Venezuelan Cash Worth Less Than WoW Gold

[jimboa24]

If there had been no government bailout in 2008, the banks would have gone bankrupt.

Actually, capitalism is failing when it is about banks, social systems and monopolism. It needs a strong state to control all.

Endless greed is no answer to speculators who suck the blood out of economies. Endless greed is no answer to the needs of the poor and the human right to have health care and safety if you ever should lose your job. Endless greed is no answer to monopolists. And endless greed just makes the rich more rich and the poor even more poor.

Trickle down failed. Libertarianism failed. Nationalism will fail as it is no proper answer to global capitalism.

Not all of them. Some banks would have died out, new banks would take their place. After all, it's not like there hasn't ever been a massive bank crisis before.

The rest of your post just shows how little you actually know about what you're talking about. 2008 was nothing we haven't gone through and seen before, nor was it nearly as bad as several of the crashes we've had before. The hard truth is that banks fail. Titans fall. The market goes on. You really think that if some major, global banks fail that all trade will cease, all wealth evaporates overnight, law and order breaks down and the world stops turning?

No. We go through a period of nasty economic depression (again, nothing new there), new banks form, or pre-existing banks grow larger to fill in the void left behind by the titans, and the economy bounces back.

[Deleted]

Not all of them. Some banks would have died out, new banks would take their place. After all, it's not like there hasn't ever been a massive bank crisis before.

Actually this was the biggest bank crisis. And showed that the unregulated bank system in america didnt work, thanks to endless speculation bubbling.

2008 was nothing we haven't gone through and seen before, nor was it nearly as bad as several of the crashes we've had before.

2008 was completely different to what was seen before, as it hit the house owners in america very hard. The speculators bet on a market that infact didnt exist, and loans were given noone was ever able to pay.

It was a complete and utter failure of the bank system. It should have lead to a central bank regulation, way more than a current central bank actually is able to do.

The money market needs to be in control of the state.

The hard truth is that banks fail. Titans fall. The market goes on.

If the government hadnt intervened, thousands of people would have to live on the streets. So much for "uncontrolled capitalism".

You really think that if some major, global banks that all trade will cease, all wealth evaporates overnight, law and order breaks down and the world stops turning?

No, but banks are way too powerful nowadays. They should not be. They should be under democratic control, and not control democracy, as like in a country which is literally owned by Goldman Sachs.

No. We go through a period of nasty economic depression (again, nothing new there), new banks form, or pre-existing banks grow larger to fill in the void left behind by the titans, and the economy bounces back.

There is no "depression", infact we have economical growth, in special in countries which have social market economy and bank regulation. Learn from it, libertarian.

Pure capitalism failed. Because it is inhumane, and it isnt working on the bank sector and with monopolism. Capitalism needs state driven control..

[Deleted]

Ok the sources you linked me to have a terrible history of being factual. Exception is al jeezera which I speculate that post to be more opinionated then anything. If I asked my college professors most if not all would agree that Venezuela is a mess. Secondly carter I hate to be frank with you but hes an idiot and that is why he lost 1980.T his is the same guy who thought Castro was being nice and got screwed over by him when he opened the prisons and released the criminals and mentally disturbed. Thirdly two of those websites are dated 2012 and 2015 before maduro decided to revamp things. Now theirs real problem in Venezuela with rights. Also what you dont understand is that Chavez gutted two term presidency and now ran for multiple times pretty much becoming el presidente for life. Also telesur is paid by them, cuba and others who follow socialism. I would suggest you dig deeper on them not every website you read is true some are propaganda.
1. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/telesur/
2. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/truth-out/
Also I dont complain about voter fraud or election rigging Im one of those people who look at like well we did stuff to people payback comes back at some point but it's a nice ad hominem attack.

The system where you can be elected for life is common in most democracies: the UK has it and both Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair were elected three times.

I don't like aspects of the Venezuelan system, as I intensely dislike aspects of the UK and US systems. There is however, nothing to merit the irrational hostility of the American government or its media, much less sanctions.

[I Push Buttons]

Not all of them. Some banks would have died out, new banks would take their place. After all, it's not like there hasn't ever been a massive bank crisis before.

