The Fate of Xe'ra (Spoilers)

[Hammerfest]

And so luciferian narration continues.

Exactly. This guy gets it.

[Ulthane]

Or desperate times requires desperate measures. It's not like holy light never required (forced) sacrifices before

That also, hell all the things being said are quite possible honestly. Its a curve ball.

[Wildmoon]

There's a lot of talk about Turalyon's eyes, but Illidan's eyes interest me. Xe'ra talks about his original eyes like they were innately special, when the idea used to be that they were a sign of greatness (which I think you could say he already fulfilled). At first I thought it was just weird dialogue to segue into everything else, but then it occurred to me. Illidan was not the only night elf in lore to have golden eyes. Perhaps they're retconning the eye thing to have an innate meaning for the sake of characters that still have those eyes.

It was even discovered later that it's related to druidic potential since a bunch of people awakened them on by themselves later. I don't really understand Xe'ra's bamblings about the eyes.

[FelPlague]

So then Turalyon was grateful when Illidan destroyed Xera, right? If she was truly subjugating people then Turalyon would've been grateful. Yet he was quite upset, not the attitude of someone who'd been freed from enslavement.

Again though, no one else showed any signs, no one else was grateful, no one else had any reaction to the death of Xera other than Turalyon. As it stands right now, there is no evidence to support that claim. We can't even definitively say that the reactions in his eyes weren't something put in the scene just for cinematic purposes or symbolism. Hell, it could just be that Terran thought it'd be cool to put into the scene. Even the guy supposedly "marked" didn't have any shifts, his behavior was consistent with someone who was there willingly.

No, because he is a fucking light user, he does not care, notice how velen was confused like "what the fuck, why did xera do that"

[Charge me Doctor]

So then Turalyon was grateful when Illidan destroyed Xera, right? If she was truly subjugating people then Turalyon would've been grateful. Yet he was quite upset, not the attitude of someone who'd been freed from enslavement.

Again though, no one else showed any signs, no one else was grateful, no one else had any reaction to the death of Xera other than Turalyon. As it stands right now, there is no evidence to support that claim. We can't even definitively say that the reactions in his eyes weren't something put in the scene just for cinematic purposes or symbolism. Hell, it could just be that Terran thought it'd be cool to put into the scene. Even the guy supposedly "marked" didn't have any shifts, his behavior was consistent with someone who was there willingly.

They are in a war on enemy soil. For a really really long time, it's completely understandable reaction from Turalyon and Xe'ra - fighting legion and forging powerful weapons (read: purifying Illidan) is more important than their feelings or "wants". Seriously, can you imagine being in Turalyons place? Being stuck on Argus for so long, fighting partisan war, alone, without and communication with Azeroth... there comes salvation from Azeroth with Xe'ra, a powerful Na'aru and the chosen one (ugh), and what they get? A giant middle finger up their ass.

[Qualia]

Without Illidan i doubt that things would unravel in the same way and we probably would took on KJ and the Tomb with different set of heroes and in different place.

Illidan got beaten by Maev and bunch of mortals... he definitely would fail if left alone in TBC. The problem is that all of the sudden he became a powerhouse on blizzards wish due to a retcon that allow him into expansion. He never was so powerful and omnipotent as he is now, it literally came out of nowhere. For fucks sake, he got beaten by DK Arthas in warcraft, where did all this power come from?

He was having the upperhand throughout the fight with Arthas, and lost mainly because he was being Illidan - in other word, too cocky - rather than because he was the less powerful one. And he has grown more powerful since then as pointed out by Akama, with time to digest the power inside the Tomb of Sargeras. It's true he got beaten by us and Maiev, but he was virtually on his death bed by then and even so, he'd have defeated the raid if Maiev wasn't there. If we left him alone, obviously he'd have had more time to recover before starting his plan since there'd have been no one to oppose him on Outland. Even if Illidan and his DH army fail to kill KJ, he could have given Argus the Nathreza's treatment by exploding the portal, but this time the portal packed a lot more power.
(There isn't any retcon, though, unless you are using the technical definition of the word. Otherwise, there was only elaboration of TBC events to show it from other characters' perspective)

And I'm not sure about the matter in regards to fighting KJ in ToS. It was Velen who chased KJ into the portal to his ship, so with or without Illidan, we'd be following anyway (assuming we aren't so cold as to leaving Velen alone while shutting it down). Other than Illidan's keystone, there was no way for us to escape the ship / Argus. The only way for us not to step on that ship is to defeat KJ inside the Tomb, but I don't see it happening with using other heroes. Delaying assaulting the Tomb would give Sargeras / Aggramar more time to finish the Dark Pantheon so we couldn't just spend our time to build up our army either (the in-game characters don't know that, but I believe coming to Argus a week or so late, after Sargeras / Aggramar finished their job, would lead to our swift deaths under the Dark Pantheon's hands).

