Tomb of Sargeras Progression Thread

[WhatIsLegion]

Oh right, this nonsense that Blizzard didn't give a fuck about.

I personally don't think it would have changed much in regards to it, but still an exploit that we know was used.

But it was rather interesting that according to Viklund he felt like he needed to use the exploit because Kuznam was always extra hard on when he failed.

[OrcsRLame]

I personally don't think it would have changed much in regards to it, but still an exploit that we know was used.

But it was rather interesting that according to Viklund he felt like he needed to use the exploit because Kuznam was always extra hard on when he failed.

Ability bugs like that are such a common thing that Blizzard never punishes using them unless it's some blatantly unintended crazy effect, like Dark Sim on Sinestra or Saronite Bombs on normal Lich King. Hand of the Protector is STILL bugged on the last boss of BRH. I reported that shit in beta and it still does infinite healing on live servers.

Also, people only consider things like this an exploit if it fits their narrative. Serenity will be labeled as exploiters for all time because of a little extra insanity gen, but Paragon is held up as gods for getting 17 feral druids to exploit heroic Nef by snapshotting the dots with the buff he gave you.

Me, I consider everything to be fair game unless it's absolutely ridiculous to even defend it, like Exodus evade bugging the adds on Yogg-0. I don't even blame Paragon for the snapshotting bug. Though that one is a bit borderline with the obvious impact it had on the boss.

And yes, it sucks that Kuznam was a hard ass. I wouldn't blame Viklund for what he did even if that wasn't true though.

[TheEaterofSouls]

Why are mythic raiders complaining about really hard bosses? I don't recall hardcore players in vanilla complaining about C'thun or muru's difficulty? Wonder if Mythic tomb is up there with those classically hard raids?

[OrcsRLame]

Why are mythic raiders complaining about really hard bosses? I don't recall hardcore players in vanilla complaining about C'thun or muru's difficulty? Wonder if Mythic tomb is up there with those classically hard raids?

Not sure if troll...

Vanilla and TBC bosses were a joke compared to mythic ToS. The MoP/WoD/Legion era, plus heroic Rag from Firelands, are several orders of magnitude harder than anything that had come before.

[Tennis]

We should enjoy this race as it could be the last competitive one on the mythic stage. It seems like top guilds are dropping like flies.

[WhatIsLegion]

Ability bugs like that are such a common thing that Blizzard never punishes using them unless it's some blatantly unintended crazy effect, like Dark Sim on Sinestra or Saronite Bombs on normal Lich King. Hand of the Protector is STILL bugged on the last boss of BRH. I reported that shit in beta and it still does infinite healing on live servers.

Also, people only consider things like this an exploit if it fits their narrative. Serenity will be labeled as exploiters for all time because of a little extra insanity gen, but Paragon is held up as gods for getting 17 feral druids to exploit heroic Nef by snapshotting the dots with the buff he gave you.

Me, I consider everything to be fair game unless it's absolutely ridiculous to even defend it, like Exodus evade bugging the adds on Yogg-0. I don't even blame Paragon for the snapshotting bug. Though that one is a bit borderline with the obvious impact it had on the boss.

And yes, it sucks that Kuznam was a hard ass. I wouldn't blame Viklund for what he did even if that wasn't true though.

I agree with most of what you said, but it's something that all guilds going for world first and top guilds use. There's always something going on that can be or is considered an exploit. No top guild is clean from this, it's just the severity of the exploits and how far they are willing to push it.

[Twilight Cultist]

Why are mythic raiders complaining about really hard bosses? I don't recall hardcore players in vanilla complaining about C'thun or muru's difficulty? Wonder if Mythic tomb is up there with those classically hard raids?

It doesn't mean it didn't happen because you don't remember it. Vanilla/TBC was a long time ago. People today talk about how old school WoW was praised and the best period it WoW, but people have always complained: Example

On the topic of the difficulty of ToS compared to old school raids, I feel it is a pointless discussion. It is like comparing CGI in old movies to modern movies. They were good for their time, but they just don't hold up today.

[Deleted]

You literally didn't read what I said and came to a completely inane reductionist conclusion.

First off, Serenity did not get 12+ hours on Gul'dan, they got 6. Sloot said it on his stream today. They may have killed Elisande 12+ hours before Exorsus, but they too have to sleep. They got 6 hours of actual prog before Exorsus saw it.

Not really a plausible. Numbers show 12+ hours, there is no proof of anything less. Numbers don't lie.

[Skibly]

Also, people only consider things like this an exploit if it fits their narrative. Serenity will be labeled as exploiters for all time because of a little extra insanity gen, but Paragon is held up as gods for getting 17 feral druids to exploit heroic Nef by snapshotting the dots with the buff he gave you.

I find it so strange that there are still people that don't understand that the use of rip wasn't an exploit. There was no bug or exploit, the ability worked exactly as you would expect, and exactly as listed. The buff simply increased the damage of the next attack, whatever the attack was. Rip itself simply did a lot of damage (when stacking mastery, which they did) and when paired with Tiger's Fury. Many other abilities did similar damage, but were less controllable. Part of the reason they chose druids over the other obvious contenders (DKs and mages) was for their utility in other areas.

[Deleted]

you seem to mistake advantage for free victory, having 50-100 pulls more on a boss than other guilds is huge, but when serenity has 350 pulls and exorsus 200 and something, they just got massively outplayed on guldan.

Your reading comprehension is clearly not up to par. The point I was making was skill > having more time on a boss.

[Deleted]

something is missing.... "mathematically impossible"

[OrcsRLame]

Not really a plausible. Numbers show 12+ hours, there is no proof of anything less. Numbers don't lie.

People sleep.