The rest of your post just shows how little you actually know about what you're talking about. 2008 was nothing we haven't gone through and seen before, nor was it nearly as bad as several of the crashes we've had before. The hard truth is that banks fail. Titans fall. The market goes on. You really think that if some major, global banks fail that all trade will cease, all wealth evaporates overnight, law and order breaks down and the world stops turning?

No. We go through a period of nasty economic depression (again, nothing new there), new banks form, or pre-existing banks grow larger to fill in the void left behind by the titans, and the economy bounces back.

Oh and the massive economic, psychological, and social strain on the population that accompanied those things, no big deal.

[Taso]

Ha ha, keep drinking that kool-aid and ignoring those tings called facts.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles...-socialism.asp

lol that's where I got my info. but how is it socialism when the government is taking money from payroll tax and giving it back to you for paying? That's like buying a video card and getting a rebate for buying it. You pay for it so it's fair you get compensated for it. Also here's the link to the actual website.
https://www.ssa.gov/history/ottob.html

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The system where you can be elected for life is common in most democracies: the UK has it and both Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair were elected three times.

I don't like aspects of the Venezuelan system, as I intensely dislike aspects of the UK and US systems. There is however, nothing to merit the irrational hostility of the American government or its media, much less sanctions.

i dont care for that wether they win three times or not based off of on merit what I care about is the Venezuelan government is over stepping boundaries and committing fraud with its elections. I did a google search the company responsible for those machines use to think that their was no rigging until they decided now to check it out. that's problematic. They didn't even let opposition members participate in their elections and count the votes.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/0...n-turnout.html
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/ar...zuela-election
It's one thing to lie and win an election plenty of politicians do that. It's another to hold a referendum and give absolute power to a body that isn't scantily popular now days.

[Deleted]

Not all of them. Some banks would have died out, new banks would take their place. After all, it's not like there hasn't ever been a massive bank crisis before.

The rest of your post just shows how little you actually know about what you're talking about. 2008 was nothing we haven't gone through and seen before, nor was it nearly as bad as several of the crashes we've had before. The hard truth is that banks fail. Titans fall. The market goes on. You really think that if some major, global banks fail that all trade will cease, all wealth evaporates overnight, law and order breaks down and the world stops turning?

No. We go through a period of nasty economic depression (again, nothing new there), new banks form, or pre-existing banks grow larger to fill in the void left behind by the titans, and the economy bounces back.

You do understand that what you are describing is fucking insane.

I use the phrase "fucking insane" not because I'm particulary angry but because I can't think of a more accurate description.

Do you really think the best system is one where the economy completely collapses every few decades inflicting very high levels of poverty and sheer misery interspersed with disgusting periods of excess and flamboyant ostentation?

[Deathquoi]

Proof that socialism works. We have it right here.

Proof that socialism doesn't work.

But wait! Venezuelan socialism isn't REAL socialism!

This is like putting a child in a car seat and locking it in a hot car and then claiming that car seats don't work.

We have several examples where states that incorporate socialist principles and AREN'T run by banana republic dictators are very successful.

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Not all of them. Some banks would have died out, new banks would take their place. After all, it's not like there hasn't ever been a massive bank crisis before.

The rest of your post just shows how little you actually know about what you're talking about. 2008 was nothing we haven't gone through and seen before, nor was it nearly as bad as several of the crashes we've had before. The hard truth is that banks fail. Titans fall. The market goes on. You really think that if some major, global banks fail that all trade will cease, all wealth evaporates overnight, law and order breaks down and the world stops turning?

No. We go through a period of nasty economic depression (again, nothing new there), new banks form, or pre-existing banks grow larger to fill in the void left behind by the titans, and the economy bounces back.

The only reason why 2008 wasn't as bad as other crashes is BECAUSE of the bailout. Why are so many idiot "'MURICA!" MMO-C posters completely blind to things like "cause and effect" and "logical arguments"?

