Van ploughs into 'dozens of people' in Barcelona - suspect on run

[Endus]

Oh right. You NEVER said right wing uprising.

And note that phrase. Not Nazi uprising.

Can't link searches, but "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

I have never used that phrase, under any context, in any of my years here. So yes; you are apparently making it up.

In fact, if I just use the term "right-wing uprising" to see who might have used it, the first round of results came from this thread in early July about a KKK rally in Charlottesville, and it's entirely you posting it, and people who were directly quoting your use of it (but did not use it themselves).

The second round goes into this thread about a Labour MP getting shot, back in June 2016. Again, only uses were you, and someone who quoted you saying it.

And the last one goes to a single post by a right-winger in another thread back in June 2016.

So it's basically almost entirely you using that term, at all, in General Off-Topic. In the history of the entire site. You, and one other guy, one time, more than a year ago. Who's also a regular right-wing poster.

Anyone else should feel free to check that by doing an advanced search in General Off-Topic for "right-wing uprising". Go see for yourself. I'd link it, but search links don't work properly here.

[Deleted]

Pick one.

Terrorists represent the whole country.
The terrible people don't represent everybody.

They dont represent the whole country, but the ideologi.

[Slant]

The solution is difficult and, of course, multi-phased.
The very first thing to do is to stop all immigration from muslim countries. A more ambitious version of Donald Trump's travel ban.
It's a piece of propaganda that immigration cannot be stopped or controlled. Australia, Japan, Singapore and the likes are doing a great job at controlling it. Because they don't allow illegal immigration. And are not very interested in asylum seekers. So that's a first, no more immigration. Put the illegal arrivals in camps until they start coorporating about their journey home, like Australia. It's a crime and should be treated as such.

Repatriation on a massive scale is another. The awful news is that many of the people we have taken in as citizens should have never been granted citizenship. Those that we have granted citizenship which do not belong here, living in parallel societies, should be offered a sum of money to return home and renounce their european citizenship. The sum should be large enough that some will actually take the bait. Like 100.000 euro's per person (a financially sound deal in the long run).

Third, some who have been granted permanent residence or even citizenship, including a significant number of somaliis, pakistanis and eritrians (at least here), have since travelled on vacation to the country they "fled" from or sent their children to Quran-schools there. The hammer must fall swiftly, and hard, on these people. It is unknown to me just how common these cases are (not unheard of though), but it will send an important signal to migrants that the winds have shifted, as I see it.

Third, massive government surveillance problems directed towards problematic elements and groups within the society. Today, elements like Hizb-ut-tahrir are going unchecked, even though they often incite to the killing of jews and kuffars. They should not enjoy liberty to undermine the security of others (they are, in other regards, free to speak of course but it stops at threats).

And finally, and this may be my most controversial standpoint. We need a European Guantanamo base, of sorts, where terrorist suspects, returned ISIS fighters etc. are placed. Long-term isolation of prisoners, so they don't make contact with other inmates, is also a matter to be taken seriously. Danish prisons are basically like 3 star hotels and even terrorists convicts and hardcore gang-members are free to contact, and influence, weaker and less determined inmates. This ha to stop.
Death penalty should be reintroduced as well to deal with, in particular, returning ISIS fighters that we have evidence to build a case against - this is also the proposal I myself like the least, but alas, I realize that humanism is a luxury a multicultural Europe can no longer afford.

Now I know at some point I am going to hear "but that is what they want, to divide us" but that is flat-out not true. What ISIS, Hizb-ut-tahrir and islamists want is not division, they want to complete unity under Islam and absolute compliance. That involves taking over Europe, street by street. It's not like they even keep this a secret.

So no, there is no easy solution. But my proposals beat "more barricades on the sidewalks" by miles as it attacks the root cause of the problem: Islam and islamism in Europe. Not all muslims are guilty, but as a group, they certainly carry their share of the responsibility by allowing this to grow in their midst. I am also willing to make another postulate; not every muslim is a terrorist, but the world-view and religion to which muslims adhere, is foul. That is why societies based on islamic values cannot function.

And THIS dear nazis, is a thoughtful post that I can take seriously. Not once did he attack Muslims in general while putting a lot of suggestions into his thread. This dude has done more constructive shit in his post than the rest of you lot did in the entire thread so far.

Thing about stopping illegal immigration... the EU wants to stop it. It's not like any country endorses illegal immigration. It's more a practicality issue than motivation. They come across the ocean in barely suitable dingis and life boats and we can't patrol the Med closely enough to get everyone. I agree with the imprisonment for illegal immigration. However, my plan is a bit more ambitious. I want those spanish exclaves to be our new asylum centres and incidentally, the only asylum centres for North African asylum seekers. If they reach Italy, I'd send them back on the next day, no questions asked. If they want asylum, they'll have to go to those exclaves. The advantage is, if you reject them, they're already on the right side of the Med and we don't have to worry about expensive flight tickets.

We have to get better at sending people back, yes. Much better. But we also have burdened ourselves with a shitton of legislation regarding this, just so we don't accidentally infringe on human rights. You can't ever forget those human rights, otherwise we lose all moral high ground. Just look at what happened to the US these years... total loss of control and sensibility. Europe must be better than that.

