Titanforged and a casual

[xuros]

Idiots who think TF is a bad system, forgot or dont know how it worked before any "forged" drops came along.

You always farmed older content, the difference is now there is both AP and a possibility of getting a good procced item as a reward.
Contra that single set item or trinket ppl still farm for without any chance of proccing higher ilvls.

WF/TF system helps every single raid group.

Eh, waited the entire SoO raid to get a Mythic W/F PBoI from Immerseus. By entire raid i mean from the day heroic/mythic opened it never dropped for me until the week before WoD hit. Thats why mythic raiders dislike it. Its another RNG system that is just pure luck.

[Aggrophobic]

One guy say this SYSTEM force people to work hard to do WQ, ALL LFG LFR, EMERALD NIGHTAMRE N/H/M, NIGHTHOLD N/H/M, TOMB N/H, FARM SHARD, just to get TF gear.
This guy say people that like this system is lazy. LOL

Of course you are wrong. It is the polar opposite of lazy if you see a guy with ilvl remotely comparable to mythic raiders doing only LFG LFR WQ and perhaps normal AND that guy is also lucky.

That is true but WANTING a system that lets you get the best gear in game without doing anything is lazy.

[Hctaz]

The solution, I think, is straightforward. WF procs are +5 ilevels. TF procs are +10 with a chance for an optional gem slot. But +20 or more ilevels is, I think, not good design.

I honestly want them to put gem slots back on things and not tie it into RNG anymore. Feels really lame when you don't have that one socket to get the 200 main stat gem. They should either make only jewelry drop with sockets and make it a guarantee or change it to where every piece just has one socket or something. Would be boring but fuck at least it's less goddamn RNG. And I agree with you on the +5 and the +10. Not only does titanforging to absurd levels undermine harder content but it also keeps older stuff relevant for far too long. Nobody wants to grind out the first raid or the same dungeons over and over and over for a chance at a 955 version of that old shit. Let the new stuff be relevant without needing to drastically power creep the heck out of the old stuff.

[Tatzi]

The only issue for me is that a lot of BiS pieces are from dungeons, which is annoying because I tend to go for BiS over anything else. And if its in a dungeon I need to farm that dungeon over and over in the hopes that A) It drops and B) It Titanforges higher than the last time I got it.

It doesn't feel good to me. I'd rather it be more static with Warforged (+5 or +10), but when it goes higher than that, I feel like there's no point in doing harder content, since I can just farm more and potentially get the titanforge.

[Naibil]

The reason people hate titanforging as a high end player is not because it allows low end players to get high gear
but because it makes high end players feel they have to do ALLLLLLL the content to have a chance at getting a horrible low peice of gear that will be super amazing BIS if it titan forges.

i cant remember where it was said, i think bellular, but titanforging would be better if it worked
a piece titanforged, cool it got 50/50 and instead of 900 is now 950
or one that drops it 25/50 and instead of 900 is now 925
but for a non titanforged piece, it will be 900 with 0/50 and using something you earn here and there, that allows you to upgrade the items 5 ilvl at a time

This could make for an interesting use of the Obliterum Forge. Multiple drops of the same item reforged to upgrade the particular pieces towards the item cap.

[Hctaz]

Idiots who think TF is a bad system, forgot or dont know how it worked before any "forged" drops came along.

You always farmed older content, the difference is now there is both AP and a possibility of getting a good procced item as a reward.
Contra that single set item or trinket ppl still farm for without any chance of proccing higher ilvls.

WF/TF system helps every single raid group.

No it doesn't lol. Are you kidding? I mean of course people did farm old stuff way back in the day, but the way Legion is right now people only farm old content because of the titanforge system. The item level gaps are so high and the trinkets are relatively balanced. This isn't like in Wrath when the gear gap was less intense between raid tiers and they would release some super mega OP trinket with no replacement in the next tier. Like of course people farmed BT back in BC but that was because it dropped a legendary item.

Even if I did need to use a 905 Convergence of Fates over any 930 trinket in Mythic Tomb (which I'll be doing anyway because I know I'm unlikely to receive anything higher) at least I know that I have THE trinket I need. I never looked at somebody's 277 trinket in Wrath and thought "Man, if only my Naxx trinket rolled an item level bonus so I, too, could be OP"

If they had some super OP trinket from Ulduar then it was some 239 from Algalon and wasn't titanforged up to 277. Good on them. If I farmed Algalon and it dropped the same trinket for me then I would also have it. None of us would have some random advantage due to arbitrary RNG.

