Where did the Horde go?

[Destinas]

It should be noted that this is supposed to basically be the "War of the Ancients" or "elf" expansion. Many of the locations on the Broken Isles deal with ancient Night Elven things, which relate directly to characters that are now part of the Alliance. Even then, lots of elven characters (Alliance AND Horde) didn't have major development. Tyrande showed up in Val'sharah and Suramar for a bit. Malfurion helped druids get to their order hall, then stood around in Val'sharah until he was captured, then went into Darkheart Thicket and the Nightmare - and he never showed up again. Vereesa shows up for hunters in their order hall until the Suramar rebellion in 7.1, where she had a "camp" of two high elves and two flags next to the Night Elves, then she was captured in a time lock spell. Shandris had a quest for hunters. Lor'themar didn't appear at all past the Broken Shore, Halduron was a hunter follower, and Rommath appeared for a second in 7.1 as well. Liadrin had, perhaps, some of the most development with WoD and Legion combined, appearing in Talador, Shattrath, Suramar, Light's Hope, DK Campaign, Exodar scenario for pallies, etc. Jarod and Maiev didn't even spend much time doing anything outside of Black Rook Hold.

This was a problem of spreading lore too thin among different classes, characters, and concepts. The setting is much more Alliance-heavy due to elves/elven ruins in Azsuna, Val'sharah, Suramar, the Broken Shore, etc. Considering that most characters that wanted to hunt down the Legion are more Alliance-themed as well, this was somewhat unavoidable. Velen has his moment to shine this expansion, along with Khadgar and the characters listed above. We've always known that the "Army of the Light" was going to be Draenei-centric, because it was brought up through Velen in the first place.

There are a few things for the future that look good for the Horde, however. They have storylines to wrap up for the leadership of the Orcs and Trolls now. If we go to the South Seas, it's entirely possible that we could encounter whatever is left of the "Darkspear Islands" that Vol'jin originally came from. Gallywix got a new, unique model - he could easily make appearances among other Goblins if we go to the Undermine (along with Gazlowe, who is far more Horde-leaning). With the introduction of the Highmountain Tauren, they could have them unite with the Tauren and Taunka (like they were going to in the Legion alpha, before that quest was removed). Sylvanas and the Forsaken have a lot more room to grow, because they are now the leading faction of the Horde, having a pre-established capital of their own.

tldr, the Horde will get their way soon enough. They have more options for improvement than the Alliance at this point, and a lot of Alliance characters have had their spotlight run out in Legion.

[The Iron Fist]

As we've seen time and time before, the faction with the least amount of love will soon do some ass kicking.

Nah. After 13 years of Horde bias, the devs got tired with it, so they had to flip it on its head. Kinda like why we got WoD... topkek

[Lane]

While I definitely agree that the story was heavily favoring the horde for a long time, that doesn't mean they have to completely abandon one side for the other. How does that make the game better? It's just shifting the focus without a net gain or improvement. Why not increase the focus and character development of both sides? Is there some kind of limit, or finite amount of writing available?

I don't see that they did. Alliance has had more attention this expansion than any other for awhile, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's more than Horde. I believe part of it is people still considering Illidan, Val'Sharah, and even Suramar as "Alliance" even though none of them are. It's basically the reverse WoD, instead of orcs it's night elves.

While I understand some Horde were upset at the DK quest to infiltrate Undercity to rescue Koltira, I actually enjoyed doing that on my BE (and I would've felt the same if it was the reverse). As an Alliance rogue I had to sneak into Stormwind and deal with hostile guards in order to get one of my artifact weapons. I haven't experienced any other class hall 'bias'.

Varian for a long time was arguably the only prominent leader of the Alliance (once he actually returned from being imprisoned), so with his death it became necessary to push others to the forefront. As far as I know, Genn Greymane hadn't done jack between the worgen starting zone and the beginning of Legion. Tyrande wasn't much better. I'm not current on the story in Legion, but last I played Anduin still wasn't doing anything (particularly frustrating when one of the excuses for killing Varian was supposedly for his character development). There does seem to be a lot of focus on Velen (who I'm actually not a fan of), but that kind of goes with the territory of returning to Argus. I don't see how you could pursue that story and not heavily involve him.

[SirCowdog]

Which sister? The one who hates the Horde with a vengeance and has been fighting against them ever since Wrath? Or the one who may not even know Sylvanas is undead?

Honestly, would it matter at this point? Getting any significant story development would be better than the virtual abandonment of the horde we've seen so far. Sylvanus is the warchief of the entire horde. The leader who should be right along side every other major character in the fight against the legion. But when's the last time we saw her do anything even remotely significant in the expansion? Stormheim? And that wasn't even about the horde OR the Legion. It was just the forsaken and Genn's stupid revenge/hater binge.