[Deleted]

I think it's more that Xe'ra doesn't understand that Illidan has pride in everything he's accomplished regardless of what he did for his goals. She saw Illidan's past as a tragic tale deserving nothing but sympathy and that he needed to be reforged. Illidan sees his past as what needed to be done and takes pride in the fact that he didn't hesitate to do what he felt was necessary.

I'd say Xe'ra was just naive about mortals and couldn't see why someone would take pride in something she thought was tragic. Similar to how Algalon thought of us as something that needed to be purged. Sadly for Xe'ra she didn't live long enough to have her views questioned like Algalon did.

This. This has always been why Illidan still doesn't understand what his old teacher was telling him: Illidan has never been willing to set aside his selfish pride. That's the sacrifice Cenarius meant. All of his demon hunters know more about sacrifice than Illidan ever did.

[Charge me Doctor]

And I'm not sure about the matter in regards to fighting KJ in ToS. It was Velen who chased KJ into the portal to his ship, so with or without Illidan, we'd be following anyway (assuming we aren't so cold as to leaving Velen alone while shutting it down). Other than Illidan's keystone, there was no way for us to escape the ship / Argus. The only way for us not to step on that ship is to defeat KJ inside the Tomb, but I don't see it happening with using other heroes. Delaying assaulting the Tomb would give Sargeras / Aggramar more time to finish the Dark Pantheon so we couldn't just spend our time to build up our army either (the in-game characters don't know that, but I believe coming to Argus a week or so late, after Sargeras / Aggramar finished their job, would lead to our swift deaths under the Dark Pantheon's hands).

Without Illidan we wouldn't have this plan and there wouldn't be a situation for Velen to chase KJ into the portal. This whole plan in Tomb basically included Illidan, without him we would have a different plan, different allies, different tools, different situation. If anything, without Illidan whole Legion expansion would unravel differently, without Illidan there wouldn't be a point to even send Gul'dan to our universe.

This whole expansion is built around Illidan and at this point it's pretty obvious, so nothing "bad" can happen to him and everything he does is for "good", which is bullshit in you consider what he is doing taken the context

[Selastan]

Damn thing sounded scary actually.

This reminded me of something:



That scene right there. Xe'ra was meant to be ominous, dominating. A pure force of reckoning. We are meant to feel fear here, fear of the Light. This is Blizzard's writing at its best, they are giving us something new. All the times we have seen the Light before, it is being presented as a soft, warm, peaceful force. When it is weaponized, it is presented as purifying and cleansing, righting the wrong and destroying evil. But the way Xe'ra is here, the way it dominates the background and swells larger and talks more forcefully, the way Illidan is restrained and helpless, the way the music grows louder, all of it is meant to make us afraid, for once to see what it is like to be fearful of the Light. Xe'ra isn't a savior, but a monster.

[Combatbutler]

It was even discovered later that it's related to druidic potential since a bunch of people awakened them on by themselves later. I don't really understand Xe'ra's bamblings about the eyes.

It is also quite possible, that druidic potential in this context is closely related to light affinity as well. Both deal with a fundamental part of the universe and life magic would be far closer to the light rather than the void, decay and the like.

[Ulthane]

This reminded me of something:



That scene right there. Xe'ra was meant to be ominous, dominating. A pure force of reckoning. We are meant to feel fear here, fear of the Light. This is Blizzard's writing at its best, they are giving us something new. All the times we have seen the Light before, it is being presented as a soft, warm, peaceful force. When it is weaponized, it is presented as purifying and cleansing, righting the wrong and destroying evil. But the way Xe'ra is here, the way it dominates the background and swells larger and talks more forcefully, the way Illidan is restrained and helpless, the way the music grows louder, all of it is meant to make us afraid, for once to see what it is like to be fearful of the Light. Xe'ra isn't a savior, but a monster.

You know what, I would prefer if thats the case actually.

[Selah]

No, because he is a fucking light user, he does not care, notice how velen was confused like "what the fuck, why did xera do that"

Right, even Turalyon didn't say anything about why. The only thing he was upset about was destroying Xera, it's pretty obvious why Illidan did what he did and was justified in doing so. Still does nothing to support the claim that he was being "enslaved" or "marked."

They are in a war on enemy soil. For a really really long time, it's completely understandable reaction from Turalyon and Xe'ra - fighting legion and forging powerful weapons (read: purifying Illidan) is more important than their feelings or "wants". Seriously, can you imagine being in Turalyons place? Being stuck on Argus for so long, fighting partisan war, alone, without and communication with Azeroth... there comes salvation from Azeroth with Xe'ra, a powerful Na'aru and the chosen one (ugh), and what they get? A giant middle finger up their ass.

