a chance.

[Stormspellz]

For the third time in this thread. It is illegal for a resident of Illinois (Chicago) to purchase a gun in Indiana unless they have it shipped to a FFL dealer in IL. All gun laws in IL apply when they pick up this purchase. Now if you're saying that criminals can still do this, you're right. Criminals will break any law you put in place to control gun ownership though. So the only people restricted by new laws are law abiding citizens.

doesn't change anything I said, let alone in relation to the person I was responding to.

[Ivanstone]

There is no reason to become vulgar. If you vehemence for the Second Amendment is so strong, then I suggest you spend your time/money to support efforts to amend the Constitution rather than being vulgar towards someone that just supports citizen rights enumerated in the Constitution.

Sure attack my language but not my statement. Good job.

Let's consider the infamous "Fast and Furious" gun walking scandal. The GOP made a lot of noise about how the ATF and the Obama administration fucked up and got honest police officers killed by criminals.

You know who they didn't blame? The gun store owners selling weapons to hobo's who had no criminal record but a mysterious amount of cash. I wonder how easy it is for Mexican gangs to get weapons in Arizona now? Every illegal gun transaction began with a legal transaction.

[Stormspellz]

They probably have a horrible economy in Chicago. Not very many good entry level jobs. Their state is bankrupt. This makes people hopeless so they sell drugs and shoot each other.
My city was starting to get this way in the early 90's. The economy dramatically improved really fast and a lot of it ended. If people can get a legitimate job and have a decent existence, they are less inclined to commit violent crimes.

its more of a cash flow problem then a horrible economy for the state. 80s and 90s politicians (on both sides but mostly dems) used things like pensions funds to essentially buy votes and influence, now those checks are coming due while up to this point the can was kicked down the road in the typical politician fashion

[petej0]

Sure attack my language but not my statement. Good job.

Let's consider the infamous "Fast and Furious" gun walking scandal. The GOP made a lot of noise about how the ATF and the Obama administration fucked up and got honest police officers killed by criminals.

You know who they didn't blame? The gun store owners selling weapons to hobo's who had no criminal record but a mysterious amount of cash. I wonder how easy it is for Mexican gangs to get weapons in Arizona now? Every illegal gun transaction began with a legal transaction.

And there are laws against that. What happened? The laws were broken. Broken by who? Criminals. Criminals will do whatever it takes to get firearms or sell firearms to people who shouldnt have them.

Oops I misread. Ok fine what regulation would you put in place to stop this?

[helebelemon]

Well then fuck your law abiding citizen's right to own/carry. Period.

Guns are easy to get and difficult to trace. They should be neither.

- - - Updated - - -



They do buy them from your local gun store. That's the point. Yes, there are a minority of gun stores that do a shitty job of back ground checks and turn a blind eye to straw purchases. But you, the GOP and the NRA turn a blind eye to this.

I think you're mistaking me for the many in this thread that burst hysterically into tears at the notion of more stringent gun control. Heck, having once lived in an a city that made news for its idiotic open carry idiots standing around restaurants and "mad-dawging" people, I absolutely welcome it and genuinely hope cops gun them down for obviously trying to intimidate them and their community. If they took away the lovely amendment, I couldn't care less.

Regardless, I grew up in the ghetto. People don't get their guns from the gun store--they steal it from their relatives or buy it illegally from other hoodrats.