The irony and hypocrisy of Brexit

[Teleros]

That is a no/yes/sort of?

It's a "sort of".

= + =

Please, please, I beg you. Explain to me why British employers would rather employ non-UK EU nationals.

Lower labour costs and/or a better work ethic amongst the non-UK workers, I imagine.

Who's forcing them?

Nobody...?

Well okay, you might be able to argue that large companies have a legal fiduciary responsibility to maximise profits for the shareholders, but meh, I'm not sure that can account for all of it.

= + =

The UK is a democracy, thus the British public is responsible for their government.
So no, to the outside world there is no difference between the British government and Britain in regards of responsibility.

The video may have been tongue in cheek, but it's still pretty accurate in a lot of ways. Pretty much every PM since "Yes, Minister" came out has said how true to life that show is, amusingly / scarily enough.

In addition, you must remember that it's usually a case of picking the lesser of two evils - I really doubt very many people, including those who write them, agree 100% with ANY party's manifesto.

There's also the issue of unexpected things coming up. If you've just been elected but haven't mentioned, say, EU fisheries reform, and then EU fisheries reform is raised at an EU level, the public doesn't really get its say on the matter, because it had no idea it was going to be a topic.

[Pann]

I disagree, whilst they would not have got into power I think they would have got more of the vote. Cameron tried nullify them in the 2015 election by promising the referendum and they still increased their vote share by nearly 10%.

Why? There is nothing to suggest that UKIP would do an acceptable job let alone a good one if they were elected to Parliament.

Cameron's actions were entirely for the benefit of the Conservative party, UKIP were never a serious contender but they were eating away at the Tory voting base and it was a concern, at the time, that if the Cons lost votes they would be unable to form a coalition. Cameron offered a referendum thinking that this would be enough to stop Con voters voting UKIP and that once in coalition the Lib Dems would vote down a referendum - it was a win/win for Cameron.

However Milliband was ineffective and the Lib Dems collapsed giving the Cons a majority. If this had not happened UKIP would continue to attract votes but they would never be an actual prospect of taking more than a seat or two.

[Huehuecoyotl]

What a regressive video harping on about the good old days of the past century. Progressive brexiteers and the country have moved on and look forward to the future, independent and free. Just in the last 7 days wonderful news to look forward to from the US/UK trade deal, something the EU can only dream of.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...21674987761664

Today we can look forward to control of our borders, unlimited EU migrants in the millions straining UK public services no more, brilliant.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br...-idUSKBN1AG16X

And again this week German investment post brexit recognising superior British free enterprise and skills.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40718892

3 good reasons in just a week for brexit, and not a daily express link in sight, got to feel sorry for those stuck in the past weepy remainers. Brexit can't come soon enough and let the good times roll. Got to move with the times kiddos, the EU is so last century.

Let me guess, you didn't actually read any of the stuff you linked. You just hoped that nobody else would read it and realise that it wasn't the brilliant news you made out, right?

The Mini story, for example, makes it clear that they are only going to build it there because that's where the Mini is already built, so it won't need significant investment to proceed. It also makes it clear that it relies on an optimistic view of what is likely to come out of the Brexit talks, and that any failure to maintain a tariff free link between the EU and UK would threaten the economics of the deal. And if we followed the kind of Brexit that your blithering posts tends to posit, that would guarantee it would fall apart.

I won't bother pulling the US/UK trade deal news apart, because anyone with sense knows that deal would be pretty simple; it would be the US telling us to bend over, spread our cheeks and be prepared for an absence of lube. Only idiots would believe that our position would allow for anything other than that.

Your cheerful nonsense continues to go against all available facts, or at least it does in the world that the rest of us inhabit.

[Rockyreg]

Why? There is nothing to suggest that UKIP would do an acceptable job let alone a good one if they were elected to Parliament.

Cameron's actions were entirely for the benefit of the Conservative party, UKIP were never a serious contender but they were eating away at the Tory voting base and it was a concern, at the time, that if the Cons lost votes they would be unable to form a coalition. Cameron offered a referendum thinking that this would be enough to stop Con voters voting UKIP and that once in coalition the Lib Dems would vote down a referendum - it was a win/win for Cameron.

However Milliband was ineffective and the Lib Dems collapsed giving the Cons a majority. If this had not happened UKIP would continue to attract votes but they would never be an actual prospect of taking more than a seat or two.