Right, and I'm not ignoring that. There was a higher calling placed upon Illidan and he rejected it, that's incredibly frustrating thing. Still though, there's still nothing to support the idea that Xera is running around "marking" or "enslaving" anyone.

[Charge me Doctor]

That scene right there. Xe'ra was meant to be ominous, dominating. A pure force of reckoning. We are meant to feel fear here, fear of the Light. This is Blizzard's writing at its best, they are giving us something new. All the times we have seen the Light before, it is being presented as a soft, warm, peaceful force. When it is weaponized, it is presented as purifying and cleansing, righting the wrong and destroying evil. But the way Xe'ra is here, the way it dominates the background and swells larger and talks more forcefully, the way Illidan is restrained and helpless, the way the music grows louder, all of it is meant to make us afraid, for once to see what it is like to be fearful of the Light. Xe'ra isn't a savior, but a monster.

Why you people think that light was never dominating anything? Even in game we have these holy shackles that work only against undead (but for a more powerful "believer" it will work on anything, that's kinda how light works). Light is the one of most powerful "magics" of wow (remember that even from gameplay mechanics light had no resistance but all other schools had?), and it's a war that requires us to use all our resources since everything is at stake, off course Na'aru won't just sit back and use their jedi tricks to influence mortals, they (read: Xe'ra) need to act fast and make powerful weapons to win the war

- - - Updated - - -

Right, even Turalyon didn't say anything about why. The only thing he was upset about was destroying Xera, it's pretty obvious why Illidan did what he did and was justified in doing so. Still does nothing to support the claim that he was being "enslaved" or "marked."

Right, and I'm not ignoring that. There was a higher calling placed upon Illidan and he rejected it, that's incredibly frustrating thing. Still though, there's still nothing to support the idea that Xera is running around "marking" or "enslaving" anyone.

One can argue that making people believe in light is somewhat of "enslavement", which was the whole point of Illidan talking to Velen and how he blindly followed prophesy and believed in light (while ignoring the simple fact that Velen knowing shit doesn't mean that he is allowed or can change it, because... you know... if you know that millions of people have to die to move "plot" forward, and you save them... all that means is that you don't know what will happen later and you probably just fucked everything up in grand scheme of t hings).
But i agree with you, i don't see any reasons for Na'aru somehow mind-controlling Turalyon, especially considering that she was fucking shattered and her "spell" didn't wore off

[Qualia]

Without Illidan we wouldn't have this plan and there wouldn't be a situation for Velen to chase KJ into the portal. This whole plan in Tomb basically included Illidan, without him we would have a different plan, different allies, different tools, different situation. If anything, without Illidan whole Legion expansion would unravel differently, without Illidan there wouldn't be a point to even send Gul'dan to our universe.

This whole expansion is built around Illidan and at this point it's pretty obvious

I disagree. The first act of Gul'dan when he came to our Azeroth wasn't trying to steal Illidan's body - it was to open the portal in the Tomb under KJ's command. Stealing Illidan's body for Sargeras came later. So with or without Illidan, the portal would still be opened anyway, and we'd get our Legion expansion all the same. Addtionally, he doesn't impact our force that much - after he came back, he didn't turn away any of our ally, neither did he gain us any other. We'd be facing the Tomb with the same force we have, minus Illidan. Worse even, without Illidan - which means Gul'dan wouldn't be breaking into the Illidan's jail - the DHs might not be freed and our force would end up being weaker. Similar argument can be applied to our tools. I know of butterfly effect, but can you think of any likely scenario in which we'd have a more powerful force against the Tomb than our current army without Illidan being involved in this expansion given the same amount of time for preparation (since if we take longer to assault Argus, Sargeras'd finish his Dark Pantheon and it'll be doomsday for Azeroth anyway)?

And we'd have to get into the Tomb no matter what as the portal can't be closed off otherwise. If we get into the Tomb and make our way towards the portal, we will see KJ at FA, and unless we can somehow trap KJ there and defeat both him and FA together, he'd retreat back to the portal. Velen will chase after him for revenge. It will end up the same.

[Wildmoon]

It is also quite possible, that druidic potential in this context is closely related to light affinity as well. Both deal with a fundamental part of the universe and life magic would be far closer to the light rather than the void, decay and the like.

The thing is she talked like it's something that marked Illidan as the chosen one when it clearly wasn't because it was not exclusive to Illidan nor it is something that you can not obtain by just being good at druidism. Dunno if Xe'ra was just stupid or what.

[yuca247]

ok I read about half the posts and still see no one stating the obvious. Xe'ra trying to force Illidan does NOT equal the Light as a whole is evil or corrupted. Like anything else, it's the individual or entity with the flaw.

The light is still the light.