[epLe]

Some might say that it is only for TF yes, but in general no.
Most people raid NH still because their raidleader tells them to, or because they want to for any reason.

Trinkets is just a common example but it is just another reason which more go there for compared to titanforges,
just as when I was running Naxx40 in vanilla - I was still running BWL for nef's tear.

And tbh the upgrade systems in wrath>MoP was not more fun in any way.

Im quite a purist, but the WF/TF system is one of the best introductions they ever made to keep a raid going.
So many of the instant-gratification players stop raiding when there is no chance for upgrades for them, while others in their raidgroup still do..

[Rogalicus]

That's like saying that you'd love welfare if on some months it titanforged up to Microsoft's CEO wage.

[nothingsjim]

Titanforge is very casual friendly, people who complained about it are mostly the top hardcore players who feel "Obliged" to raid old content, just so may be once in a blue moon a piece of crazy TF drops. They also happen to be the most vocal group, which is why it gets so much spotlight it doesn't deserve.

TLR Titanforge is cool and fine, I like it.

[Normie]

Think one of the main reasons it is hated, is because people are obsessed with the 'BiS' hunt. Almost as if some believes they cannot be good raiders without AT LEAST being 75% BiS.

I for one, like the system. Just gives you the added surprise to it.

I like it too.

I haven't played WoW much this expansion, but WF/TF gear only "ruins" the game for a tiny percentage of players. For the rest of us it is something that makes you briefly happy that you logged in.

That's like saying that you'd love welfare if on some months it titanforged up to Microsoft's CEO wage.

That's the thing though. Welfare can't TF to +Gates, but computer pixels can TF to whatever number.

Still, I'd like it if my paycheck TFed occasionally.

Long ago I had this coworker who raffled off his paycheck. He was getting about 3x his paycheck, for his paycheck, when the company (and the cops) shut him down.

[Moozart]

Sorry but I dont recognise Casuals as Normal players

IF all the "casuals" stopped paying for the game the rest of us would not have a game to raid in

[Malkiah]

IMO TF as it stands currently is just another in a host of systemic problems WoW has relating to utterly ridiculous levels of MUDflation in its gear design.
the stupendous gear bloat from expansion start to expansion end is completely insane and this has been a problem in wow for a very long time, but the last couple of expansions i feel it has ramped up significantly in intensity.

IMO a much better system would be to remove the ilevel component entirely and just have it be like this.
warforged: random tertiary stat (leech, avoidance, speed)
titanforged: random tertiary stat + socket

this way WF and TF gear is still objectively better, gems become more valuable to the game overall but not in a way that makes them mandatory all the time for all gear, and there's just enough reason to chase gear or shoot for the same item with more stats without it being a game breaking difference in whether or not your piece upgrades.

improvement is good, chasing gear is fundamental to the core design of an always-on MMO, but it doesn't need to be "go up one difficulty level and get 9,000 higher ilevel" every gear tier, it's just stupid right now.

[mage21]

I'm not terribly keen on it due to the fact that mythic raiders work really hard, and their gear is one of the fruits of that labor. Sure, along with the progression and parsing and everything else, but rocking high ilvl gear is part of the reward of downing Mythic Sisters a week ago. Not anymore. I routinely run into guys rocking 8/9H with a higher ilvl than me and it just seems... wrong.

I don't begrudge them, I'm sure they're very happy, but I don't think it's good design.

[Niwes]

ppls like op are the second reason (in a list of many reasons) why i hate TF in its current form.

this expansion has way too less caps in way too many corners. TF is one of them.

- - - Updated - - -

I understand that a lot of the Mythic raiders hate the TF system.

I'm on the opposite end of the end of the spectrum. I love the TF system as a casual player and I hope it is always in the game in some form.

The fact that I have a chance as a casual player to get something really really good. (yes even better than Mythic drops)is just awesome and has a real impact on retaining me as a player everyday.

there should always be a chance that you will get something really really awesome and powerful in game even though you dont have the interest or time in working in a very structured group and commitment to get it that lvl of gear normaly. No I'm not saying i should be able to get a full set of 955 gear as a casual player but that I should have a chance at 1 or even 2 piece of that lvl gear just from doing normal and heroic content.

The TF system is really great and keeps me playing knowing that if luck is on my side one day I may get something really awesome.

and what exactly do you do with that really really good items ?
what is your benefit of them / their ilvl as a casual raider ?
why "faster" getting a higher ilvl "keeps" you playing ?
is "unexp. player + high ilvl" good for the game ?

questions upon questions...