About vacation.. I get the logic behind what you're saying, but you shouldn't forget that just because someone successfully immigrated here doesn't mean he stopped having family from where he came from. You cannot deny him the right to visit family and friends. That's just pointlessly cruel. Now, if you're talking refugees that fled from a warzone and then fly back for "vacation"... yeah, I'll agree. Block their re-entry.

I don't see the point of a Guantanamo Bay. It has done nothing for the US but given them a bad reputation. European prisons aren't meant to house terrorists, I agree. But I am not sure what message you want to send the terrorists. That we're civilised human beings that are, in every single way, superior and won't be affected by their attacks, or that they can twist and turn us into being mean assholes that fight dirty as they do?

Death penalty doesn't help at all. See, you're thinking about this the wrong way... These terrorists want to die. How do you threaten someone with death that wants to die? That's right, you don't. Don't even promise them something they want anyway. I prefer your Guantanamo Bay idea to this one. You'd be turning every single one of them into a martyr that they could use to recruit 10 more idiots that want to blow themselves up.

Your proposals aren't stupid. But more barricades is, right now, the simplest, cheapest and quickest short-term solution to at least make things more difficult for them. And the added cherry on top is that these bollards are a damn good idea regardless of terrorism. People can always lose control over their cars by accident and swerve into a pedestrian zone like that. So these bollards should have been installed anyway at some point.

Lastly, the religion isn't the problem. It's a tool. Remove Islam from the equation and ISIS would be using something else to motivate their idiot army. Religion is just a propaganda tool. People need to understand that. They're not doing any of this out of religious reasons, because the religion and its religious leaders condemn these acts and have denounced them as un-islamic often enough.

- - - Updated - - -

Then there's nothing wrong with pointing out the number of actual Nazis is probably not breaking a thousand and if we're not supposed to be spreading hate in response to Islamic Terrorism, why do it there? Or does the left have no violent idiots and no one is going to attack random whites or Republicans to "save America from the Nazis"?

People have already justified vandalism. It's only a matter of time before assault gets justified to "fight Nazis".

Wtf? Of course a few thousand Nazis don't represent the entire USA. Do you actually think this is a challenging notion? You act like you expect Endus to react differently because of some mental image you have in your head, while all he has to do to beat your silly line of reasoning is... be consistent in not prejudicing an entire group for the deeds of a few members. How hard do you think that is?

[ParanoiD84]

Hope the police kills all suspect terrorists there, think there is a few more cowards on the run, pussies driving over children.

[Deleted]

Thanks for inviting a culture that isnt ready. Mentally stuck in the stone age.

[ParanoiD84]

These terrorist attacks always backfire anyways, people unite more and more countrys join coalition to fight terror etc, so by all means keep destroying yourself.

And their plans to get people to attack muslims everywhere is failing hard, people are showing insane amount of restraint even after all these attacks, so the losers are failing hard but i guess the cowards know that already.

[Deleted]

Seriously, how the hell did you come to that conclusion?

- - - Updated - - -


You are welcome, we gladly invite more Muslims here.

Nice fascist you are.

[Zoibert the Bear]

Welp, just found out a colleagues aunt died in the Ramblas.

Fuck this shit. It has to stop.

[Slant]

Nice fascist you are.

Only children use words they don't know the meaning of.

[Deleted]

Well, there's neo-Nazis, white supremacists, white nationalists, and a bunch of other flavors, and that's all problematic for pretty much the same reasons.

But if anyone were to claim that "right-wingers" were "bad", yes, that would be stupid. Haven't seen that happening, though. And while you might be able to dig up some idiot, it's an aberration.



As far as I know, it hasn't happened. So why make up hypothetical bullshit? Yes, attacking innocent people for being "white" or "Republican" would be "bad", but it's not happening. Not in any appreciable numbers, at least; I'll allow for legitimately crazy people.

And really, what does any of this have to do with the Barcelona attack, which is the actual topic? It sure seems like you're just trying to find a way to justify being abusive towards innocent Muslims. Well, don't.

Everything you just said Endus has been proven Wrong, Because Antifa have attacked Trump Rallies, where, unless you're implying all trump supporters are now Nazis, means they HAVE been attacking Innocent normal Right wing people.

[kamuimac]

You are welcome, we gladly invite more Muslims here.

and that why im glad i live in country which refuse to accept nazi PC rules of EU and dont take them in - no risk of being killed on saturday afternoon by a crazy "immigrant"

you can take all that you want just dont whine when they butcher you in name of .... .

[Kraenen]

You are welcome, we gladly invite more Muslims here.

Why are you glad to invite people because they're Muslim?

[Deleted]

Why are you glad to invite people because they're Muslim?

Because Racism is Good!

[Deleted]

Only children use words they don't know the meaning of.

Doesnt matter its the same logic behind it. Ultra liberals and their undemocratic mass immigration without asking their citizen first is a fascist behavior masked behind a caring face.