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lol that's where I got my info. but how is it socialism when the government is taking money from payroll tax and giving it back to you for paying? That's like buying a video card and getting a rebate for buying it. You pay for it so it's fair you get compensated for it. Also here's the link to the actual website.
https://www.ssa.gov/history/ottob.html

That's how socialist things work, you pay in and you get money out. You're not getting the money you put in, everyone is paying a percentage of their earnings and then that money is used to give everyone a flat amount of money.

[MoanaLisa]

People who don't know shit about running a country or infrastructure and would rather further their own agendas and run their own echo chambers than do anything properly.

That quote seems strangely familiar. I can't quite put a finger on what it is but it definitely reminds of something....

[Mister Cheese]

That quote seems strangely familiar. I can't quite put a finger on what it is but it definitely reminds of something....

That's funny. But we have 3 branches of government and a system of checks and balances to make sure Trump can't step over the line like he's tried to several times.

[jimboa24]

Actually this was the biggest bank crisis. And showed that the unregulated bank system in america didnt work, thanks to endless speculation bubbling.

2008 was completely different to what was seen before, as it hit the house owners in america very hard. The speculators bet on a market that infact didnt exist, and loans were given noone was ever able to pay.

No, this was not the "biggest" bank crisis. Only the most recent. It seems bigger because we have more people in the U.S. now, but if you adjust for inflation, 2008 is not the biggest nor the worst we've ever had. Again, 1896 was easily worse.

And the market did exist, but it was way well inflated beyond what was sustainable. Again...just about every crash in history (just look at the list I made) happens exactly for the same reason (too much money is invested in an unstable, unreliable and unsustainable market. Nothing is new, and the fact that you're insisting that this was somehow WAAAAAY different from everything that's come before just proves you know absolutely nothing about any of the other economic crashes America has had before.

If the government hadnt intervened, thousands of people would have to live on the streets. So much for "uncontrolled capitalism".

Thousands of people would have been on the street? You mean like in every single other major crash we've had before? Like in 1901, 1929, 1893 and 1792 just to name a few? You act like this is something unique to this generation and this time. It isn't. You know nothing.

No, but banks are way too powerful nowadays. They should not be. They should be under democratic control, and not control democracy, as like in a country which is literally owned by Goldman Sachs.

Oh yes, all banks being tightly controlled by the government. What could POSSIBLY go wrong there?

There is no "depression", infact we have economical growth, in special in countries which have social market economy and bank regulation. Learn from it, libertarian.

You fail at reading comprehension. Here I was running down what would have happened if the banks had been allowed to die.

Pure capitalism failed. Because it is inhumane, and it isnt working on the bank sector and with monopolism. Capitalism needs state driven control..

No one is arguing for pure capitalism with no laws and no regulations of any kind. But that isn't the same thing as arguing for socialism either.

[Deleted]

i dont care for that wether they win three times or not based off of on merit what I care about is the Venezuelan government is over stepping boundaries and committing fraud with its elections. I did a google search the company responsible for those machines use to think that their was no rigging until they decided now to check it out. that's problematic. They didn't even let opposition members participate in their elections and count the votes.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/0...n-turnout.html
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/ar...zuela-election
It's one thing to lie and win an election plenty of politicians do that. It's another to hold a referendum and give absolute power to a body that isn't scantily popular now days.

The allegations are being made by Smartmatic the machine manufacturer based in London. They are a large conglomerate who would benefit to the tune of millions of dollars at least in the event of pro-american regime being installed in Venezuela. They are also headed by a former VP of the world bank, that similarly has an ideological agenda opposed to socialism and open free markets. For that reason I don't trust them any more than the Venezuelan government. I would also be sceptical if someone claimed "The US election was rigged because a company headed by a former Castro aide and international communist delegate said so".

Btw I have yet to see any account of the practical impact of the vote. I assume that is because it is probably less controversial than the hyperbole suggests.

[Deleted]

That's funny. But we have 3 branches of government and a system of checks and balances to make sure Trump can't step over the line like he's tried to several times.

And he tries to get rid of them. Starting at the free press and denouncing them as "fake news".

[jimboa24]

You do understand that what you are describing is fucking insane.

I use the phrase "fucking insane" not because I'm particulary angry but because I can't think of a more accurate description.

