Car ploughs through protesters at Charlottesville Alt-Right rally

[Jastall]

Then you've failed at understanding Communism and it's direct Parallel to Nazism.

Such as? I'm actually curious to hear your arguments here. How did Nazism take inspiration from the Communists?

[Thepersona]

So you're confusing Comunalism with Communism, as does the shitty writer you're trying to peddle. All this screams is you do not understand Communism.

Communism is a system where the means of production/property is not private, the people owns it. also, there're no classes, or at least there's no extraction of plusvalue from one class, to the betterment of other class.
A communist society is an anarchist one too, at least according to Marx and Bakunin

[Deleted]

Such as? I'm actually curious to hear your arguments here. How did Nazism take inspiration from the Communists?

Not Inspiration, Parallel.

Nazism takes notes from Marxism, in that the Proletariat must overthrow the Bourgeois.

In Communism, the Prole is "The Working class" and the Bourgeois is "Rich people"

in Nazism, the Prole is "The Nationalist" and the Bourgeois is "The Plutocrat"

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Ironic coming from the guy who thinks genocide is part of the communist ideology.

It is. Eventually, Communism will seek to exterminate all Outsider groups opposed to Communism because it's a Marxist ideology.

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Communism is a system where the means of production/property is not private, the people owns it. also, there're no classes, or at least there's no extraction of plusvalue from one class, to the betterment of other class.
A communist society is an anarchist one too, at least according to Marx and Bakunin

Which does not describe Sparta or the Middle Ages, which were Feudalistic in nature.

[Thepersona]

Not Inspiration, Parallel.

Nazism takes notes from Marxism, in that the Proletariat must overthrow the Bourgeois.

In Communism, the Prole is "The Working class" and the Bourgeois is "Rich people"

in Nazism, the Prole is "The Nationalist" and the Bourgeois is "The Plutocrat"

.

False. The Nazis were a Fascist party, and ascended to power primarily due to the 1929 crisis, countering the rise of the german commies (and effectively crushing them), as a bourgeois answer to the problem.
The proletariat is the person who doesn't own the means of production, contrary of the bourgeois. In this case, the nazis tried to kill the jews, who more often than not, were not a bourgeois class (gotta remember, when you work alone/have a small business, you're not a bourgeois).

This is a false equivalency. Communism rose to prominence due to the brutality that had befallen to the working classes in europe, as the 2nd industrial revolution was going in full swing. It tried to give the power back to the workers, because they were the ones who really generated (and still generate) the bulk of the profits of any industry. Nazis rose to prominence to counter that, and to blame a group (the jews) for the grievances of the post ww1 germany. And got to remember, the grievances were because a stupid treaty, done just because of spite. and WW1 was one of the wars with least real motives (apart from the wish to test the new weapons). That war was a failure of epic proportions

[Deleted]

False. The Nazis were a Fascist party, and ascended to power primarily due to the 1929 crisis, countering the rise of the german commies (and effectively crushing them), as a bourgeois answer to the problem.
The proletariat is the person who doesn't own the means of production, contrary of the bourgeois. In this case, the nazis tried to kill the jews, who more often than not, were not a bourgeois class (gotta remember, when you work alone/have a small business, you're not a bourgeois)

That's not false though. To the Nazis, the Plutocratic Jews were the cause of Germany's fall to power, the cause for the Communist uprising and the reason the Weimer republic was poor. The Nazis "overthrew" their Plutocratic oppressors in the exact same logic the Bolsheviks overthrew the Tsarist regime.

Or do you think the Tsarist Regime were somehow "Evil" and deserved to be exterminated wholesale?

Edit: I am not trying to Justify the Nazis, I am merely explaining their methods.

[GennGreymane]

That's not false though. To the Nazis, the Plutocratic Jews were the cause of Germany's fall to power, the cause for the Communist uprising and the reason the Weimer republic was poor. The Nazis "overthrew" their Plutocratic oppressors in the exact same logic the Bolsheviks overthrew the Tsarist regime.

Or do you think the Tsarist Regime were somehow "Evil" and deserved to be exterminated wholesale?

