Possible future hero classes.

[Bas Prime]

I'd like to see Witch Doctor, Shadow+Nature magic + hexes.

Could work. A problem is, isnt Witch Doctor more of an Troll class?
How would you bring them to WoW, what would be the theme, the lore, the "entrance" of this class? How do you picture it?

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There's nothing a Necromancer could do that a DK wouldn't be able to do. They don't have a similar general theme, they have the same theme.

Thing is, there is nothing we know of so far that a Necro could do that a DK wouldn't be able. Blizz can easily come up with another theme, people in this thread could have good ideas. Although I see a connection between those two.

[Directionalk9]

There's nothing a Necromancer could do that a DK wouldn't be able to do. They don't have a similar general theme, they have the same theme.

Unless you implement the class's mechanics differently and still play on the theme of death magic.

[zlygork]

Classes and professions are not the same thing, that's why they can explore similar themes because they are different by nature.

Keep in mind that even if it seems that classes have similar specs, the overarching class theme makes them different. For example, while Fire Mages and Destruction Warlocks may seem similar, Warlocks combine fire magic with Shadow magic, whereas Mages combine fire magic with ice abilities. That makes the specs different. Again, there are things Warlocks can do that Mages can't do, and vice versa.

There's nothing a Necromancer could do that a DK wouldn't be able to do. They don't have a similar general theme, they have the same theme.

spells that require quiet and concentration? Swinging a runeblade gets in the way.

I sort of get your point, I am far from enamoured by the concept of necromancers myself - but it's only hypocritical to selectively use the same arguments that you oppose when defending your favoured class.

[Jtree]

Again, you're comparing specs; Holy vs Holy. We're not talking about a Necromancer spec, we're talking about a new Necromancer class. On the class level Paladins and Priests are quite different from each other. There are things Priests can do that Paladins cannot do. There is nothing a Necromancer could do that a DK couldn't do.

Your exact argument against Demon Hunters (vis-a-vis Warlocks), back in the day.

[Teriz]

Unless you implement the class's mechanics differently and still play on the theme of death magic.

Isn't that what specs do? I.e. Enhance Shaman vs Elemental Shaman?

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Your exact argument against Demon Hunters (vis-a-vis Warlocks), back in the day.

Yes, and there's a big difference between Warlocks/Demon Hunters and Death Knights/Necromancers. Metamorphosis was one ability confined in one spec. Necromancy exists throughout the Death Knight class.

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spells that require quiet and concentration? Swinging a runeblade gets in the way.

Thing is, Death Knights can perform spells without quiet and concentration. That's how powerful they are.

I sort of get your point, I am far from enamoured by the concept of necromancers myself - but it's only hypocritical to selectively use the same arguments that you oppose when defending your favoured class.

Well the difference is that Necromancer fans can simply roll an UH DK and they are playing a Necromancer. A Tinker fan has no such class options. Engineering simply doesn't cut it.

[zlygork]

Isn't that what specs do? I.e. Enhance Shaman vs Elemental Shaman?

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Yes, and there's a big difference between Warlocks/Demon Hunters and Death Knights/Necromancers. Metamorphosis was one ability confined in one spec. Necromancy exists throughout the Death Knight class.

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Thing is, Death Knights can perform spells without quiet and concentration. That's how powerful they are.



Well the difference is that Necromancer fans can simply roll an UH DK and they are playing a Necromancer. A Tinker fan has no such class options. Engineering simply doesn't cut it.

While frost has some thematic connection to death (the death are cold, plus northrend) I would hardly be able to say it is a necromantic thing in any way (except some spells with edgy names and the fact that the lich in wc3 used frost magic)

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Thing is, Death Knights can perform spells without quiet and concentration. That's how powerful they are.

I am sure demon hunters can summon minions, warlocks can transform into demons, priests can also do necromantic stuff. I am sure archmages can do EVERYTHING any other magical class, including druid and shaman can do. What is your point here?

Also sure, DKs are so awesomely powerful they can cast some raw spells in movements, however I've never seen anynthing suggest they can make even remotely complex spells on the go. Remember how a necromancer spent half an hour (in-gaming time, god knows how long in-game time) to summon Archimonde? Not saying that should be a necromancer spell but that is not something I expect some DK to just be able to do.

[DesoPL]

I am sure we will get some bread cutting quests in dal for any willing alts to skip the entire order halls and that will be precisely what any new class will do. EVEN IF new classes from now on always started after 110, there is no way blizzard would block them out of all of the broken isle quests if they ever feel like revisiting.

