Handsome Her cafe in Brunswick, Melbourne charges men 18% ‘gender gap’ surcharge

[Logwyn]

Their web site is a blinking seizure inducing makes your eyes bleed one.

[primalmatter]

Not even surprised at this point im just curious when this ride is finally going to slam into a concrete wall.

[Deleted]

Pretty sure that openly stating something like that is illegal.

Is having to read and comprehend the article you offer legal advice on recommended by high falutin lawyers like yourself?

[Deleted]

Isn't Australia like SJW central?

At least, that's what I always read on the internet, no idea honestly.

[Darkeon]

Don't go there, while making sure people know how they operate their business, so that they too can avoid it, if they so wish. It's that simple.

[Grapemask]

Maybe if they are read by morons ignoring key factors like type of job, hours of work put in, pay negotiation skills, previous job experience, life priorities of the employee and life plans, job dedication for example.

Factoring those in makes the wage gap disappear, its illegal to have any actual wage gap for the reasons of sex discrimination. If a company actualy does discriminate like that they would be sued for way more than they'd save on an employee by artificially lowering their wage. The same laws protect men from being discriminated against, the venue in the title does that openly and they should be facing legal consequences and business destroying fines. I think they should be made an example of so that no other sexist aka feminist - which ever you prefer to call them - will not dare to flaunt their misandry and base their business policies on it.

False, they do not make it disappear. When all factors are made equal, the gap still exists - it's just much smaller than the most vocal proponents of it say it is. But it's still large enough to be significant (I should point out that, when all factors are considered, Australia is one of the world's largest offenders in pay gaps - 18% is actually not that far off). Consider that even a 2% gap would mean it's as large as last year's inflation, or, that a woman is economically one year behind a man. A 3% gap would be equivalent to the average annual raise, meaning a woman is an entire raise behind a man - and if that's so insignificant, why do we want raises so badly?

This idea that because it's illegal, it therefore doesn't happen, is so absurd that I'm not sure I'm supposed to take it seriously. The neckbeards in this thread itself are exactly why pay gap lawsuits are rarely successful; it is notoriously difficult to prove a cause of discrimination, and by even taking legal action, you are putting a black mark on your name in the job market - not to mention probably losing or lost that job you're suing over.

Then we can get to other fun things, like the findings from Harvard researchers that women who negotiate for better pay are significantly more likely to be punished for doing so, but that's neither here nor there I suppose.

[Aeula]

Isn't that illegal?

Also it's a Vegan Cafe, those places are hives of scum and villainy.

[unbound]

So a cafe in Melbourne is trying to corect the imaginary pay gap of 18%. How long are we going to pretend it actually exists? It has been debunked evey time you compare apples to apples instead of oranges.

What are your thoughts on this?

Well, it isn't 18%, but there is a pay gap. Here has what has actually been debunked:
- That there is a 15% to 25% gender gap
- There there is no gender gap
- That it is a simple issue

https://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/1210812...explained-real

Instead, the workforce disadvantages women in subtler ways — ways that ultimately show up in their paycheck but don’t always begin there. The highest-paying jobs disproportionately reward those who can work the longest, least flexible hours.

These types of job penalize workers who have caregiving responsibilities outside the workplace. Those workers tend to be women.

As Goldin put it in her speech, "The gender gap in pay would be considerably reduced and might even vanish if firms did not have an incentive to disproportionately reward individuals who worked long hours and worked particular hours."

Take a look at this picture:



Notice anything particularly big in that information? Only one data point out of about 75 is very, very slightly positive. Every other data point shows a wage gap. That means, on average, in reality, there is a gap.

Now, with that said, read the entire article to understand the complexity of the issue so you no longer look foolish trotting out "it was debunked" nonsense.

In regards to the cafe, I think they are being stupid. But they would be far from the first business to do something stupid.

