Strength of Horde vs Alliance leaders

[therealbowser]

I wouldn't really consider Malfurion Stormrage a co-leader regardless of how he is labeled in lore. He has never been hostile towards the horde and for all intents and purposes is the leader of the druids, not the night elven people. He does very little (ie, nothing) in governing his people.

Likewise, I would not consider Rokhan the leader of the trolls. It's an unofficial assumption, though may well turn out to be the case. For all intents and purposes, and much to Blizzard's shame as a storywriter, the trolls remain leaderless to this day... that really ought to be rectified immediately.

Lastly, the Alliance does not have a grand leader any longer. Anduin Wrynn is not the High King. The Alliance is now as it once was; an alliance of nations. It does not have a grand leader (and if it did, that grand leader certainly wouldn't be Genn Greymane, either).

[Deleted]

alliance have the edge by far. velen and malfurion, tyrande to a lesser extent, stronger than all of the horde leaders together.

on on horde side, only rommath(i guess he can be considered a leader) is really a power house.

We have Gamon

[Zulkhan]

I wouldn't really consider Malfurion Stormrage a co-leader regardless of how he is labeled in lore. He has never been hostile towards the horde and for all intents and purposes is the leader of the druids, not the night elven people. He does very little (ie, nothing) in governing his people.

Pretty sure Malfurion remains a co-leader, given the great importance of Druids in Night Elf society and how that field entirely belongs to him to govern. That's a role that inevitably puts him less at odds with the Horde, given the strong ties his druids have with Tauren's.

I would agree that he's hardly an "Alliance" leader but nonetheless a leader of the Night Elf people remain.

[Deleted]

Can someone explain to me the purpose of this wankfest?
Headcanon and some more headcanon going against Blizzard 666-times-retconned canon which is not that much better than "Baine and Saurfang rip everyone in close range while rangers assassinate all casters from distance".

Power level of any racial leader is always exactly as high as current piss poor plot demands. If Sylvie needs to lose a lot more than her and all her zombies' future to Genn, because some wacky plot demands it, she will, and she won't even get an arrow in this time. if Velen needs to die because of another wacky plot, he will do so despite any beam duels he had with KJ.

[Deleted]

VAROK Saurfang can easily beat all Alliance leaders. He is the strongest orc alive and the most battle-hardened of all the characters OP mentioned. He is a grizzled veteran of all wars that happened in Warcraft history. His weapon is the most legendary axe ever created (and approved by fans - not like fake Legion legendaries) and honestly while I see other leaders dying Saurfang would never lose ever becase he is what Warcraft is all about. BADASS AVATAR OF PEAK PERFORMANCE.

Others are like a theory and they theoretically can fight. Varok is the fight.

Thread title should be "Varok Saurfang vs Sargeras" and then we could talk.

[Deleted]

Alliance have far more powerful leaders. Including Jaina (I mean, sort of) Who is more powerful and skilled than any Horde mage.

There's also Velen, who is incredibly powerful, same with Malfurion and even Tyrande. Anduin I'm not really sure of, and Genn is sort of just basic. Same with Falstad and the other one. Moira could be powerful too but I have no idea. Mekkatorque is kind of useless without his tech.

The Horde really don't have anyone special besides Sylvanas and Rommath. They're really just warriors while the Alliance have *magic*. If it was just the leaders vsing each other the Alliance would wipe the floor without even breaking a sweat in all honesty lol

LOL! Malfurion is a joke of a character. I only remember him whining and crying when we were saving his sorry as from the satyrs. Tyrande was useless too. She is so powerful yet got fooled by simple illusions during her cringe worthy questline. What else did they achieve? NOTHING.

Varok cleaved thousands of living and unliving beings. Cope with that! If the every soul he killed gave him exp he is a demigod status by now. Players and other lore characters would need few more expansions to even reach bottom of his power level. And magic is useless when warrior can heroic jump you and cleave.

[therealbowser]

Pretty sure Malfurion remains a co-leader, given the great importance of Druids in Night Elf society and how that field entirely belongs to him to govern. That's a role that inevitably puts him less at odds with the Horde, given the strong ties his druids have with Tauren's.

I would agree that he's hardly an "Alliance" leader but nonetheless a leader of the Night Elf people remain.

Well however you want to define Malfurion, two things remain clear:

1. He plays no role in governing the Night Elven people as a whole. Whether this is by choice or not remains to be seen, but he allows Tyrande to handle virtually all matters that are not druidic by nature. I've seen no exceptions to speak of, even before WoW. We saw that when Malfurion tried to convince Tyrande that the orcs and humans were not necessarily bad in Warcraft III, but quickly deferred to her judgement when she said they are not to be trusted. Etc.

2. He has never placed himself against the Horde in any situation, ever. He is absolutely, 100% a neutral character. Even from the beginning when he heard the orcs had killed Cenarius, he still did not want to fight them (Which is actually quite odd considering how he acted in Val'sharah, the only time he ever lost his temper).