I doubt it may happend, if so they should cut off as well garrisons from WoD leveling. Second thing is, that making new content for older expansions might took longer than making new expasion.

[zlygork]

I doubt it may happend, if so they should cut off as well garrisons from WoD leveling. Second thing is, that making new content for older expansions might took longer than making new expasion.

Why? You can literally go through the entire draenor leveling questline without ever touching your garrison after the first mission to set it up. And "making new content" literally means "ok, clone this quest but the NPC finishing it is in dalaran instead of at light hope's chapel", there now you have access to broken isle.

[Jtree]

Yes, and there's a big difference between Warlocks/Demon Hunters and Death Knights/Necromancers. Metamorphosis was one ability confined in one spec. Necromancy exists throughout the Death Knight class.

Which was not your back-in-the-day argument. You were entirely insistent Demon Hunters and Warlocks couldn't exist because "Demons" were a theme entirely covered by warlocks, and there was no room for a Demon Hunter class to share that overarching concept.

[Directionalk9]

Why? You can literally go through the entire draenor leveling questline without ever touching your garrison after the first mission to set it up. And "making new content" literally means "ok, clone this quest but the NPC finishing it is in dalaran instead of at light hope's chapel", there now you have access to broken isle.

After the initial setting up of the Garrison or Order Hall you pretty much never need to return to either of those places. For new classes going through Legion, its a matter of talking to Khadgar in Org/SW him doing whatever we do to get to BI Dalaran (I just can't remember) and then having a quest giver in Krasus Landing that says "Where to first?" then go to the FP then start leveling. I sincerely doubt Blizz whenever they make a new Class is going to make them an Order Hall and Artifacts, just to get through the Legion leveling experience. You don't even need the breadcrumb quests to start in the zones right now. Highmountain as Oro all over the zone if you haven't done it yet.

[Teriz]

While frost has some thematic connection to death (the death are cold, plus northrend) I would hardly be able to say it is a necromantic thing in any way (except some spells with edgy names and the fact that the lich in wc3 used frost magic)

They can summon an undead dragon.

I am sure demon hunters can summon minions, warlocks can transform into demons, priests can also do necromantic stuff. I am sure archmages can do EVERYTHING any other magical class, including druid and shaman can do. What is your point here?

In lore perhaps, in gameplay no. In fact Blizzard didnt allow a third DH ranged spec because they deemed it to close to Warlocks.

The point? Blizzard dont want classes to be too similar to each other. I support that stance.

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Which was not your back-in-the-day argument. You were entirely insistent Demon Hunters and Warlocks couldn't exist because "Demons" were a theme entirely covered by warlocks, and there was no room for a Demon Hunter class to share that overarching concept.

Cause back then Warlocks did cover every aspect of it. Blizzard removed the ability to transform into a demon from Warlocks in order to give DHs a niche.

[Hitei]

Again, you're comparing specs; Holy vs Holy. We're not talking about a Necromancer spec, we're talking about a new Necromancer class. On the class level Paladins and Priests are quite different from each other. There are things Priests can do that Paladins cannot do. There is nothing a Necromancer could do that a DK couldn't do.

If shadow is all that it takes for Priests to be distinct from Paladins, then a bone magic DPS spec is all it takes for Necromancers to be distinct from Death Knights, since the only bone spells DKs have are a defensive shield and defensive AoE talent that is more blood than bone.

Here are things Necromancers already in game do, that the Death Knight class cannot:

Summon bone golems.
Summon swarms of spirits to attack enemies.
Summon Bone Wraiths.
Summon frost spectres.
Summon Banshees
Hurl bolts of sharpened bone.
Summon Plague clouds and disrupt nearby spell casting in an area.
Weaken targets by interfering with their soul.
Steal a portion of the enemy's soul to heal themselves.
Put DoTs on the soul.
Sicken an enemy's soul, slowing their actions for a brief window and then stunning them. Siphon off part of the enemy's soul with a channel, damaging and weakening them
Live on in a reduced form after death temporarily, debilitate the enemy
summon actual swarms of low health skeletal minions, rather than a glyphed pet.
Empower allies to do AoE damage, summon shades to attack and do AoE damage
Lower enemy cooldown rate, hurl bolts of shadowfrost, suicide in a blast of dark energy
Hurl volleys of poison bolts.
Knock back enemies with a burst of shadow magic.
Create poison novas, and pools of acid.
AoE fear at a targeted location
Deal stacking shadow damage with bolts
or beams
Steal your enemy's flesh to reduce their damage and increase your own, curse their maximum health lower.
Use torrents of raw spirit essence to attack.
Attack with storms of souls.
Create piles of bones that can then be animated.

