I know I am in the vast minority..

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

..."Even Preach"...? He's got some insight when it comes to raid design? Is he some sort of authority or just another Youtuber?

I say that "less is more" just translates into "less is less" when it comes to raid design, unless it makes sense for a certain boss to just have 3 major abilities and little complexity. Considering the overall quality of raid encounters in the past 3 expansions, I'll stick with thinking that they need to continue on the tracks they're currently riding, with a return to having more environmental mechanics as well (like BrF), not "less mechanics but less forgiving"...

I know wow is a numbers game without mechanics and that's sounds super fucking boring. I feel the game could benefit for harder tuning and gear requirements in mythic but that's it.

[ComputerNerd]

Thats true but Blizzard could have fixed this and actually sort of did in WoD where the easy content wasn't as rewarding and that was clearly a better system.
Letting players get the best items in the game for AFKing in LFR is absolutely ridiculous.

The problem is them getting them from content not aimed at them.
That they are not sufficiently incentivised to run the right content.
As long as LFR offers anything to those players, then they will be there.
And nerfing the gear drops not relevant to them isn't solving that, and nerfing those which are is hurting the wrong people not those causing the problem.
It should be forcibly denied to them as an option.
Do a boss, get the choice of a loot chance and a lockout, or no loot and no lockout.

[ComputerNerd]

Nope, would not like this at all and Ion seemed to agree. I like being able to run LFR and still be able to do a casual Normal run with my guild every week.

Ion was contradictory.
He made an argument about not punishing players, yet that is exactly what reducing LFR's rewards does.
If hurts those who aren't the problem.

Those who are the real tourists, those who can do higher formats but come into LFR for "easy mode".
If you find that to a problem, then that speaks volumes about what you get out of LFR - and it wasn't the experience, it was the loot which is still attractive to you despite you running normal.

[Phookah]

..but I was wondering if there are others that play the game like I do?

LFR is my end game. I never do any mythic dungeons and just depend on LFD to get groups for dungeons I have to complete for quests like my class campaign.

I do have 3 legendaries on my main and my ilevel is 897. I am waiting for 7.3 to push that up over 900.

I would love to know if there other extreme casuals around..

You're actually the vast majority.

[Deleted]

..."Even Preach"...? He's got some insight when it comes to raid design? Is he some sort of authority or just another Youtuber?

I say that "less is more" just translates into "less is less" when it comes to raid design, unless it makes sense for a certain boss to just have 3 major abilities and little complexity. Considering the overall quality of raid encounters in the past 3 expansions, I'll stick with thinking that they need to continue on the tracks they're currently riding, with a return to having more environmental mechanics as well (like BrF), not "less mechanics but less forgiving"...

Just another youtuber.

But he is really honest, logical approach, and for all these years, he never whined once, like other morons feeding their subs with hate,
just to quit and suddenly go "tadaa, now I play Minecraft/random games".

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

I wish you weren't the majority, but sadly you are.
The game is so accessible and requires less and less effort to make the jump to a serious player, but so few do it.

What would it make you want to start playing the game for real?
Do you not want challenge in your game?

[Aggrophobic]

There's no "white knighting", there are actual quarterly reports. They don't go by comparisons to "the worst expansiun!" on a subjective level, they compare profits and commercial success. Legion during the first quarter, performed "slightly ahead" of the same quarter of WoD at the very least. Some people argued that it was "performing slightly ahead" compared to WoD during its entire lifespan, but that logical fallacy shot them in their own feet since that'd suggest that Legion made more in 1 quarter than WoD did in total... which made 800k USD on a (singular) bad year.
I'd love to know how it's "delusional" to go by what they're saying and comparisons made within them.

And "won't change a thing"? I'd say that their new direction with Legion after seeing what happened in WoD, was plenty of change and seemingly the changes needed at that. I know that hurts in the minds of the mindless haters scouring these forums in search of tidbits proving that "WoW is in fact FINALLY dying!!", but that's a small price to pay.