I get it, though. I'm glad the alliance are getting some story time. But FFS, leaving literally half your playerbase's story to wither on the vine is just stupid.

[Cwimge]

The horde don't belong in legion. Would you feel comfortable letting the race with a history for giving into the demonic urges and blindly following insane leaders anywhere near the legion?

[cparle87]

The problem is, what lore characters from the horde have enough significance to be there? Blizzard has systematically wrecked or abandoned every Horde character of note. We can't even get Blizzard to go anywhere with Sylvanus' story, and she's the freakin WARCHIEF. You think they're going to exhume Baine or Lolthemar from the trash bin?

Blizzard's writing has never really been top notch. But lately it's been even worse than normal. I'd honestly be surprised if Sylvanus even got an in-game interaction with her sister at some point, much less a cutscene or any time in the spotlight since they basically said "LOL @ u" to her with Genn breaking the lantern.

Which sister? The one who hates the Horde with a vengeance and has been fighting against them ever since Wrath? Or the one who may not even know Sylvanas is undead?

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, would it matter at this point? Getting any significant story development would be better than the virtual abandonment of the horde we've seen so far. Sylvanus is the warchief of the entire horde. The leader who should be right along side every other major character in the fight against the legion. But when's the last time we saw her do anything even remotely significant in the expansion? Stormheim? And that wasn't even about the horde OR the Legion. It was just the forsaken and Genn's stupid revenge/hater binge.

I get it, though. I'm glad the alliance are getting some story time. But FFS, leaving literally half your playerbase's story to wither on the vine is just stupid.

Thrall had... a couple of level 12ish quests about Ragefire Chasm, then a few quests at 60. That was all he had in all of classic. Vol'jin didn't have anything. Cairne didn't have anything. Sylvanas sent you out to Nathanos in EPL for a chain. Racial leaders not doing anything is the norm, not the exception.

Basically right now the Horde and the Alliance basically threw their hands in the air and said "Hey, these class halls seem to be doing better than we are, all you guys go join them, work together." Which turned into all the orders combining together into the Armies of Legionfall. Kinda like how the opposing Scyers and Aldor in BC teamed up to become the Shattered Sun Offensive. Or how we have characters from all races in neutral groups with the Argent Dawn. The Horde and Alliance realized they weren't the right format for this, and released their forces to join the class halls.

[yetgdhfgh]

To call it the Horde now is such a misnomer

Infact iam amazed they kept the name for as long as they did but we all know why gamewise but lorewise?

Sylvanas lorewise could call it the Sylvanas crew or someshit and who would stop her? The Orcs are a bit player now ever since they lost so many in the Siege of Orgrimmar.

[SirCowdog]

The Horde and Alliance realized they weren't the right format for this, and released their forces to join the class halls.

I would LOVE it if Blizzard finally upped and got rid of the stupid two-faction thing. It would free them up to actually tell a good story instead of the dumpster fire that keeps re-igniting every time they have to contort the 'writing' to accommodate "LOL horde vs allies herp derp!"

[cparle87]

I would LOVE it if Blizzard finally upped and got rid of the stupid two-faction thing. It would free them up to actually tell a good story instead of the dumpster fire that keeps re-igniting every time they have to contort the 'writing' to accommodate "LOL horde vs allies herp derp!"

They tried early in beta easing the faction boundaries a little. Forsaken could understand and speak common. Ended up with undead and Alliance players just spamming dumpster trash at each other constantly.

Besides, you DO realize that the Horde and Alliance have been fighting for almost three generations now. Imagine if WWII was a stalemate and Nazi Germany and its allies were still around. They'd invade a country, the Allies would move in to stop them, skirmish. Things settle down for a while. But that new skirmish simply gives the people of both groups new reasons to want to start new battles. Even in the leaders want to end the conflict they can't be everywhere to stop every member of their faction who wants to get back at the other for a past offense. Genn and Sylvanas are a prime example of that. The guy who ordered Sylvans to invade Gilneas is long dead and buried, but Genn doesn't care. What he cares about is that his home was invaded and his son was killed. He doesn't care if it was on orders or not. Sylvanas now has a dangerous enemy on her border out for her blood and she can't let that sit.

If anything, if all the Horde vs Alliance stress ended tomorrow it would make less sense than anything.

[Syegfryed]

I would LOVE it if Blizzard finally upped and got rid of the stupid two-faction thing. It would free them up to actually tell a good story instead of the dumpster fire that keeps re-igniting every time they have to contort the 'writing' to accommodate "LOL horde vs allies herp derp!"

the very pillars of this game are alliance vs horde, since warcraft 1, why they should change just because some don't give a fuck about lore?

the writing was very good until half of mop with all the "horde vs allies herp derp", the problem is not in the factions but in the devs

[Peebuddy]

Do the Horde have any representation on Argus?