I didn't say they would do an acceptable job, I said they would not have got into power. I agree Cameron's actions were for the benefit of the Conservative party but he was worried enough about UKIP to offer the referendum, obviously he was not worried about them actually getting into any sort of power.

The facts are, proportionally in 2015 UKIP should have got around 78 MPs based upon their vote share.

[Dhrizzle]

No, it wasn't.

It was a move to protect their culture and native heritage from the globalists.

Why is that hard to understand, and or, why are you against that?

A lot of people voted to leave because they didn't understand the costs and benefits of EU membership, hence the success of the "£350m a week for the NHS" lie. Anyone who voted for your reasons will be sorely disappointed as the UK will have a much quieter voice in a global society and the drop off in immigration from the EU will have to be made up from other sources, likely Commonwealth countries such as India and Pakistan.

[Pann]

I didn't say they would do an acceptable job, I said they would not have got into power. I agree Cameron's actions were for the benefit of the Conservative party but he was worried enough about UKIP to offer the referendum, obviously he was not worried about them actually getting into any sort of power.

The facts are, proportionally in 2015 UKIP should have got around 78 MPs based upon their vote share.

Their inability to do an acceptable job would ultimately mean that any seats they gained would be (quickly) lost thus if they were handed some sort of power via PR the UKIP bubble would be quite spectacularly burst. Cameron was worried about the Con party nothing else, had he not tried to counter them then, maybe, Milliband would be PM and Brexit would be a stupid word no-one had heard of. Nige would, of course, still be drinking pints and beating his anti-EU drum whilst having his snout firmly in the EU trough.

Facts are UKIP are a shambles of a party who got one seat which they promptly lost.

[Dhrizzle]

Can you imagine how powerful they could have become under a PR voting system though, I think many more would have voted for them if they didn't think they were just chucking their vote away

I reckon less would have voted UKIP if they thought it would count for more than a protest on a single issue, a lot of their members represent the worst of the Tories that mainstream Conservatives have left behind.

[Pann]

I had never concidered that angle before, mainly because the Lib-Dems have been an irrelevance even when they had a seat at the table.

The Tories aren't above ignoring major manefesto promises (they have been promising to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands since 2010, and even with brexit that promise looks unlikely to be delivered), and if it had suited their purpose to ignore their referendum promise they would have. Cameron's realistic fear was the Tories would loose more MPs to ukip, this lead to a referendum to quell the decades old eu-sceptasism within the Tory party and it backfired spectacularly.

I think maybe you are selling the Lib Dems a bit short.

Has reducing immigration ever been a manifesto pledge or is another sound bite that gets played over and over? (I genuinely don't know) Agreed that once the Cons had a majority it was impossible to ignore the referendum promise but had they ended up in coalition, once again, it would have been a choice of no referendum and being in Government or not I can't see the Euro sceptic Tories going against that.

[Wikiy]

Lower labour costs and/or a better work ethic amongst the non-UK workers, I imagine.

Enact a law where salaries are put upfront in any job advert, so that discrimination is effectively removed. That way, the costs of a Pole and a Brit will be the same.

[Deleted]

Enact a law where salaries are put upfront in any job advert, so that discrimination is effectively removed. That way, the costs of a Pole and a Brit will be the same.

They just about are, to be fair. At least for the types of jobs where the country you come from makes a difference, such as blue collar jobs and hospitality. Those are minimal wage, or about a pound over minimal wage, and nobody expects anything more.

Problem is with the employer and employee work ethic. An employer can 'ask' the Pole/Romanian/Spanish individual to come to work earlier, leave later, do the shittier jobs, cut hours on the book, etc. While the pay will be roughly the same, most locals won't tolerate that sort of bullshit for long, while foreigners would not know who and how to contact about shitty bosses, and have a smaller network of people who can help them to find a new job. Hard work doesn't really depend on nationality, there's grafters and lazy assholes, whether they're British or not.

[Wikiy]

They just about are, to be fair. At least for the types of jobs where the country you come from makes a difference, such as blue collar jobs and hospitality. Those are minimal wage, or about a pound over minimal wage, and nobody expects anything more.

Problem is with the employer and employee work ethic. An employer can 'ask' the Pole/Romanian/Spanish individual to come to work earlier, leave later, do the shittier jobs, cut hours on the book, etc. While the pay will be roughly the same, most locals won't tolerate that sort of bullshit for long, while foreigners would not know who and how to contact about shitty bosses, and have a smaller network of people who can help them to find a new job. Hard work doesn't really depend on nationality, there's grafters and lazy assholes, whether they're British or not.