[zlygork]

They can summon an undead dragon.

Oh wow, such an incredible touch that makes the entire spec themed around death

In lore perhaps, in gameplay no

How does this not apply to YOUR argument about DK being able to do everything necromancers could?

In fact Blizzard didn't allow a third DH ranged spec because they deemed it to close to Warlocks.

Pure, baseless speculations. My own baseless assumption on the matter is that blizzard thought that they can make smaller classes from now on and push them out more often as selling points because they cause less of a balancing backlash than 3/4 specced classes

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Cause back then Warlocks did cover every aspect of it. Blizzard removed the ability to transform into a demon from Warlocks in order to give DHs a niche.

The same can happen a thousand more times if blizzard makes it necessary. What makes the demon hunters that you used to oppose the exception?

[Directionalk9]

If shadow is all that it takes for Priests to be distinct from Paladins, then a bone magic DPS spec is all it takes for Necromancers to be distinct from Death Knights, since the only bone spells DKs have are a defensive shield and defensive AoE talent that is more blood than bone.

Here are things Necromancers already in game do, that the Death Knight class cannot:

Summon bone golems.
Summon swarms of spirits to attack enemies.
Summon Bone Wraiths.
Summon frost spectres.
Summon Banshees
Hurl bolts of sharpened bone.
Summon Plague clouds and disrupt nearby spell casting in an area.
Weaken targets by interfering with their soul.
Steal a portion of the enemy's soul to heal themselves.
Put DoTs on the soul.
Sicken an enemy's soul, slowing their actions for a brief window and then stunning them. Siphon off part of the enemy's soul with a channel, damaging and weakening them
Live on in a reduced form after death temporarily, debilitate the enemy
summon actual swarms of low health skeletal minions, rather than a glyphed pet.
Empower allies to do AoE damage, summon shades to attack and do AoE damage
Lower enemy cooldown rate, hurl bolts of shadowfrost, suicide in a blast of dark energy
Hurl volleys of poison bolts.
Knock back enemies with a burst of shadow magic.
Create poison novas, and pools of acid.
AoE fear at a targeted location
Deal stacking shadow damage with bolts
or beams
Steal your enemy's flesh to reduce their damage and increase your own, curse their maximum health lower.
Use torrents of raw spirit essence to attack.
Attack with storms of souls.
Create piles of bones that can then be animated.

Funny I was doing the quests in front of ToV and you have that ability Horn of Helhiem.... I'm ooo a necromancer ability kind of, competely unlike any DK spell....then here you are with a plethora of abilities.

[Ielenia]

There's nothing a Necromancer could do that a DK wouldn't be able to do.

On that same token... isn't it true to say that "there's nothing a Priest could do that a Paladin wouldn't be able to do? Since both share the exact same 'Holy Light' theme and all?

[Black Rider]

Could work. A problem is, isnt Witch Doctor more of an Troll class?
How would you bring them to WoW, what would be the theme, the lore, the "entrance" of this class? How do you picture it?

Blizz can manage that, Paladin was only Alliance class but boom, horde got it.

[Bas Prime]

Blizz can manage that, Paladin was only Alliance class but boom, horde got it.

Dude, I am all with you on that part. Just wanted to know how you would like it to be done, your "vision" of it. I thought you might have some ideas to it.

[Jtree]

Cause back then Warlocks did cover every aspect of it. Blizzard removed the ability to transform into a demon from Warlocks in order to give DHs a niche.

They clearly did not, given all the things Demon Hunters do and are that warlocks never did or were.

But whatever you got to tell yourself, dude.

[Thimagryn]

Cause back then Warlocks did cover every aspect of it. Blizzard removed the ability to transform into a demon from Warlocks in order to give DHs a niche.

They also admitted to pushing the Warlock concept further and further away from what its fantasy supposed to be. Warlock, Hunter and Boomkin tanking were also removed from the game, so should we blame Demon Hunters for that too? Warlocks should have never had a transformation in the first place. It was always a part of their concept that made no sense, since they are playing with powers beyond their ability to control.

[Darktbs]

A question, lets pretend for one sec that you are right and Necros=Dks

What is stopping you, us and more importantly,Blizzard, of making new concepts and ideas?

They did It with ALL New 3 classes, what makes you think they wouldn't do It again?