Edit: I am not trying to Justify the Nazis, I am merely explaining their methods.

The Tsars were pretty shitty

[Thepersona]

That's not false though. To the Nazis, the Plutocratic Jews were the cause of Germany's fall to power, the cause for the Communist uprising and the reason the Weimer republic was poor. The Nazis "overthrew" their Plutocratic oppressors in the exact same logic the Bolsheviks overthrew the Tsarist regime.

Or do you think the Tsarist Regime were somehow "Evil" and deserved to be exterminated wholesale?

Edit: I am not trying to Justify the Nazis, I am merely explaining their methods.

The Tsarist Regime was not evil, per se. It was stunningly inept and stupid at trying to push for the war effort, adding to the brutal treatment of the poor in Russia (they were sumarily executed, tortured, raped, and beaten by the regime's militia and police) and that's why it deserved to be toppled (not exterminated). The february and october revolutions were justified, because of that

[Bodakane]

Here's what the right is going to do....

They are going to conflate the legal taking down of Confederate statues in Charlottesville with the one the people pulled down illegally in NC. They will use that conflation to justify what happened in Charlottesville and anywhere else. They will say that true patriots were there to prevent destruction of public property. Mark my words. they ALWAYS do this.

[Jastall]

Not Inspiration, Parallel.

Nazism takes notes from Marxism, in that the Proletariat must overthrow the Bourgeois.

In Communism, the Prole is "The Working class" and the Bourgeois is "Rich people"

in Nazism, the Prole is "The Nationalist" and the Bourgeois is "The Plutocrat"

That's pretty reductive, given that in reality both Nazis and Fascists happily worked with the bourgeois. Hitler was widely supported by the Prussian aristocracy, the industrialists, the military, and the political old guard who named him Chancellor. All of these are the very definition of bourgeoisie. Similarly, Mussolini would never have taken power had the Italian upper class and royalty not supported his bid to restore order. The Nazis were never big on class warfare, they hated Jews but didn't hate only the rich ones, they hated all Jews due to their racist belief that they were an inherently corrupting influence on society.

And the common thread between these two was that they were seen as the last rampart against Communism, and made themselves know precisely by beating up Communists.

So no, I don't see these parallels at all in reality. And the existence of out-groups and in-groups is hardly unique to Communism, it's inherent to almost any ideology, especially extreme ones. Religious fanatics are big fans of defining who are the ''true believers'' and who isn't, does that mean that Catholic reactionaries during the Renaissance or ISIS are inspired by Communists?

[Deleted]

The Tsars were pretty shitty

Russia was a pretty shitty place. The Tsars didn't cause that, because after they were removed, people were WORSE off.

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The Tsarist Regime was not evil, per se. It was stunningly inept and stupid at trying to push for the war effort, adding to the brutal treatment of the poor in Russia (they were sumarily executed, tortured, raped, and beaten by the regime's militia and police) and that's why it deserved to be toppled (not exterminated). The february and october revolutions were justified, because of that

Justified to plunge Russia into another age where people were summarily executed, tortured, raped and beaten, but at least the people doing all of that didn't have fancy hats and mustaches?

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Here's what the right is going to do....

They are going to conflate the legal taking down of Confederate statues in Charlottesville with the one the people pulled down illegally in NC. They will use that conflation to justify what happened in Charlottesville and anywhere else. They will say that true patriots were there to prevent destruction of public property. Mark my words. they ALWAYS do this.

Any Statues being taken down are unjustified.

[GennGreymane]

Russia was a pretty shitty place. The Tsars didn't cause that, because after they were removed, people were WORSE off.

Well they were the leaders for a long time.

[Thepersona]

Russia was a pretty shitty place. The Tsars didn't cause that, because after they were removed, people were WORSE off.

