Blizzard killed Mythic+ dungeons.

[Alphatorg]

it shouldnt but it does - its hillarious how best addition to the game in last few years turned into its own complete abomination that serves atm only raiders for the weekly 15 chest while for people for whom it was aimed its compeltly overtuned to the rewards it drops.

i dont doubt even for a second that when next patch lands it will become much more accesible in some way but atm ? its fucked up system only giving rewards to mythic raiders and nobody else.

Don't kid yourself. You don't need to kill any ToS bosses, let alone mythic to be geared enough for +15. Just get a bit better and you might be able to do it, too.

Really is a shame what has happened to M+. The old system wasn't perfect, but now it's just terrible.

Yeah. Endlessly grinding low keys was such a great concept. How dare these developers to make higher keys rewarding.

[Arph]

Yeah. Endlessly grinding low keys was such a great concept. How dare these developers to make higher keys rewarding.

But they didn't make them rewarding... They nerfed the rewards on how much gear you get and how hard the difficulty is. There is 0 point to pushing past a 15+ like they had hoped people would. Because the difficulty increase is so extreme now that the time investment isn't worth it at all. Just running keys with guildies now I've seen multiple 930+ pieces drop in 10-12 keys (which are much easier). Why grind for a key and then spend the extra amount of time in a higher dungeon just to risk depleting it or not even completing it or getting a useless key when you can just do easier instances at a faster rate?

[Fatelessguy]

But they didn't make them rewarding... They nerfed the rewards on how much gear you get and how hard the difficulty is. There is 0 point to pushing past a 15+ like they had hoped people would. Because the difficulty increase is so extreme now that the time investment isn't worth it at all. Just running keys with guildies now I've seen multiple 930+ pieces drop in 10-12 keys (which are much easier). Why grind for a key and then spend the extra amount of time in a higher dungeon just to risk depleting it or not even completing it or getting a useless key when you can just do easier instances at a faster rate?

That's just wrong. There's no point in running 10-12 keys as far as 15's are as easy to do in time even with hard mods, as 10-12. 17-18 is where it gets harder with smth like tyrannical+griv. And as far as 15's base ilvl is much higher, there's a much better chance of getting good forged items ur group needs.

As for me, new system is better because you can just farm keys with ur own group.

[chronia]

it shouldnt but it does - its hillarious how best addition to the game in last few years turned into its own complete abomination that serves atm only raiders for the weekly 15 chest while for people for whom it was aimed its compeltly overtuned to the rewards it drops.

i dont doubt even for a second that when next patch lands it will become much more accesible in some way but atm ? its fucked up system only giving rewards to mythic raiders and nobody else.

there are dozens of things that blizzard could do so that the system issnt so wrong - like simplest put some sort of badges that allow you slowly to work towards gear after completion even if chests drop shit (and yes i mean exackly like in FF) but nooo we cant have nice things in game because "it would affect raiding" - toxic mentality of shit devs.

This is just not true though, you can easily do 15's with characters <910, you dont have to be a mythic raider for that, with the new system where key's don't deplete this is even made easier. Now ofc, a fresh grp of 910's might not make a 15 in time straight way as there is a learning curve and you need to know the runs and the affixes and how they affect the way you pull in each dungeon. But thats just practise and not a gear issue. The last 2 weeks i geared up one of my alt from 900 to 913 Mostly in M+ (also did 2x ToS normal) in a guild group of similar ilvl characters and we did just fine, made atleast one 15 each week and several 13's and 14's. And that alt never set a foot in Mythic raids this expansion.

If ppl want effortless 930 chest loot when <920, yeah that might be hard atm as boot groups are less of a thing and group in the finder will take the best geared that applies, but if you just setup a good (guild / friends) group and start actually doing the runs and work your key's up even players that never have set a foot in Mythic raids should easily be able to do a 15 each week and grap some nice 900+ loot on the way there.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

...if you just setup a good (guild / friends) group and start actually doing the runs and work your key's up even players that never have set a foot in Mythic raids should easily be able to do a 15 each week and grap some nice 900+ loot on the way there.