[Constraint]

Think one of the main reasons it is hated, is because people are obsessed with the 'BiS' hunt. Almost as if some believes they cannot be good raiders without AT LEAST being 75% BiS.

- - - Updated - - -

I for one, like the system. Just gives you the added surprise to it.

I've never thought like that at all, really. But I know everyone's different.

For me it's more being actually -disappointed- when I get my first new pieces of tier/trinkets etc in a new raid and finding that they're -not- titanforged, just through pure RNG. I miss the feeling of loot being loot, and when you receive that piece, cool, that's a great piece in its own right, instead of something for which you have to fish for RNG for the rest of the tier cycle.

On top of that, with tier bonuses being as badly designed as they are now, lots of us feel almost compelled to run old raids over and over to fish for high titanforged procs. I don't care about any set levels of "BiS" but if there are clear performance upgrades to be found purely through RNG from old raids, to me there's a problem there.

Some might say "What's wrong with inspiring the player base to re-run older content?" but I don't buy that, personally. It's not a challenge anymore, it's simply rolling the dice week after week after a snooze-fest clear and hoping you see sixes.

[Scrotch]

I don't like the current wf/tf system, because there is too much RNG involved in most things Legion. I run as much content, if not more content than other people in my guild, but in every raid I've been 5-10 ilvls behind 90% of the raid. Still don't have the bis legendary for my spec, it's one of the last 2 for me to get (and before someone jumps down my throat for not playing enough to get all the legendaries yet, I did main swap once). The paragon rep chests haven't given me a single mount or toy with 3 characters keeping up with emissaries and mission board rep tokens. Despite being the alchemist for my guild and making all the flasks, I still only have 2/4 flasks at 3 stars.

Content wise, I've really enjoyed Legion. The broken shore weekly quest line was weak, but everything else has been mostly good. It's all these heavily RNG based chances where I fail at getting a desired reward without any sort of non-RNG based way to fix it is just wearing down on me. If you're unlucky for long periods of time, it's an unpleasant system.

I would LOVE it if they added a way to upgrade gear for effort, so I can just work harder if I keep getting unlucky. Or ideally if they just reigned in the RNG that has seeped into every reward system in the game just about.

[cparle87]

You cant do good mythic dps without Bis legendarys and titanforges which are RNG. If you dont want to be bis then this game isnt for you and you should quit asap.
Try to prove your BS to mythic semi/hardcore guilds.

Did you ever consider what those mythics are tuned around? I highly doubt they're tuned around everyone in the guild have several pieces of 930+ titanforged gear. They're most likely tuned around whatever the non-warforged gear level is, like everyone other raid that's ever existed. If you got lots of TF pieces you're ahead of the game. If you don't you're not ahead, but stop acting like you're behind and it's something terrible and evil.

[excited]

For all the "high end mythic raiders" that complain about Titanforging, I like to remember that they are 1-2% of the population and that I give zero fucks about their whiny bitch bullshit.

You do know that this affects you too... right? You can also get fucked by the RNG that is titanforging. It's not exclusive to the hardcore of the hardcore.

I think you're in the wrong mindset, don't get me wrong you can by all means think like this but doesn't it feel a teeny tiny bit unfair that the one guildie you have that is the same spec as you, has over all the same gear as you but has majority of his BiS pieces titanforged and is doing more dps than you because TF RNG was in his favor and not yours?

Shit like that sure leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

[nekobaka]

It is great to give alternative forms of progression more to stretch out on. It is shit in being reliant on the titanforged system. I do not raid anymore and do not see what is so great about being so RNG bound. The system feels like it adds an unnecessary amount of grind for the typical casual and is instead more oriented towards the no-lifers who call themselves casual. Than again many of the "casuals" on official forums are no-lifers that spend upward of 80 hours a week on the game like Aehl.

[Super Kami Dende]

You do know that this affects you too... right? You can also get fucked by the RNG that is titanforging. It's not exclusive to the hardcore of the hardcore.

I think you're in the wrong mindset, don't get me wrong you can by all means think like this but doesn't it feel a teeny tiny bit unfair that the one guildie you have that is the same spec as you, has over all the same gear as you but has majority of his BiS pieces titanforged and is doing more dps than you because TF RNG was in his favor and not yours?

Shit like that sure leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

I don't get fucked by Titanforged RNG though. Since anytime my gear Titanforges, it is an upgrade and I give Zero shits about what gear other people have in the same game. Mostly because I'm not a little bitch.