[Slant]

Doesnt matter its the same logic behind it. Ultra liberals and their undemocratic mass immigration without asking their citizen first is a fascist behavior masked behind a caring face.

It matters. Language is important. If you don't use language properly, you're just a babbling child that can safely be ignored, because it's very unlikely that you have put more thought into your point of view than you have in using words properly.

[Post]

Seriously, how the hell did you come to that conclusion?

Read the quote, it's bolded.

[Deleted]

It matters. Language is important. If you don't use language properly, you're just a babbling child that can safely be ignored, because it's very unlikely that you have put more thought into your point of view than you have in using words properly.

And thinking for more the one second is important aswell. Tell me how forced mass immigration is not a fascist act.

[Slant]

And thinking for more the one second is important aswell. Tell me how forced mass immigration is not a fascist act.

You're the one making the claim, you need to explain yourself. It doesn't work the other way around.

[Deleted]

Thing about stopping illegal immigration... the EU wants to stop it. It's not like any country endorses illegal immigration. It's more a practicality issue than motivation. They come across the ocean in barely suitable dingis and life boats and we can't patrol the Med closely enough to get everyone. I agree with the imprisonment for illegal immigration. However, my plan is a bit more ambitious. I want those spanish exclaves to be our new asylum centres and incidentally, the only asylum centres for North African asylum seekers. If they reach Italy, I'd send them back on the next day, no questions asked. If they want asylum, they'll have to go to those exclaves. The advantage is, if you reject them, they're already on the right side of the Med and we don't have to worry about expensive flight tickets.

What makes these two cities any different than what de facto happens today?.
The main points of access are already islands distributes along the Med. If you want to send people back somewhere, not clumping them in Morocco sounds ideal. I'm not sure how Morocco would feel about it all anyway. Say someone that never set foot in Morocco appears in Lampedusa; you fly them to Ceuta, reject them, and then place them in Morocco. If Lampedusa is also a center, and the person gets rejected you only need to fly them to Tunez, and save the plane to Ceuta. I'm not seeing the advantage in expenses.

Consider that Ceuta and Melilla are, for all purposes, normal European land. They're an administrative region of Spain with the same standing as any other in the mainland. They're EU territory, and Schengen applies (though Ceuta doesn't have an airport, so it's whatever, and Spain independently applies controls in the Melilla one).
"Asylum center" is not just a guy behind a desk processing papers. It also has the need of detention facilities. Having all the mediterranean migration concentrated in those cities would see some of the largest detention facilities know to Europe. It'd turn those cities into essentially large offshore prisons (comparisons to Guantanamo would surely surface in all kinds of media). I suspect the people of those two cities, normal European people, to not like it very much. So that's a political crisis in the making.

Also consider that the refugee crisis back then was the consequence of a migrant wave collapsing the asylum centers in Greece and Hungary. This event led to a political crisis of sorts, having several countries bitch about quotas, integration and Muslims themselves; but the actual crisis was one of too little resources put into a narrow funnel. When most of the people migrating need to pass through so very few entry points, they need be well financed or the same story may repeat.
This is, of course, solvable: throw more money in. But it's been a decades long running problem, that the outer states signatory to Schengen are overburdened and/or underfinanced. These countries end up developing programs, initiatives and strategies of their own without European funds (such as now defunct Mare Nostrum in Italy, or the several improvements in height width and surveillance of the Ceuta/Melilla fences).

On financial burdens, I also suspect Spain would request more funding to implement several integration programs. People processed in those two cities are more likely to end up trying to make a living in mainland Spain. This is not unlike today: Spain has already many thriving communities of Maghreb, Saharan, sub-Saharan and Muslim peoples. They do well enough, I think, so far. Spain hasn't developed many anti-immigration platforms (nothing like Pegida, or LePen), but this is not a permanent feature of Spanish tolerance.


I'm mentioning just some problems that I can see developing. Nothing is unsolvable. But I'm not even convinced it's well though out from the beginning.
I think the proposal would further cement the EU inner divides. You may be fine with, for instance, a two speeds Europe. But some member states are feeling like they're not equal partners. In the migration issue, this essentially reads as Northern Europe using the periphery to isolate themselves from the hardships of immigration: yes, Germany or Sweden or Denmark will happily host immigrants from all around, but they also have a filter in Spain where the first or second gen get up to speed integration-wise.
Though it's always interesting to see what people have in mind. But I suspect a more decentralized approach would be best. Perhaps, instead of burdening a member state, we should rather seek the help of Maghreb countries, and have an European center of immigration and refugee in every city along the African coast.
Turkey had a sweet deal offered to them and, long term, I see similar approaches could be made with all the Maghreb countries. Though they're on a different league than Turkey, so maybe some investment needs be made before. And eventually have the periphery of the EU not be the sharp line of the Mediterranean, but a spectrum of sorts where African countries become more and more European, or more invested in our interests.
That I would see as ambitious.

[ParanoiD84]

A Imam died in the explosive blast at the terrorist house where they planned more attacks, good old Imam lmao rest in pieces, that karma thats what you get for brainwashing people.