Trump Bans Transgendered People From Service

[schwarzkopf]

There's absolutely nothing rational about gender or sexual orientation being a qualifier for military service.

Sexual orientation - you are quite correct.

However - gender orientation is a far more complex issue. If you can't see that you are letting your extreme views get in the way of reality.

In normal day to day society, considerations can be made ...

[Bullettime]

Anyone that requires medication for life should not be serving, they are a liability.

Except they don't necessarily require it. A trans person who gets cut off from their medication on deployment isn't going to breakdown and die. They take their medication to continue the transition and the longer you're on a continuous regimen the easier and faster the transition is.

People are clueless and act like cutting off HRT drugs is like cutting off a diabetics insulin.

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Although that's true trans people generally aren't willing to go without medication.

If Trump (or our favorite forum military cheerleader) truly wanted to make this about medication then make it about medication. Singling out trans people makes this not about the drugs. The whole drug thing is just a smokescreen for the bigotry behind this.

I mean...really...it's really simple to do things in a non-discriminatory manner to get your desired result yet conservatives manage to fail miserably every time.

Generally not willing to, correct. But as long as it's disclosed and agreed on that "hey, you may not always have access to your shit when on deployment" before they sign up for shit like the Marines, it shouldn't be a disqualifying factor.

[Moonstream]

Just out of curiosity, is there an overwhelming amount of trans gender people lining up to join the military? Or are we freaking out over like 10 people?

I'm on the fence with this, I feel if you want to serve your country you should be able to. But on the same hand (i know literally nothing about this subject) and don't know this for sure but aren't a lot of drugs and hormones required to maintain their now preferred body?

If someone would care to enlighten.

[Lenonis]

Except they don't necessarily require it. A trans person who gets cut off from their medication on deployment isn't going to breakdown and die. They take their medication to continue the transition and the longer you're on a continuous regimen the easier and faster the transition is.

People are clueless and act like cutting off HRT drugs is like cutting off a diabetics insulin.

Because this isn't about medication. That's just the excuse people are using to hide their real reasons.

[Bullettime]

Because this isn't about medication. That's just the excuse people are using to hide their real reasons.

Oh I know. I'm just arguing to counter that point others are trying to use.

[Lenonis]

Generally not willing to, correct. But as long as it's disclosed and agreed on that "hey, you may not always have access to your shit when on deployment" before they sign up for shit like the Marines, it shouldn't be a disqualifying factor.

Sure -- but that, then, should be done universally for anyone who takes anything from vitamins, to allergy meds, to insulin, to HRT.

[Deleted]

Ok - simple question, if someone who is b-male and identified as female - should the military treat them as their birth gender or their identified gender ?

If all persons can be treated as their birth gender, then there are no costs.

If certain persons have to have special treatment - then things get very complex to do respectfully.

That's just common sense.

Of course. In the UK we obviously have the NHS and 'free' treatment at the point of service, but even here the military helps their personnel receive treatment through the military or private sources where appropriate. It's the same as any other medical issue. Once diagnosed, treat. If it's one of any number of mental or physical health issues treatment is provided because we have a duty of care for the personnel within the armed forces.

Edit: As for how you refer to them, you refer to them by their preferred gender pronouns, just like you should any other time.

[schwarzkopf]

What "63 genders?" Treat transgender men like men and transgender women like women.

Well, we started with LG, then LGB, then LGBT then LGBTQ ... if you look at the list coming from the far left whackos - there are 63 distinct ones on the way.

As for treating transgender men like men and transgender women like women - that's fine if they have finished their transition. But I don't know if you are aware of how much goes into the transition. During that extensive (maybe 5 years or more) - things are VERY complex.

I don't consider a person who has finished the change as transgender, I consider them as their new gender.

[Belize]

Guess what, the military isn't accepting diabetics or people with asthma either! Like I said, people without a clue having an opinion.

Actually, they do generally accept type 2 diabetics, and will keep you if you're diagnosed post enlistment.

Try again.

[Bullettime]

Guess what, the military isn't accepting diabetics or people with asthma either! Like I said, people without a clue having an opinion.

Again, a transgender person who has to be cut off from medication isn't risking death or severe injury. Most don't want to be cut off from their drugs but the Navy and Air Force especially still take people with certain medical conditions that require medication and it's not an issue at all. They also will keep people and try to accommodate certain conditions like type 2 diabetes, especially if diagnosed after enlistment.

If you sign up for the Army or Marine Corps and the person understands "we may not always be able to get you this medication" before they sign, it shouldn't be an issue.

[Lenonis]

Guess what, the military isn't accepting diabetics or people with asthma either!

Pretty sure this is more akin to someone with allergies. Does the military accept people with allergies? If someone doesn't get their allergy meds they'll be uncomfortable but still functional.

[javen]

Ok - simple question, if someone who is b-male and identified as female - should the military treat them as their birth gender or their identified gender ?

If all persons can be treated as their birth gender, then there are no costs.

If certain persons have to have special treatment - then things get very complex to do respectfully.

That's just common sense.

Treat them as their preferred gender, because why wouldn't you?

Without actually identifying any of these 'costs', this is just nonsense. Saying 'well it would create problems...' and not actually being able to articulate what any of these problems are, indicates that you yourself have no idea, so you're just spouting bullshit.

This exact same argument; EXACT same, took place when it was gays, and women, and minorities, and it was just as baseless those times, too.

[Dougie Cooper]

As usual, people without a clue have an opinion. This isn't political. It's not discriminatory. I couldn't deploy some of my soldiers who had sleep apnea because I couldn't guarantee they'd have constant electricity for their machines. The military is a binary sex organization that based physical performance requirements on sex. Men are stronger than women. Trans people require constant medication and hormone therapy, things that aren't available in remote, austere environments. If you can't deploy, you have no business being in the armed forces.

You're certainly one to talk. "Constant medication and hormone therapy." I get a shot of testosterone once per week. With my insurance, a 6 month supply of it costs $10 (around $90 for 6 months without insurance), and the needles are around 30 cents each at most. If I miss a week, I'm fine. Hell, I can miss several weeks and it doesn't suddenly revert my transition. Trans women have some additional medications they need, but you're really overestimating the costs.

[Crissi]

I don't see how this doesn't end up in gender territory, considering it's already being led that direction

Closing