So to an extent we can agree, I think.

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LOL! Malfurion is a joke of a character. I only remember him whining and crying when we were saving his sorry as from the satyrs.

Given the context of the quest, and given that Malfurion openly mocked his captor the entirety of the dungeon he was a part of, it's safe to assume his "whining" was an illusion created by Xavius to upset Tyrande, and did not actually occur.

He has tremendous power he just doesn't flaunt it like a lot of the Horde leaders do. That said, defer to my previous post in saying that Malfurion is not an Alliance leader.

[Deleted]

Tyrande=Jaina (Maybe. I can't remember how powerful Tyrande is)

Well, we don't know if Jaina is in any plot like she is a Titan or a Dreadlord but Tyrande has Elune's phone number so I would bet on Tyrande being the most powerful mortal (or at least the one who has more power to access). I don't know the mood of Elune but if she is available 24/7 to Tyrande, that is a HUGE pool of power. In fact Elune created the Naaru, or at least the ones who descend from Xe'ra, so technically Tyrande goes orders of magnitude above Velen (not talking about the characters raw power but from who they sip)

[Deleted]

Mekkatorque>>>>Genn.
If we followed the latters' tacts we would build a wall around half eastern kingdoms and come out of it to find a sea of tentacles nagas and insects.

[therealbowser]

While I agree, if Tyrande was attacked by Horde he would certainly choose his side without hesitation. So in the end he kind of is in a way haha

Except that he doesn't. In lore, he would, but in lore, Horde wouldn't attack Alliance leaders, certainly not within their own fortified cities. We're not under open warfare and in a real scenario Horde would never get that close to Darnassus unfettered.

[IgnisVenom]

VAROK Saurfang can easily beat all Alliance leaders. He is the strongest orc alive and the most battle-hardened of all the characters OP mentioned. He is a grizzled veteran of all wars that happened in Warcraft history. His weapon is the most legendary axe ever created (and approved by fans - not like fake Legion legendaries) and honestly while I see other leaders dying Saurfang would never lose ever becase he is what Warcraft is all about. BADASS AVATAR OF PEAK PERFORMANCE.

Others are like a theory and they theoretically can fight. Varok is the fight.

Thread title should be "Varok Saurfang vs Sargeras" and then we could talk.

It's really funny that your main argument is that Saurfang would win because of the fact that he fought in most conflicts yet Velen traveled from planet to planet for 25k years, has seen more than Saurfang can imagine as well as ruling the most advanced world in the Great Dark Beyond for years, not to mention the fact that he held his own against KJ in a beam duel. Tyrande has seen the biggest war in the history of Azeroth, and was literally resurrected by a God. Malfurion has also been a key part of the War of the Ancients. Not to even mention that he is a Demigod.

Meanwhile Saurfang got beat up by our characters as a part of the Warrior secret Artifact appearance.

[Deleted]

You weight the power of the alliances by their leaders. Meanwhile events in the Suramar (before inviding Nighthold) clearly shows that Horde (BE mostly compared to NE) power house is much higher.

Compare the Horde races to Alliance:
Horde has Taurens, Orcs and Trolls who are the strongest warriors in whole Azeroth. Forsakens that needs no rest and they grow in strenght during wars as they can ressurect dead bodies to create more Forsakens. Blood elves the masters of magic who were capable to fight with Nightborns who had thousands of years time to master the control over Arcane. And last but not least, Goblins, they are specializied in creating deadly weapons and siege machines. Combo that with Sylvana's/ Lor'themar Theron tactician minds and you have force that cannot be stopped.

Compared to that, Aliance (humans) is only bigger in numbers. Draenei is old race that is tired of wars and they are searching a save place to stay. They capital city was nearly destroyed not so long ago. Night elves days of glory are long gone in the past. Humans, Gnomes, Dwarfs and Worgens would pick up the fight but would they be enough? I doubt that.

[Zulkhan]

Including Jaina (I mean, sort of) Who is more powerful and skilled than any Horde mage.

Jaina is the best human sorceress in existence. Beyond the field of humanity and females, there can easily be mages better than her. Thalen Songweaver brushed off an attack of Jaina cast with "all her might" and I have no doubt Rommath is by far a better sorcerer than her.

The Horde really don't have anyone special besides Sylvanas and Rommath. They're really just warriors while the Alliance have *magic*. If it was just the leaders vsing each other the Alliance would wipe the floor without even breaking a sweat in all honesty lol

Anyone saying Horde is clearly biased, there's absolutely no way any of the current Horde leaders would survive in battle against the leaders of the Alliance

The value of magic is highly overrated around here. Magic is powerful, sure, but the ones wielding it are nonetheless made of flesh and blood. Its usage requires concentration, time to pull it off and in the field of battle, depending from the direness of the situation, the more "humble" ability to shatter bones, cut throats or pierce hearts from a mile can be as much deadly for any living organism as a spell meant to break the world apart.