Do you really think the best system is one where the economy completely collapses every few decades inflicting very high levels of poverty and sheer misery interspersed with disgusting periods of excess and flamboyant ostentation?

Nice try at putting words in my mouth. Having a major economic crash once or twice every generation to weed out unsound and unstable/unsustainable businesses and business practices is not, and never has been, the same thing as having an economy that "completely collapses every few decades inflicting very high levels of poverty and sheer misery interspersed with disgusting periods of excess and flamboyant ostentation".

It has, however, been how our economy has operated since before we were even the United States, and can continue to operate in perpetuity if we don't fuck around with European socialism or communism.

[Mister Cheese]

And he tries to get rid of them. Starting at the free press and denouncing them as "fake news".

I seriously hope you do understand that it's impossible for him to do so.

[Deleted]

Nice try at putting words in my mouth. Having a major economic crash once or twice every generation to weed out unsound and unstable/unsustainable businesses and business practices is not, and never has been, the same thing as having an economy that "completely collapses every few decades inflicting very high levels of poverty and sheer misery interspersed with disgusting periods of excess and flamboyant ostentation".

It has, however, been how our economy has operated since before we were even the United States, and can continue to operate in perpetuity if we don't fuck around with European socialism or communism.

I think you have a very poor understanding of the crash. The big banks weren't just threatened. Every major bank or instrument of capital allocation was threatened across the globe. People were pulling their money out of things which had no direct exposure to sub-prime or anything to do with it. This is not something you can just wish away as creative destruction.

[Magemaer]

Not putting my finger on the socialism works or not debate, as it goes way deeper.

But if you give almost total control of a country to a succession of tyrannical imbeciles it is not unexpected that after some years you find this country in ruins. Bad government can and often does ruin countries, nothing new here.

But boy i feel bad for venezuelans =/ they're in a shitstorm without any sign of improvement on the horizon.

[Deleted]

No, this was not the "biggest" bank crisis.

You ignore the fact the state intervened and managed to compensate most problems.

And the market did exist, but it was way well inflated beyond what was sustainable.

The market didnt exist as it adressed customers which normally wouldnt create demands as they just dont own enough funds to buy houses. The banks sold them loans they could not pay, and infact created a demand whichs cost couldnt be sustained.

Again...just about every crash in history happens exactly for the same reason

Yeah, and that is unregulated capitalism. Every few years this leads to a new catastrophe. When will you "pure capitalism"-advocates start to learn from all the mistakes of the past?

Do you want to create another "black friday" just because america isnt able to get over its idea capitalism has to be unregulated?

Thousands of people would have been on the street? You mean like in every single other major crash we've had before? Like in 1901, 1929, 1893 and 1792 just to name a few? You act like this is something unique to this generation and this time. It isn't.

It actually was unique in 2008 just because of the number of victims it would have caused if the state hadnt intervened. And still you dont seem to learn from the past.

Oh yes, all banks being tightly controlled by the government. What could POSSIBLY go wrong there?

We could have no black fridays anymore. You know, a social market economy cares for unemployment, and the massive consequencies of just another uncontrolled speculation bubble would just be way less problematic.

No one is arguing for pure capitalism with no laws and no regulations of any kind. But that isn't the same thing as arguing for socialism either.

I am talking about social market economy and not about your standard scapegoat you take for every change in society towards social safety. You and your alikes follow ideas which already have been disproven a thousand times.

[Almaric]

Proof that socialism works. We have it right here.

Another Trumpdrone confusing Socialism with Totalitarianism. Please go back to school.

[Mister Cheese]

Another Trumpdrone confusing Socialism with Totalitarianism. Please go back to school.

Another communist that's confused on what the final result of socialism always ends up being.

[Deleted]

That's funny. But we have 3 branches of government and a system of checks and balances to make sure Trump can't step over the line like he's tried to several times.

Didn't stop Bush did it? You had a crazy religous lunatic invading a country in violation of international law and killing hundreds of thousands.

If the Republicans ever elect someone with a fucking brain they'll be able to do whatever they want with the constitution. Capital already owns almost all the politicians and has substantial influence over the judiciary, nothing can really stop it.