So much is about teamwork. I feel like this was true when I was in my old guild with the same M+ regulars each week. Now I'm in a new guild, still getting to know people, and it is so much more hit-and-miss. Figuring out who can be trusted to execute assignments, earning their trust, and learning to work together all takes time. Meanwhile I try to keep in touch with friends I've run with in the past and use them to fill the gaps.

I feel like I am under-achieving when it comes to M+. Back in 7.1.5, when I first earned my KSM, I helped carry guild mates to get theirs and felt like I was on top of things. Now I am becoming aware of the ratings system and how much more some have accomplished (with gear no better than mine) and feel like I should be doing more. I have cut back some of my raid commitments (alt runs) so I can have a night or two each week to focus on M+.

[Marrilaife]

I feel like I am under-achieving when it comes to M+. Back in 7.1.5, when I first earned my KSM, I helped carry guild mates to get theirs and felt like I was on top of things. Now I am becoming aware of the ratings system and how much more some have accomplished (with gear no better than mine) and feel like I should be doing more. I have cut back some of my raid commitments (alt runs) so I can have a night or two each week to focus on M+.

Why don't you just do what you find fun instead of thinking what you "should" be doing. If you feel like you'd enjoy more m+ pushing than raiding on alts, then by all means, go do it, but the way you worded it sounds as if you feel compelled instead of excited about it.

[netherflame]

What's the point of running them now, apart maybe from one +15 for the weekly chest.

I used to chain run M+10 like an autist. It was fun for me and it gave me something to do with stable outcome (farm some item if you really wanted it).

Now everything is fucked over:

- difficulty upped
- loot drop nerfed
- loot ilevel the same
- key / time / depletion changes are for the worst
- less people care about it (less LFG pool)

Why?


EDIT: Well, 2 weeks later, M+ is still a total clusterfuck

Just incase you got a halls of valor / cathedral / black rook hold / lower kara keystone this week, don't worry... it'll be fine! Theres totally a lot of people who are willing to do your key. And with the new removal of 2 and 3 chests there is double the amount of applicants.

Im absolutely astounded how Blizzard would think this was a good idea

As a raider, I enjoy m+ now because I don't need to grind them. I can log in do my 15 for the week and go enjoy the rest of the game, not be locked into running the same dungeon I've already cleared 50 times because theres still ap on the table.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

You're all being silly. According to Blizzard, the Mythic dungeons are a HUGE SUCCESS! In fact, they're the single most successful thing Legion has given -- nay, gifted -- us! Blizzard has told us so, ergo, it must be an objective, unquestionable, undoubtable fact! After all, they have a few people who sit around a table who decide these things, and they are far, far more intelligent, insightful, cunning, handsome, and sexually desirable by all women than any lowly peons who play the game ever could be. So if they tell us something, it must be true.

(Am I doing this right, Trump supporters/Creationists/Flat Earthers/Anti-Vaxxers/etc.?)
Infracted

[Deleted]

My enthusiasm of doing them has waned for some reason...they are now difficult in very annoying ways with those affixes and the dreaded "what key did you get?" after each run, just to hear "lower, kthxbye"

[Exigent]

You're all being silly. According to Blizzard, the Mythic dungeons are a HUGE SUCCESS! In fact, they're the single most successful thing Legion has given -- nay, gifted -- us! Blizzard has told us so, ergo, it must be an objective, unquestionable, undoubtable fact! After all, they have a few people who sit around a table who decide these things, and they are far, far more intelligent, insightful, cunning, handsome, and sexually desirable by all women than any lowly peons who play the game ever could be. So if they tell us something, it must be true.

(Am I doing this right, Trump supporters/Creationists/Flat Earthers/Anti-Vaxxers/etc.?)

As much as I'm with you in my disdain for that list of groups you gave at the end... you're being a bit silly, no? From my perspective, the Mythic+ system has been incredibly successful in that they've kept players in dungeons far longer than in previous expansions. The very idea that old content remains even remotely relevant is a huge step in the right direction. It's not novel or amazing... I'm not here to boast about Blizzard revolutionizing anything. That said, on the whole it's been very effective at keeping dungeons useful and I hope Blizzard iterates on this system moving forward.