Right after Illidan destroys Xe'ra I think Blizzard knew people were going to automatically think the Light is just as evil as anything else so they had Velen with the following lines:

"The light does not Die with the Prime Naaru. It shines within each of us."

"The Light that shone within her heart can yet be a source of strength for our cause"

"Ah yes, I sense the Light within these fragments. Do not lose hope."

What interests me more is this line by Velen:

"I wish Illidan had found another way to refuse her… but I too have had choices imposed upon me by the naaru."

Not choice but choices I wonder what specifically Velen was referring to?

[Stormspark]

So the light is evil, she trying to force the light upon him.
Good job that Illidan stopped her before he got corrupted by the light, and corruption it is when it is forced onto ppl.

(also good that blizzard saw that a new jezus with pointy ears would not be that good of a plotline going forward)

I don't think Xe'ra is so much evil as desperate, and looking at the big picture/not caring what it takes to get there. Just like Illidan really.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ionedExtremist

I am honestly starting to wonder if the Void Lords are fallen Naaru now though.

[Qualia]

"I wish Illidan had found another way to refuse her… but I too have had choices imposed upon me by the naaru."

Not choice but choices I wonder what specifically Velen was referring to?

Probably his various escapes, I believe? He might have been affected by what Illidan said, and thought that he could have put in more effort to fight back the Legion other than just focus on retreating. Sure, he and the Draenei probably would have died (or at least majority of them) if he had done so, but given the current result (many worlds and their inhabitants - if available - were destroyed because of the Draenei tried to settle there during their retreat), I guess Velen wouldn't be happy that they kept running away.

[Charge me Doctor]

I disagree. The first act of Gul'dan when he came to our Azeroth wasn't trying to steal Illidan's body - it was to open the portal in the Tomb under KJ's command. Stealing Illidan's body for Sargeras came later. So with or without Illidan, the portal would still be opened anyway, and we'd get our Legion expansion all the same. Addtionally, he doesn't impact our force that much - after he came back, he didn't turn away any of our ally, neither did he gain us any other. We'd be facing the Tomb with the same force we have, minus Illidan. Worse even, without Illidan - which means Gul'dan wouldn't be breaking into the Illidan's jail - the DHs might not be freed and our force would end up being weaker. Similar argument can be applied to our tools. I know of butterfly effect, but can you think of any likely scenario in which we'd have a more powerful force against the Tomb than our current army without Illidan being involved in this expansion given the same amount of time for preparation?

And we'd have to get into the Tomb no matter what as the portal can't be closed off otherwise. If we get into the Tomb and make our way towards the portal, we will see KJ at FA, and unless we can somehow trap KJ there and defeat both him and FA together, he'd retreat back to the portal. Velen will chase after him for revenge. It will end up the same.

No, removing a character from a plot is not equal to erasing his mentions from the script, it would be a completely different script. How powerful is our tools is up to blizzard, we could definitely use gnome&goblin-designed spaceships in a giant EVE-style combat near Azeroth instead of... you know, DHs. Blizzard decided Legion to be Illidan expansion, wrote a script around it, it wouldn't unravel the same way if we would not have Illidan and DHs on our side, it would unravel differently, but we would still win because of how things work - we always win, that's the whole point of the game, it's the case of how we win.

[Selastan]

Why you people think that light was never dominating anything? Even in game we have these holy shackles that work only against undead (but for a more powerful "believer" it will work on anything, that's kinda how light works). Light is the one of most powerful "magics" of wow (remember that even from gameplay mechanics light had no resistance but all other schools had?), and it's a war that requires us to use all our resources since everything is at stake, off course Na'aru won't just sit back and use their jedi tricks to influence mortals, they (read: Xe'ra) need to act fast and make powerful weapons to win the war

It has always been that way, but never outright presented like that. The way the writing and game mechanics work, the Light is purely good. Even the Scarlet Crusade are presented as being just 'misguided' by their leader. If you read between the lines, you can see the Light as just another form of magic, with good and bad users alike. But this, to my knowledge, has never been the focus of a scene. No Light user has ever been as outright menacing as Xe'ra is in this scene, and Xe'ra is a NAARU, the embodiment of Light, the purest form.

Come to think of it, this got me thinking. What are the Light's goals, anyway? What will the naaru do after the Legion is defeated? Why are they so interested in lending aid to us lowly mortals? Methinks they might return to ask us a favor, that's why Xe'ra wanted Illidan so badly. The Light is up to something, and Xe'ra wanted Illidan to be indebted to their cause. There is a reason that we are always referred to as 'champions'. Champions are the banner carriers, ones who spread ideals and become the face of a cause. The Light wants us to revel in our championing, to celebrate it, so we don't notice that championing is just another form of servitude. If Paladins are knights, the Naaru are their kings.