[Nazrark]

So the reason why the 'gap' is so unbalanced is because there are less women in manual labor jobs which men are the majority. There is also not very much women in STEM fields. So men make more money because of that. Women still make the same amount as men in those fields. It's just that there isn't women going into those fields in the same numbers as men. So on average, men make more money than women do. Just because the statistics are skewed that way.

Essentially it's comparing numbers of everyone who works.

As for the charging more for being male. You are going to find out alienating a portion of your already small client base is not going to do well.

[Sunseeker]

So the reason why the 'gap' is so unbalanced is because there are less women in manual labor jobs which men are the majority. There is also not very much women in STEM fields. So men make more money because of that. Women still make the same amount as men in those fields. It's just that there isn't women going into those fields in the same numbers as men. So on average, men make more money than women do. Just because the statistics are skewed that way.

Essentially it's comparing numbers of everyone who works.

As for the charging more for being male. You are going to find out alienating a portion of your already small client base is not going to do well.

WRONG.

This was literally debunked in not one, but two posts directly before yours.

The wage gap does not compare "all women" to "all men" averaging out professions everywhere. Any study that did that would be ridiculous on it's face. You compare similar jobs (a male nurse to a female nurse) with similar working experience (5 years to 5 years) with a similar background (a standard RN and a standard RN) and similar hours worked (40 hrs to 40 hrs). When the variables are controlled so we are comparing apples to apples, women come out consistently behind men. Not always by a lot, but consistently by some.

[ItachiZaku]

I'll just go give bad reviews on yelp. No biggie.

[Deleted]

how to advertisement 101... create something stupid with hyped words and let people share the stupid idea on facebook = free publicity...

[Deleted]

That's great! The gender gap (and orgasm gap) is a huge obstacle that we need to tear down to make society equal like before when we were hunterers and gatherers.

[Ryme]

Unsure on the legality, but I say let them and let the market play out. The information on this is so wide spread now that if you're not aware of it you're probably not that bothered by it.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.facebook.com/handsomeherbrunswick/

I recommend having a read, many cringe induced laughs were had.

[s_bushido]

The neckbeards in this thread

It's always amusing to hear people arguing about equality, fairness, and discrimination making blanket demeaning statements about the "other side" of the issue. Even more so considering it's pretty ubiquitous amongst the holier-than-thou "we're just fighting for rights!" crowd. Not everyone who is unwilling to swallow manipulated statistics and the idea that women need their hands held in job hunting is a neckbeard, basement-dwelling, cishet white devil. Just a little FYI. Fight bigotry with a little less bigotry, eh?

[cubby]

So a cafe in Melbourne is trying to corect the imaginary pay gap of 18%. How long are we going to pretend it actually exists? It has been debunked evey time you compare apples to apples instead of oranges.

What are your thoughts on this?

Instead of getting a job in a industry that pays well, it's better to victimize yourself from an invisble bogeyman.




http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/foo...5240f157774e31

I love that the article quotes the owners as saying they "have a stack of support" for their policy. Like they would say otherwise: "yeah, well, gee, this was a fucking disaster of an idea . . . ."

Speaking of which, I give the restaurant a month. Lol. Plus, yeah, vegan.

[ro9ue]

SMH. Starbucks are considered quality now ? :/

On the spectrum of quality, it's one of the better cafes near me. My options are Donut Connection (horrid) Dunkin Donuts (meh) and Starbucks (okay). I'm in a suburban area so we dont have a bunch of small niche cafes like the cities do.

[Deleted]

Easy solution; don't go in there. You don't pay more, and they'll make less. Everyone wins.

[ro9ue]

This guy can explain it better.

Jordan Peterson explains everything better.

[Deleted]

That number just takes the overall income and disregard relevant data like type of jobs and subtype (IE: More women goes in pediatrics while most men go in more hands-on subdomains for instance, like radiologists).

When taking everything in consideration, the gap fall to roughly 4%. Still there, but minimal.

The irony in saying radiologists are more hands on than pediatricians