It's still Brits being the employers, though. It's not foreigners stealing jobs from Brits. It's foreigners being given jobs by other Brits.

[Teleros]

Enact a law where salaries are put upfront in any job advert, so that discrimination is effectively removed. That way, the costs of a Pole and a Brit will be the same.

First off, what's to stop me going into the interview and saying "I know you're offering X, but I'll do it for less"... or for that matter, for Poles perhaps unused to UK workplace laws etc from not taking advantage of said laws and thus indirectly being cheaper?

Second, this will effectively scupper an awful lot of bargaining power on the part of employees. There'd be uproar amongst the trade unions, just for starters.

[dribbles]

Your cheerful nonsense continues to go against all available facts, or at least it does in the world that the rest of us inhabit.

The world you live in has the equivalence of battery hens, scared to look outside the EU coop. Thankfully the will of the British people is for the free range version of life. Anyone who still wants to live in merkels hen house has the time to leave the UK for Europe, but quickly the clock is ticking, for the rest of us progressive free rangers, who had the courage to vote leave, a world awaits...

[luckydevours]

The world you live in has the equivalence of battery hens, scared to look outside the EU coop. Thankfully the will of the British people is for the free range version of life. Anyone who still wants to live in merkels hen house has the time to leave the UK for Europe, but quickly the clock is ticking, for the rest of us progressive free rangers, who had the courage to vote leave, a world awaits...

You seem mentally disordered! I would advise visiting a psychologist.

(Infracted) ~ Minor Flaming

[Kallisto]

Brexit is not about the EU forcing the UK to accept foreigners, it's about the UK government forcing British employers to hire UK citizens by limiting their access to the EU market.

But why. Please answeer without petty nationalism or appeal to emotion on citizenship. Why should a human who fell out of a vagina one side of a border have more rights to work than a person on the other side. Pure logic, rason, without jumping to outdated stupid things like nationist bullshit.

[Mormolyce]

So how's the negotiations going for how much lube will be on the dick that fucks you up the arse?

The world you live in has the equivalence of battery hens, scared to look outside the EU coop. Thankfully the will of the British people is for the free range version of life. Anyone who still wants to live in merkels hen house has the time to leave the UK for Europe, but quickly the clock is ticking, for the rest of us progressive free rangers, who had the courage to vote leave, a world awaits...

Kind of sounds like instead of voting leave, you should've just left.

[dribbles]

So how's the negotiations going for how much lube will be on the dick that fucks you up the arse?

Not sure the EU has a dick, if it does it is so small with or without lube we can't feel a thing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/31/o...good-news.html

Unemployment falling month on month since the vote, manufacturing orders at 30 year highs, retail sales 3% up year on year, exports 10% up since the vote...

[caervek]

I don't live in the UK but what I've said before applies here again.

This is what happens when you elect right wingnuts to power.

I'd take you're "tories" over our Republicans any day though.

The people we elected weren't the problem, the public were. The decision to leave the EU was a nationwide vote and despite the country in general being in favour of remaining in the EU the Brexit side won simply because more of them showed up to vote.

It was a complete farce, the Leave campaign flat out lied and misled voters while all the inept Remain campaign did was give voters the impression that it was such a forgone conclusion and they didn't need to take part, great job.

End result is we're now leaving (once we have set up our own local and more expensive copies of the bureaucracy we're supposedly escaping from) despite most people being against it and our weak willed politicians too afraid to halt anything.

On the plus side, it *should* only fuck our country for a decade or two at which point we will hopefully be allowed to apply to rejoin.

[Noradin]

End result is we're now leaving (once we have set up our own local and more expensive copies of the bureaucracy we're supposedly escaping from) despite most people being against it and our weak willed politicians too afraid to halt anything.

So the politicans you elected are the problem.

[Deleted]

The people we elected weren't the problem, the public were. The decision to leave the EU was a nationwide vote and despite the country in general being in favour of remaining in the EU the Brexit side won simply because more of them showed up to vote.

I wouldn't call wales a country. It's only the bit stuck on the side of England where they speak like murlocs.
The scotch aren't much better. They were too scared to take their shot at independence which ironically means they're coming out of the EU.