Are we just there because we like splitting skulls, lootin' fools, and high-fiving each other in the background all the while the Alliance are looking around asking "Who's in charge of these ruffians"?

[ls-]

It'll prob be used later by Alliance to tell Horde that they weren't present on Argus and have no saying in something that's to come in future expansion.

Something like, "You abandoned us on Broken Shore, you didn't come to our aid on Argus, die! something something..."

[SirCowdog]

If anything, if all the Horde vs Alliance stress ended tomorrow it would make less sense than anything.

the very pillars of this game are alliance vs horde, since warcraft 1, why they should change just because some don't give a fuck about lore?

the writing was very good until half of mop with all the "horde vs allies herp derp", the problem is not in the factions but in the devs

Yeah, except that EVERY time the "war" gets interrupted by a larger threat. And every single time the Horde and Alliance realizes their personal squabbles don't make sense in light of that threat. And sometimes they recognize that they've been manipulated. It's formulaic at this point, and only continues to be a game mechanic because Blizzard would have to change their server software and databases. There is zero in-game or lore reason for the two sides to be fighting each other anymore.

The "Horde" is basically defunct, with almost no leadership. The alliance isn't in much of a better state. As was mentioned earlier, the Order Halls and Legionfall, as well as the continued hints of "The Army of the Light", are clearly the driving forces behind defending azeroth. Blizzard should just ditch the two-faction game mechanic and cram everyone into one giant pool. We're all doing the same quests and dungeons anyway. Free the story up to be told without the constraints of an outdated system.

[Deleted]

Many of the class hall storylines are heavily Alliance centered.

Name them.

[ls-]

The "Horde" is basically defunct, with almost no leadership. The alliance isn't in much of a better state. As was mentioned earlier, the Order Halls and Legionfall, as well as the continued hints of "The Army of the Light", are clearly the driving forces behind defending azeroth. Blizzard should just ditch the two-faction game mechanic and cram everyone into one giant pool. We're all doing the same quests and dungeons anyway. Free the story up to be told without the constraints of an outdated system.

I don't think they should do away w/ 2 faction system, but they should add a way to betray your faction and go wage war in the name of another one.

They could even turn it into a service if they wanted to, for instance, first faction "treason" is done via quest, all consequential ones are a paid service akin to race change.

[Deleted]

Name them.

He is probably talking about Rogue (which is for some reason really alliance focused). Maybe Priest/Pally (those two are very similar, with the pally one featuring a lot of alliance heroes. Which is not really surprising). Could be wrong tho.

But I don't think, that this is a bad thing. We had heavily horde-based questlines as well over the years.

[yetgdhfgh]

Magatha Grimetotem is inducted into the Earthen Ring and we dont hear anything from Thrall!

The Woman who killed his best friend is working for the Organization that he is or was supposed to lead!

Horde really have been sidelined this xpac the only horde activity we got was Sylvanas failing to control the Valks everything else has been a afterthought.

[Deleted]

He is probably talking about Rogue (which is for some reason really alliance focused). Maybe Priest/Pally (those two are very similar, with the pally one featuring a lot of alliance heroes. Which is not really surprising). Could be wrong tho.

But I don't think, that this is a bad thing. We had heavily horde-based questlines as well over the years.

Yeah and the Rogue questline also involves Garona. And you could also say the questline focusses on Stormwind being infiltrated and ultimately being harmed and attacked, so is that pro-Alliance really or anti-Alliance? I guess people are gonna pick whatever suits their arguments.

[Deleted]

Yeah and the Rogue questline also involves Garona. And you could also say the questline focusses on Stormwind being infiltrated and ultimately being harmed and attacked, so is that pro-Alliance really or anti-Alliance? I guess people are gonna pick whatever suits their arguments.

Well, I was just speculating what he could have meant. Didn't really talk about "anti-alliance" or "pro-alliance" - just a focus on that faction.

[cparle87]

There is zero in-game or lore reason for the two sides to be fighting each other anymore.

Besides the thousands of rank and file soldiers who have lost friends and loved ones to the other side and won't pass up and opportunity to attack the other side if they thought they could get away with it. They probably even think they'll be rewarded by their leaders for a victory. Like I said in my last post the faction leaders who have more or less learned to cooperate they cannot be everywhere.

Back in Wrath the Alliance were attacking the Scourge in Icecrown. An orc commander sees this, and sends his forces in to slaughter the Alliance from behind because he wants to. Garrosh chews him out on this, not because he disapproved of Alliance being killed, but because he was still clinging to honor at the time and considered an ambush from behind dishonorable. The rank of file of both sides are filled with people like him. One side will attack the other, who will now feel justified in attacking back, and the first side will now have martyrs to rally to the banner of.

IIRC the battlegrounds in canon are areas where conflicts like these have sparked up. And even if the faction leaders are aware of these events, they probably realize that telling their side to quit it will only last until the next time a rock is thrown.