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My enthusiasm of doing them has waned for some reason...they are now difficult in very annoying ways with those affixes and the dreaded "what key did you get?" after each run, just to hear "lower, kthxbye"

The issue I see is that the rewards aren't perfectly aligned with the effort. The best item level loot should not max out at 910 for a 15. The players who would benefit from 910 gear likely cannot complete a 15 reliably right now (and by that I mean, push a key successfully and then complete the 15 on or near to time). The players who can actually complete higher than 15s reliably would need substantially better gear incentive to warrant it.

In my opinion, if Blizzard has any hope of offering M+ as a viable alternative to raiding then the bleeding edge should offer roughly equivalent gear (in item level). In other words (and I'm spit-balling here, don't take these numbers as actual suggestions), if you complete a +25 you should probably receive Mythic raiding level gear base. The exact break points on what key awards Mythic raiding level gear is arguable... but personally I think a +25 is around as difficult as Mythic Tomb is currently, if not more so.

[Zantera]

I think m+ are still in a good place. Still have fun doing them. Depending on the week and what affixes it is, I might do more or less than usual, but also depending on guildies. This week for example I ended up getting my 15s done on 2 characters and also did an additional 10-12 m+ dungeons outside of those. Last week I think I only did 4 or 5 dungeons. Next week is looking good with Sanguine-Volcanic (I believe?) so will probably end up doing a lot then.

There are some weeks where it just feels so painful. Explosive for example. Orbs spawning very randomly and having to constantly focus them and spamming cobra shot, not the most fun. Bursting is another annoying one since it greatly slows down the pace, and some of the people I play with are a bit too trigger happy on the DPS. But I still appreciate the variety in the affixes and I don't mind a week where I sit back and only do 3-4 m+ dungeons for next week's chest, then something like volcanic-sanguine is more amazing in contrast. Just spam-running those dungeons.

[antelope591]

M+ is a victim of the long standing blizz tradition of favoring raids as the main method of gearing and frowning upon any other alternative. During EN and to a lesser extent NH, it was a great alternative to gearing and worth running multiple times per week to get some solid gear and AP. Now the AP grind is over and the gear it gives is pretty much shit compared to raid gear. My alt that hasn't stepped food in ToS yet is 915 just from titanforged NH gear mostly (which is a complete joke to run now). My main and other alt which has done ToS are 920+. Why the hell would I put myself trough the torture of doing a 15, for a piece that's gonna be completely useless 99% of the time that you probably won't even get since the loot change. Especially when you have a shitshow like teeming + explosive was last week. Literally no reason to do M+ anymore outside the weekly chest. Thanks blizz for killing your best addition to Legion. More great design choices from the small indie company.

[nidosarg]

M+ is a victim of the long standing blizz tradition of favoring raids as the main method of gearing and frowning upon any other alternative. During EN and to a lesser extent NH, it was a great alternative to gearing and worth running multiple times per week to get some solid gear and AP. Now the AP grind is over and the gear it gives is pretty much shit compared to raid gear. My alt that hasn't stepped food in ToS yet is 915 just from titanforged NH gear mostly (which is a complete joke to run now). My main and other alt which has done ToS are 920+. Why the hell would I put myself trough the torture of doing a 15, for a piece that's gonna be completely useless 99% of the time that you probably won't even get since the loot change. Especially when you have a shitshow like teeming + explosive was last week. Literally no reason to do M+ anymore outside the weekly chest. Thanks blizz for killing your best addition to Legion. More great design choices from the small indie company.

+1

Everyone complaignin about M+ but the fact is that blizzard cap the AK.

When you get the Concordance (the point of running m+ and the chance for the TITANFORGING) you dont even want to run back again to m+, Concordance Over 60 its insane to farm, and really boring.

AK killed M+.

Now is more harder i know, but if you do this with good team is not that bad.

