"How Identity Became a Weapon Against the Left"

[Mormolyce]

I am pretty anti-SJW, so I disagree with a lot of the policies the author of this article supports, though not all... However, I agree with her sentiments on the topic of identity politics. She mainly focuses on the harm it causes progressives, but as far as I am concerned it harms everyone, especially us in the center who don't care for the fringe right or the fringe left, since the very act of not supporting ultra progressive positions is usually met with accusations of bigotry.

AKA I read through a nuanced opinion on a topic and cherry picked all the parts that made my opposition look bad while avoiding all the bits that challenge my preconceptions.

[Elegiac]

Hey. Don't be shocked when you don't have the votes to win after vainly saying "we don't need you to win".

I don't recall saying as such, honestly. My gripe with the working class is that the Democrats did have policies tailored to them.

[Dextroden]

Throwing the country under the bus is a pretty terrible crime, yeah.

I mean, doesn't really affect me since I'm a coastal liberal elite, but hey. You got your digs in at the establishment. *thumbs up*

Are you really going to joke about that after calling people woke independents? You have all the vanity.

[Deleted]

Consider for a second that nationalism is identity politics.
Consider how successful in arranging the western world into nation states has been. Consider also how it originated several of the most heinous atrocities humankind has seen.
Identity politics is a tool like any other. Both sides (heh) dip into it one way or another.

OP does well in examples: conjuring the "bernie bro" identity alienated many people. Though I think Sanders was a bad candidate (deals in concepts, much like Trump, rather than actual policies; old school populist), the political machinery of the Democrats created a resentful monster out of them. Same goes for the 50% deplorables: while ostensibly an attempt to reach out, it quickly devolved into something else. Understandably: when you run for office, assessing that 25% of the voter base are beyond redemption (even if true), shows a massive disinterest in the "whole" (which is for who they're supposed to be governing eventually).

Other than pointing examples of bad implementation, I don't think the tool is the problem.
But perhaps we'll come up with something else, and eventually leave it in the XXth century.

[Elegiac]

Are you really going to joke about that after calling people woke independents? You have all the vanity.

I think it's hilarious. I'm the big boogeyman that's coming to turn your kids gay and put a family of brown people next door.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

I.e. "if your issues don't affect working class white males they aren't discussing".

2016 has made a lot of people on the left fucking pansies, to be entirely frank. The demographic coalition that was put together won an astounding victory not a decade ago and the only reason "identity politics" is being cited as a reason for the loss is because of concern trolling from the right.

"White identity politics" has been a thing on the right for decades, and has been successfully mobilised many, many times. That the Democrats fumbled the ball in 2016 is not a failure of ideology, it's a failure of the party.

Stop being a coward.

I.e. "Being a pussy = standing up to people who'd rather destroy rather than nurture."

No. Republicans used it, they failed. People hated them, they got thrown out. Then, the Democrats started using it, the people got fed, they got thrown out. Do you want to play a game where everyone loses?

The cowards will keep playing that game because they need others to push them up. People who care about the world will fight tooth and nails against racism of any kind.

The politics eco-system never wasn't about identity politics at least in America. Can we stop living in a fairy tale where people think the right doesn't use identity politics or that America has used them in the fair of whites for 100 of years....

I never said that wasn't the case at all.

[Dextroden]

I don't recall saying as such, honestly. My gripe with the working class is that the Democrats did have policies tailored to them.

The policy of "Trump has tiny hands and gets peed on by Russian hookers"?

[Elegiac]

I.e. "Being a pussy = standing up to people who'd rather destroy rather than nurture."

No. Republicans used it, they failed. People hated them, they got thrown out. Then, the Democrats started using it, the people got fed, they got thrown out. Do you want to play a game where everyone loses?

The Democrats have been "using" identity politics since before 2008. And you're right, they've never won any sort of national election since...oh, wait.

The cowards will keep playing that game because they need others to push them up. People who care about the world will fight tooth and nails against racism of any kind.

Oh so now we're going from "identity politics" to saying the Democrats are racist.

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The policy of "Trump has tiny hands and gets peed on by Russian hookers"?

No, the policies which were quite clearly elaborated in Hillary's platform that working class people didn't pay attention to because -effort is hard, man-.

[Dextroden]

I think it's hilarious. I'm the big boogeyman that's coming to turn your kids gay and put a family of brown people next door.

I mean. You do believe you are better than everyone that doesn't think like you and unironically shit on people that you'll want to vote for your side in 2020.

I mean. Look how hard Hillary won after calling people she claimed she'd represent as deplorable.

[Elegiac]

I mean. You do believe you are better than everyone that doesn't think like you and unironically shit on people that you'll want to vote for your side in 2020.

I mean. Look how hard Hillary won after calling people she claimed she'd represent as deplorable.

Pfft, who cares about 2020. Country's already fucked.

[Dextroden]

The Democrats have been "using" identity politics since before 2008. And you're right, they've never won any sort of national election since...oh, wait.



Oh so now we're going from "identity politics" to saying the Democrats are racist.

- - - Updated - - -



No, the policies which were quite clearly elaborated in Hillary's platform that working class people didn't pay attention to because -effort is hard, man-.

Probably should focus on policies and actual concerns in the future. Important things. Not like how Trump looks like an Orangutan.

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Pfft, who cares about 2020. Country's already fucked.

Great attitude. I look forward to you bitching about the results of an election you will take a knee on.

[Deleted]

Like so many terms in the world, identity politics are ideally a good tool as mentioned, but can and will be used negatively both due to ignorance and direct manipulation.
Humanity as a whole simply cant use things ideally, and will corrupt them in every twisted way possible.