I'm not here to hate on WoW. If I actually hated the game I would not be here at all. I do however dislike what the current dev team is doing. The people I raid with a leaving in droves and from my point of view that makes the game worse. They are not leaving for other games but becuase WoW is not rewarding anymore.

But again, sales shows that the expantion is no hit compared to older ones and thats with the largest team ever.

Oh and Yeah, what you're doing is "white knighting".

[Queen of Hamsters]

I'm not here to hate on WoW. If I actually hated the game I would not be here at all. I do however dislike what the current dev team is doing. The people I raid with a leaving in droves and from my point of view that makes the game worse. They are not leaving for other games but becuase WoW is not rewarding anymore.

But again, sales shows that the expantion is no hit compared to older ones and thats with the largest team ever.

Oh and Yeah, what you're doing is "white knighting".

Sales show that the game is breaking records in profits. It's as much of a hit as can be expected from a game this old, especially coming out of an expansion like WoD and what it did to its image.

And your raid people "leaving in droves" because "WoW is not rewarding anymore", does in no shape or form speak louder than financial reports. If we're going down the road of subjective experiences, then mine are as follows; Same raid activity with vacation season, a ton more world activity than ever before. Yes, even during WOTLK where people coined the phrase "sitting in cities waiting for queues to pop".

But that's good to know, in your world, going by facts and figures as a metric for health of the game = "white knighting" (despite airing negative opinions regularly) and your own subjective experience is what constitutes how the game is REALLY doing...

[Aggrophobic]

Sales show that the game is breaking records in profits. It's as much of a hit as can be expected from a game this old.

And your raid people "leaving in droves" because "WoW is not rewarding anymore", does in no shape or form speak louder than financial reports. If we're going down the road of subjective experiences, then mine are as follows; Same raid activity, a ton more world activity than ever before. Yes, even during WOTLK where people coined the phrase "sitting in cities waiting for queues to pop".

But that's good to know, in your world, going by facts and figures and health of the game = "white knighting" and your own subjective experience is what constitutes how the game is REALLY doing...

What are you even talking about? What records?
You're just making stuff up at this point.

[Teri]

Sales show that the game is breaking records in profits. It's as much of a hit as can be expected from a game this old, especially coming out of an expansion like WoD and what it did to its image.

Care to post any evidence? (not launch numbers that are 11 months old)

We know 3.3 million in 24 hours but not much more.

[Queen of Hamsters]

What are you even talking about? What records?
You're just making stuff up at this point.

http://massivelyop.com/2017/02/09/bl...and-overwatch/

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Care to post any evidence? (not launch numbers that are 11 months old)

See above. There are links to the quarterly reports as well.

Of course, the next quarter can't be predicted, but considering the bad rep the game got during WoD, it's surprising to see just how well it performed in the first quarter. With new content still to come, they're probably not worried about Q2 either though...

But, apparently "it's not a success"... I'd love to have a "not success" netting me a cool 1 billion USD per year.

[Deleted]

http://massivelyop.com/2017/02/09/bl...and-overwatch/

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See above. There are links to the quarterly reports as well.

Of course, the next quarter can't be predicted, but considering the bad rep the game got during WoD, it's surprising to see just how well it performed in the first quarter. With new content still to come, they're probably not worried about Q2 either though...

But, apparently "it's not a success"... I'd love to have a "not success" netting me a cool 1 billion USD per year.

Thanks for the link. I think it deserves a thread for itself.

White knights unite!

[Teri]

But, apparently "it's not a success"... I'd love to have a "not success" netting me a cool 1 billion USD per year.

Profit is profit/success but without actual sub graphs or income divided by type for WoW it's hard to tell details.

Of course WoW had growth year over year if the past year before that had no expansion launch.

10% isn't even a lot, certainly not back to the 10 million sub days at this point in the expansion.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Thanks for the link. I think it deserves a thread for itself.

White knights unite!