Problem is that people with 890ilvl wanna do +15 keys it makes no sense. Its like if you wanna do TOS Mythic with that ilvl.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Mythic plus still going strong here. Plenty of fun and harder than ever. Last week was tough to get a 15 done, but at no point was it tough to find players. Only need 5. Biggest problem is the keystones but that has been a problem since day 1. Some keys are just dead. Hopefully the cathedral nerf was substantial?

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M+ is a victim of the long standing blizz tradition of favoring raids as the main method of gearing and frowning upon any other alternative. During EN and to a lesser extent NH, it was a great alternative to gearing and worth running multiple times per week to get some solid gear and AP. Now the AP grind is over and the gear it gives is pretty much shit compared to raid gear. My alt that hasn't stepped food in ToS yet is 915 just from titanforged NH gear mostly (which is a complete joke to run now). My main and other alt which has done ToS are 920+. Why the hell would I put myself trough the torture of doing a 15, for a piece that's gonna be completely useless 99% of the time that you probably won't even get since the loot change. Especially when you have a shitshow like teeming + explosive was last week. Literally no reason to do M+ anymore outside the weekly chest. Thanks blizz for killing your best addition to Legion. More great design choices from the small indie company.

Idk what game you are playing but if a 930 is 99 percent useless for you it must not be the same one in playing. The items have been gigantic upgrades for me now, replacing 900 pieces in trinket and belt slot. Only thing that might suck is if I get a slot that I use a legendary in but I switch them regularly so not a big deal.

[Hilaw]

Imo new changes aren't problem. It's just that we have grinded same dungeons all expansion, none wants to do those besides weekly 15. With mythic + we really need more new dungeons every tier.

[Moozart]

consumables are hardly a requirement tho, if you can't afford to use them - you can just run lower keys. If you want to run higher keys - well, you have to do what you have to do - spec properly and spend money on consumables. They aren't that expensive anyway, at least on overpopulated RU server

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Not really, you can still spam various easy keys and still farm loot. You'll get less of it but you still can. And if the choice is "do nothing" or "farm m+ for gear", nothing really changed.

Well, yes, a player more dedicated to the game gets better results, it's not a rocket science.

But lets be serious, you don't get booted off m+ runs for not using potions, you may get booted off for not flasking up or eating food (which is not really a problem for me since i'm a pandaren and bring 400 main stat tables with me), you'll get worse results and if that'll be a problem (like we had in m19 eye of azhara - we couldn't bring last boss down fast enough and wiped 20 fucking times) key will just decay to lower one and you can continue doing it

When I see people complaining about the cost of consumables it makes me think about a guy I saw outside 7-Eleven complaining that hot dogs were a buck. With the way this game throws gold at players there is no reason consumables should be an issue.

[SupBrah]

Yeah I really, really hope Blizz goes back and rethinks some of the changes they made to mythic+.

Nerf the loot amount? Fine

Buff the dungeon difficulties? Fine

But doing both was way too much. Now people only want to get a +15 in and call it a day. People purposely stop DPS on the final boss when doing a +13 or +14 in order to make sure they get a +15 key. And why wouldn't they? You don't get anything better besides an extra level or 2 for beating timers early. At least before you got a chance at more loot.

Sure, they increase the chance to get another piece of loot for every level over 15, but it's honestly not worth the effort. M+ is tuned so harshly that you need a full group of 930 minimum people to complete a +20 on time for a guaranteed extra piece of loot. The problem is that a full 930+ group has no need for an extra piece of 910 gear. Especially not for the headache.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Idk what game you are playing but if a 930 is 99 percent useless for you it must not be the same one in playing

read posts before you quote them, he is talking about the 910 items being 99% useless

[Deleted]

I do feel like going 5 levels below heroic loot was a huge mistake. If the warforge chance is even as high as 25%, you only get 1/4th of the heroic raid quality loot as you did before. The increased amount of loot on very high levels isn't really incentive enough at 910 base item level.

[Benssax]

Heroic TOV is miles easier than 15+ dungeons esp if you have a healer thats a bit weaker. I just do my 15 for the week and may help a few others with a 15 thats it.