At least stuff like this moves the world, and if things get too negatively out of hand, an opposite movement will quickly spark and change the world yet again. People who know literature movements through the ages knows what i am talking about. Using words like negatively and positively might be too colored and non-neutral, but i cant help calling actions that leads to the opposite of enlightenment and co-understanding a positive trait. Then again, with some moral nihilism thrown into the mix we could always argue the whole thing is just a set of movement and actions that lead to new ones.

Ultimately all you can hope for is that that you derive joy in some form from the changing of the world.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

The Democrats have been "using" identity politics since before 2008. And you're right, they've never won any sort of national election since...oh, wait.



Oh so now we're going from "identity politics" to saying the Democrats are racist.

- - - Updated - - -



No, the policies which were quite clearly elaborated in Hillary's platform that working class people didn't pay attention to because -effort is hard, man-.

Good try, not what I said.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I.e. "Being a pussy = standing up to people who'd rather destroy rather than nurture."

No. Republicans used it, they failed. People hated them, they got thrown out. Then, the Democrats started using it, the people got fed, they got thrown out. Do you want to play a game where everyone loses?

The cowards will keep playing that game because they need others to push them up. People who care about the world will fight tooth and nails against racism of any kind.



I never said that wasn't the case at all.

The republicans have never stopped using it... The more they used it the more support they get. We get collective amnesia every 8 years round these parts anyone who thought Obama lite would've been unrecoverable wasn't safe able. This shit happened with Kerry as well it cost us 100,000 of American lives and gave us one of the most incompetent administration ever.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

The republicans have never stopped using it... The more they used it the more support they get. We get collective amnesia every 8 years round these parts anyone who thought Obama lite would've been unrecoverable wasn't safe able. This shit happened with Kerry as well it cost us 100,000 of American lives and gave us one of the most incompetent administration ever.

Of course they'll win at that game, they're still a majority and they'll be for the next few decades. That's also part of why the Democrats have to stop being idiots and stop pushing for a divise tactic. They won't win under that banner, humanity won't win with that division and Republicans don't give a shit so long that they get their chair and money for picking their nose and looking down on regular human beings.

[Tiwack]

Vote 3rd party if you want to see a wrench in the gears. I bet that'll show some amazing dexterity from the few politicians who aren't just seat warmers and are actually working towards a brighter future for everyone.

Sometimes you wanna just forget about politics and remind yourself and whoever you're arguing with all the things you've got in common and what a better future looks like to the both of you. Beautiful thing about rights is that they cover everyone. Irregardless of you liking it or not. Play nice and be respectful.
Push to ratify your treaties! People who argue UN is useless fail to understand it's useless because you let it be. If your governments don't ratify the treaties then they simply don't apply to your fellow citizens in your part of the world. This is why US is behind when it comes to basic rights for children and minorities in general. Ironic with the US being a country of minorities.

You're not focused on improving rather than wallowing in your own misery playing the finger game while greedy people are only interested in keeping status quo to take advantage of the chaos while only being in it for themselves and theirs.

[Rennadrel]

What? Hillary was the best person they could pick. Only a sexist that doesn't think women can be President would think that.

It had absolutely fuck all to do with Clinton being a woman and everything to do with her being a less than desirable individual and a poor leader. Her policies, not to mention shady deals and a shady past made her an easy target for the GOP to attack, Sanders would have been far more difficult to take down and they would have had a consistent voter base. Instead, there were no doubt a lot of people who voted Trump to spite the Democrats for not selecting Sanders.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Of course they'll win at that game, they're still a majority and they'll be for the next few decades. That's also part of why the Democrats have to stop being idiots and stop pushing for a divise tactic. They won't win under that banner, humanity won't win with that division and Republicans don't give a shit so long that they get their chair and money for picking their nose and looking down on regular human beings.

You just said republican won because they stopped... Republicans aren't the majority there are more democratic voters than republican voters. They just show up regardless of circumstance and honestly have no spines. When the left saw Hillary corruption they said no but republicans won't return the fair and as usual we'll all learn a lesson at the end. Identity politics aren't going away because all demographics weren't treated equal and never we'll be until genetic engineering is a thing anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking moron.

[Z-Man]

Vote 3rd party if you want to give Trump a second term.

Fixed that for you. This is why Jill Stein gets a seat at the big table with Flynn and Putin.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

You just said republican won because they stopped... Republicans aren't the majority there are more democratic voters than republican voters. They just show up regardless of circumstance and honestly have no spines. When the left saw Hillary corruption they said no but republicans won't return the fair and as usual we'll all learn a lesson at the end. Identity politics aren't going away because all demographics weren't treated equal and never we'll be until genetic engineering is a thing anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking moron.

I did not say that. They've lost because of it. Then the Dems started using it. Then the Dems lost. Republicans win at being the worse and they'll get away with it. Not the Dems. Also, polls are shit. Look at google search, look at the real numbers that happen when people are honest. Trump won and it's easy to witness it if you pull your head out of the Democrat's echo chamber - take a look at the amazing book from NYT writer Seth Stephens-Davidowitz "Everybody Lies" and you'll understand a lot more about what happens in people's collective heads.

If you want to play identity politics from both sides, the Republicans will win, at the very least until the amount of white % goes lower than 50%. The be frank, I'm persuaded that the Democrats lost because they relied too much on conventional data and were too cocky to realize it was a bad idea. The fact that they keep pushing it now just seems like one last wail of desperation, mixed with hurt ego and the fact that, just like the Republicans, they've tasted the identity politics kool-aid.