2. He has never placed himself against the Horde in any situation, ever. He is absolutely, 100% a neutral character. Even from the beginning when he heard the orcs had killed Cenarius, he still did not want to fight them (Which is actually quite odd considering how he acted in Val'sharah, the only time he ever lost his temper).

The sidelining of the orcs' actions against Cenarius when the Burning Legion was threatening to set the world aflame was definitely more dictated by necessity than neutrality. The very word meant little back then since Night Elves had yet to join any faction. I totally agree that there's an evident clash between his reaction in Val'sharah and this, but we can at least point out the fact that the orcs were still sort of allies against the Legion involved in the equivalent of a "diplomatic incident" with his people, Xavius on the other hand was actively trying to ruin everything Malfurion cared about for shit and giggles.

The other was case was Cataclysm, but then again that had more to do with circumstances than personal stances. Malfurion and all his druids had to protect Hyjal itself from Ragnaros so it was inevitable that Tyrande should have dealt with the more "mundane" affairs against the Horde invasion of Ashenvale.

[Arrashi]

VAROK Saurfang can easily beat all Alliance leaders. He is the strongest orc alive and the most battle-hardened of all the characters OP mentioned. He is a grizzled veteran of all wars that happened in Warcraft history. His weapon is the most legendary axe ever created (and approved by fans - not like fake Legion legendaries) and honestly while I see other leaders dying Saurfang would never lose ever becase he is what Warcraft is all about. BADASS AVATAR OF PEAK PERFORMANCE.

Others are like a theory and they theoretically can fight. Varok is the fight.

Thread title should be "Varok Saurfang vs Sargeras" and then we could talk.

Saurfang is old and stale meme. Nowadays its all about mudmug.

[Deleted]

If Malfurion and Jaina counts as Alliance leaders then why not count Thrall as a Horde leader? He is the world shaman would surely tip the scale.

[therealbowser]

Saurfang is old and stale meme. Nowadays its all about mudmug.

Gotta agree with this. When I went to fight Saurfang for my arms artifact appearance, I was expecting an incredibly epic battle that I struggled to merely survive. Instead, I dropped him in seconds and moved on with my day.

Even ignoring the fact that that absolutely is unrelated to actual lore, Saurfang is old and he's only getting older. He's not that tough anymore.

[primalmatter]

I kind of like greymane but I am worried they are gonna butcher his character like garrosh...

[therealbowser]

If Malfurion and Jaina counts as Alliance leaders then why not count Thrall as a Horde leader? He is the world shaman would surely tip the scale.

Thrall is a bad joke. He was given godlike powers in Cataclysm to suit Metzen's desire for superorc. I'd rather pretend he doesn't exist.

Either way, he's supposedly lost his strength and is on a journey to try and retune to the elements, so for all we know he's not very powerful at all right now. Who knows. Maybe we'll find out once Thrall gets over himself and stops acting like a Mary Sue.

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I kind of like greymane but I am worried they are gonna butcher his character like garrosh...

What makes you think this? Greymane, unlike Garrosh, has stayed true to his character (IE doesn't change personalities dramatically with every expansion) and actually has valid reasons for fighting the Horde as opposed to Garrosh's apparent enjoyment of genocide and warfare for the sake of it.

There may be people who dislike worgen or don't care about Greymane, but I haven't ran across anyone that genuinely dislikes the character. I'm sure they are out there and this might even bait a response, but Garrosh had a lot of people who hated him and his poor development as a character, myself included... Greymane just doesn't incite that kind of reaction.

[Deleted]

It is a difficult thing to say because I think that saurfang would be able to cleave tyrande very early in the fight since the only real counter to him would be Genn ( that is if we use the wolfheart statistics of worgen being super fast and strong).

Velens only real power display was when he sacrificed himself in warlords of Dreanor

Unless she shoots him in the face with an arrow first.

See this is the issue with these kinds of threads.

You can say X character will do this, and another person can say Y character will do that.

Person 1: ''Oh well obviously Sylvanas would kill Genn immediately by firing arrows at him.''

Person 2: ''No she wouldn't because Genn would dodge her arrows and claw her face off.''

Person 1: ''Well, Sylvanas would obviously keep her distance, so Genn would never be able to catch her.''

Person 2: ''Well obviously Genn would catch her and rip her face off.''

Etc.

[Zulkhan]

also i see some contradiction in your post...... "The strength of leaders is meaningless" then "Set an ambush of assassins to kill Malfurion and rest assured that he'll die." if the leader is an all powerful god then how will you assassinate him?

I don't even know what you mean with "contradiction" here. And yes, an all powerful being can be assassinated just fine as long he's made of flesh and blood. You're pulling motherfucking Sargeras into this but the thread is about Horde and Alliance leaders, not godly entities.