Just being overall positive towards the game = being a "White Knight" on these forums, so a thread like that would probably end up locked pretty quickly from all the "YOU'RE A FANBOY!!"-spam...:P

I also love one of the comments; "Yep. We are four months away from the ten-year anniversary of Raph Koster’s post “How Open Big virtual worlds grow” (June 15, 2007) which examined the WoW Insider article “Why are people leaving WoW?”

Billions of dollars of revenue later, it turns out WoW was not quite as dead as some postulated then."

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Profit is profit/success but without actual sub graphs or income divided by type for WoW it's hard to tell details.

Of course WoW had growth year over year if the past year before that had no expansion launch, and all the stories of people quitting WoD after only months.

Since we no longer get sub counts, and they never were accurate descriptions for the overall health of the game (world activity, retention power) anyways, I'mma keep hoping that WoW continues doing well on the profits side. I wanna play this game for 10 more years! Which is in itself quite a feat, considering I was convinced during WOTLK that the game wasn't going to last past "The death of the Lich King!"... Courtesy of forum-dwellers!

[GutsAP]

I guarantee you spend more time doing LFR and waiting in queue than my friend who raids 4 hours per week and is 3/9M.

You should post on the official forums with your LFR shit, you'd get like 1000 upvotes.

[Teri]

Since we no longer get sub counts, and they never were accurate descriptions for the overall health of the game (world activity, retention power) anyways, I'mma keep hoping that WoW continues doing well on the profits side. I wanna play this game for 10 more years! Which is in itself quite a feat, considering I was convinced during WOTLK that the game wasn't going to last past "The death of the Lich King!"... Courtesy of forum-dwellers!

Oh I don't want the game dead or anything at all either, I played it 8.5 years, with 2.5 year break 2013-2016, then now almost 1 year again in september.

It, combined with many hours of warcraft 3 has a special place somewhere.

I'd like some game systems to still change for 8.0 however.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Oh I don't want the game dead or anything at all either, I played it 8.5 years, then now almost 1 year again, with 3 year break.

It, combined with many hours of warcraft 3 has a special place somewhere.

I'd like some game systems to still change for 8.0 however.

Very much agree on that, I might add! ^^

[Xargoth6634]

The majority can't even get through a mythic zero? Not sure if I buy that, from those who are saying it.

[Sibz]

IDK, I don't judge people for having this gameplay style, but I just can't relate to it. I enjoy pushing content in a guild setting. Downing a boss after wiping on it a bunch with friends is a better pay-off than anything I can imagine. Its getting harder and harder to keep a raiding fresh with new blood when everyone is content just to do LFR to see the content. I could never be satisfied with that.

[Deleted]

lol no. Raiders have always been the extreme minority in WoW, even when endgame was literally "raid or die."



Why is it sad that they cater to LFR/Normal/Heroic players? Mythic raiders make up less than 5% of the WoW population. Why cater to that group?

Yet game does everytig to force players into raiding. All the difficulty levels and specialy LFR. Instead having meaningfull challenging world content like it was back in vannila they just throw everyone into raiding.

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The majority can't even get through a mythic zero? Not sure if I buy that, from those who are saying it.

Yes they can get trough mythic 0.

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I wish you weren't the majority, but sadly you are.
The game is so accessible and requires less and less effort to make the jump to a serious player, but so few do it.

What would it make you want to start playing the game for real?
Do you not want challenge in your game?

Well first of all. Remove difficulty levels. Thats would totaly bring me back to bother with current mythic raiding.

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A vast amount of people play as you do. If you enjoy pushing your ilevel, I'd be remiss not to tell you that using the LFD for a Normal difficulty raid isn't all that difficult, and if you find a good group, can easily be done in 1 1/2 or 2 hours. I do it on my alts, which I also play very casually.

Good luck and happy hunting.

Vas majority play to see content not to boost their numbers on character. Well atles not now since those numbers stop meaning anything as Blizzard completly destroyed gear progression and made epics and now even legedary items common thing. True reward is to see content and Blizzard allowed us to see it in LFR. No point goin beyond that if you ask me.