Yeah, they did. that's a lie of you. The war effort (sending millions of people to their deaths) left many fields without people to work them, and many industries with severe deficits of manpower. Add to that the brutal treatment of the poor, the inflation, that the Tsar didnt give a shit about his people... and you get a recipe of revolution

[Deleted]

That's pretty reductive, given that in reality both Nazis and Fascists happily worked with the bourgeois. Hitler was widely supported by the Prussian aristocracy, the industrialists, the military, and the political old guard who named him Chancellor. All of these are the very definition of bourgeoisie. Similarly, Mussolini would never have taken power had the Italian upper class and royalty not supported his bid to restore order. The Nazis were never big on class warfare, they hated Jews but didn't hate only the rich ones, they hated all Jews due to their racist belief that they were an inherently corrupting influence on society.

And the common thread between these two was that they were seen as the last rampart against Communism, and made themselves know precisely by beating up Communists.

So no, I don't see these parallels at all in reality. And the existence of out-groups and in-groups is hardly unique to Communism, it's inherent to almost any ideology, especially extreme ones. Religious fanatics are big fans of defining who are the ''true believers'' and who isn't, does that mean that Catholic reactionaries during the Renaissance or ISIS are inspired by Communists?

No, the ingroup outgroup idea isn't unique to Marxism, but it was a core part of Marxism. Which inspired both Nazism and Communism. There is the Parallel, they are both Marxist political ideologies. They functionally work exactly the same. Also to point out the part in bold.

Because under Nazi ideology, these people were NOT Bourgeois, but part of the Nationalist Proletariat.

[Thepersona]

Justified to plunge Russia into another age where people were summarily executed, tortured, raped and beaten, but at least the people doing all of that didn't have fancy hats and mustaches?

It justified the revolution. What happened next is part thanks to the white army, and Stalin. And no, Soviet Russia was not communist, and even less under Stalin's rule

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There are undoubtedly strong parallels and similarities among how the Spartans organized themselves as a community, but calling it communism wouldn't be correct, because they limited such practices to the elite of their Warrior class.

None of this is controversial if you consider that Marx saw primitive hunter-gather societies as the first form of communism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_communism

Engels said it too (the primitive commies) in his book about the family

[Deleted]

There are undoubtedly strong parallels and similarities among how the Spartans organized themselves as a community, but calling it communism wouldn't be correct, because they limited such practices to the elite of their Warrior class.

None of this is controversial if you consider that Marx saw primitive hunter-gather societies as the first form of communism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_communism

Well, it's controversial because Marx also claimed for Communism to work there must first be Capitalism, So were the cavemen bartering BEFORE they created Communes?

This is the point, Marx is stupid and his observations lacking. People working together is not communism.

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It justified the revolution. What happened next is part thanks to the white army, and Stalin

To the Communists. Because the Revolution was full of execution, torture rape and beatings.

[Bodakane]

ny Statues being taken down are unjustified.

Thanks for proving my point.

You ignored the words legally and illegally and replaced them with the concepts of justified and unjustified.

Which is typical misdirection by conservatives.

As far as justified, you're 100% wrong. Confederate monuments are like monuments to the 9/11 hijackers or to King George or to Tojo.

[Rhamses]

Interesting how a van plowing into people in Spain is an apparent terrorist attack, but a car plowing into people in Virginia isn't an apparent terrorist attack.

Must be because one driver was brown, and the other was white.

[tehealadin]

Interesting how a van plowing into people in Spain is an apparent terrorist attack, but a car plowing into people in Virginia isn't an apparent terrorist attack.

Must be because one driver was brown, and the other was white.

Didn't Jeff Sessions declare that the Virginia attack should be classed as domestic terrorism?

[Rhamses]

Didn't Jeff Sessions declare that the Virginia attack should be classed as domestic terrorism?

If the driver was muslim do you honestly think it would still be debated? It would have been classed as a terrorist attack by the end of Saturday.

[Deleted]

Thanks for proving my point.

You ignored the words legally and illegally and replaced them with the concepts of justified and unjustified.

Which is typical misdirection by conservatives.

When it comes to History, I am indeed a conservative, Statues should not be dissembled and taken down because of "Feelings" They should be remembered. EVERYTHING should be remembered.

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If the driver was muslim do you honestly think it would still be debated?

Because one was in the middle of a riot, the other was unprovoked.