- - - Updated - - -

I find it so strange that there are still people that don't understand that the use of rip wasn't an exploit. There was no bug or exploit, the ability worked exactly as you would expect, and exactly as listed. The buff simply increased the damage of the next attack, whatever the attack was. Rip itself simply did a lot of damage (when stacking mastery, which they did) and when paired with Tiger's Fury. Many other abilities did similar damage, but were less controllable. Part of the reason they chose druids over the other obvious contenders (DKs and mages) was for their utility in other areas.

Didn't Blizzard hotfix it so the buff didn't snapshot anymore?

[Deleted]

Not sure if troll...

Vanilla and TBC bosses were a joke compared to mythic ToS. The MoP/WoD/Legion era, plus heroic Rag from Firelands, are several orders of magnitude harder than anything that had come before.

tuning makes bosses hard, not mechanics. You can learn handle mechanics by practice, but to learn bypassing overtuning has its limitations. This is why even the most complex encounter dies usually immediately and overtuned bosses are usually the road blocks (I like the term content blocker a little bit more).

But this logic is also questionable, because any boss has mechanics, sometimes more sometimes less. In all cases the tuning of the mechanics/boss abilites brings the difficulty. But blizzard logic tends more often to overtune uncomplex bosses to compensate the lack of "mechanics/abilities". Bosses like Avatar happend quite rarely compared to the numbers of bosses already existed (but at the end even avatar is not really mechanic heavy).

[Skibly]

Didn't Blizzard hotfix it so the buff didn't snapshot anymore?

I don't think so. I know they stopped some abilities from being affected by the buff. Either way, it worked exactly as you would expect. It was like any other effect in a fight; you just pick the class that uses the effect the best. People just have this weird idea that it behaved differently for rip, or that they could just roll the buffed dot for the entire fight, or that it only snapshot (snapshat?) for rip when in reality it "only" snapshot for every ability.

[Inuyaki]

Why are mythic raiders complaining about really hard bosses? I don't recall hardcore players in vanilla complaining about C'thun or muru's difficulty? Wonder if Mythic tomb is up there with those classically hard raids?

I am pretty sure Ion himself complained about C'Thun being mathematically impossible back then...
But it's always convenient to forget these things

Also old raids were not hard, pls stop spreading this misinformation.

[Nitros14]

Why are mythic raiders complaining about really hard bosses? I don't recall hardcore players in vanilla complaining about C'thun or muru's difficulty? Wonder if Mythic tomb is up there with those classically hard raids?

Har har.

Selective memory I guess.

You have 14 Days. If after that time AQ is not properly tuned, I am deleting my characters, and cancelling all of my accounts. The rest of my guild will follow suit, as will several other guilds and people that play WoW.

To be brief, I did not work my ass off, jumping through your idiotic hoops with my friends and guildmates, so I could go to a zone where there is zero fucking playtesting. That's right not one fucking time did you incompetent fucks even try C'thun. EVEN if we ignore the bullshit that is Viscidus, FUCK YOU GUYS. Seriously, FUCK YOU.

I cannot believe this... right now I'm just so pissed off. I am sitting here in Ahn Quiraj, by myself because everyone in the guild is fucking bored of playtesting your broken shit. Don't you people have ANY FUCKING DECENCY? TIGOLE WHY DON'T YOU STOP COUNTING YOUR MONEY AND START ISSUING ORDERS?

The tragic irony of creating the ultimate cockblock encounter in the form of the C'thun which is completely fucking broken beyond recognition. Why not just put a big fucking sign on him that says HAHA FUCK YOU at least then we wouldn't waste our time.

Whoever came up with this sheer *fisting* of an encounter can go fuck themselves. Do me a favor so I don't waste my guild's time on this kind of jackass shit-fest again, send me an email at mailto:daudengnome@fa-gaming.com when you decide to A) Implement an encounter that wasn't designed by a retarded chimp chained to a cubicle B) Get a Quality Assuarance Department C) Actually beta test the fucking thing and D) Patch it live. And please for god's sake -- do it in the order I laid out for you. Don't worry, I won't charge you a consulting fee on that one. And for good luck you might as well E) Pull your heads out of your asses. While you're at it rename the game to BetaCraft since you've used up your alotted false advertising karma on BWL and collect 4 million bear asses scheme of '06.

Fix the C'thun encounter. Fix Ouro. Rethink your time-sink bullshit. Fix all the buggy motherfucking encounters (I suggest you let whoever redid the Twin Emps one do this since that dude apparently laid off the crack the rest of you were smoking). Fix the MOTHER FUCKING 10 MINUTE CORPSE RUN. Fix AQ (just guessing it's fucked up considering your track record). Don't have the resources to fix this stuff? Move the ENTIRE Naxxramas team over to fixing Ahn Quiraj AND DO IT NOW. If you don't fix Ahn Quiraj, you jackassess will be the only ones playing the Naxxramas.

14 Days.... after that this site will change from one of the top WoW sites on the internet to the most popular Solitaire fan site on the internet. I'm done playing ball with you useless fuckers... it's my turn.

[Dangg]

Why are mythic raiders complaining about really hard bosses? I don't recall hardcore players in vanilla complaining about C'thun or muru's difficulty? Wonder if Mythic tomb is up there with those classically hard raids?

Makes it especially hilarious that you selected C'thun out of all bosses, as he caused the famous DnT rant about treatning to quit the game.


^see above

[SinR]

looking back at that D&T rant... Wow were we really that angry back then?

[Lockula]

That rant some things just don't change it seems all that much.

[Dangg]

looking back at that D&T rant... Wow were we really that angry back then?

http://web.archive.org/web/200906080...ite/arc27.html

It's actually based on a rant written by Tigole at the time he played for the EQ guild Legacy of Steel.

DnT just thought it was fitting to use to address him now that he's a WoW developer and on the other side.